Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 OK I will give this its own topic. Almost everyone seems to agree Kyle Williams has been a beast as our NT this year. A number add "he's too small for an NFL NT, let's move him to DE and draft.....(or sign......) Please comment on responsibilities of NT vs DE and difficulty or ease of making the transition for a DL at the NFL level. My sense is the responsibilities are sufficiently different that it's not a slam-dunk transition Sorta like G to T on the OL or LT to RT on the OL, enough different requirements it's not a slam-dunk that a great LG will make a great LT Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) KWs season really took off once we went back to the 4-3 and his responsibilities would be more similiar at DE than NT and IMO allow him to be more successful. I dont think there are any NTs in the draft but may be a few FAs. I think if we are serious about the 34 we should add a true NT so KW can play DE. Edited January 2, 2011 by Thoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agardin Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) KWs season really took off once we went back to the 4-3 and his responsibilities would be more similiar at DE and IMO allow him to be more successful. I dont think there are any NTs in the draft but may be a few FAs. I think if we are serious about the 34 we should add a true NT so KW can play DE. Troup is the NT Edited January 2, 2011 by agardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It's either a problem or an opportunity when the best player on your defense is a "tweener" that doesn't really fit the traditional concept. We'll see what Edwards does with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steampunk Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Please comment on responsibilities of NT vs DE and difficulty or ease of making the transition Well I can give a few recent examples. Ryan Pickett was a DT for the Packers old 4-3 front. A couple of years ago, they got Dom Capers as defensive coordinator, switched to the 34, and Pickett became the nose tackle. Last year they drafted B.J Raji. He took over at NT and Pickett -- all 340 lbs of him -- has played DE since. Dolphins NT Jason Ferguson got suspended for the first 10 games of this season. During training camp and preseason, the Fish moved Randy Starks from DE to NT. Starks is a good lineman, and he's played DT for them before. His backup NT, Paul Soliai, decided to shake his previous lazy/bust label and came on strong, earning the NT job, outright. Gotta love those contract years! Meanwhile, Ferguson decided to retire. Starks is back at his DE job. Shaun Rogers has gone to a few pro bowls as NT for the Browns. Last year, he broke his leg. Rogers' backup, Ataba Rubin, took the job and performed well. 350 lb Rogers now plays alongside him as a DE. Except on passing downs. I think Rubin usually waddles off the field, Rogers slides into the middle and they run another pass rusher out to fill the empty DE spot. Similar story with the Baltimore Ravens 34 front and NT/DT/DE/Pastry Chef Haloti Ngata playing at End, alongside Kelly Gregg. Of course the Bills played all the above teams this season, so we've seen these fronts and position swaps in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well I can give a few recent examples. Ryan Pickett was a DT for the Packers old 4-3 front. A couple of years ago, they got Dom Capers as defensive coordinator, switched to the 34, and Pickett became the nose tackle. Last year they drafted B.J Raji. He took over at NT and Pickett -- all 340 lbs of him -- has played DE since. Dolphins NT Jason Ferguson got suspended for the first 10 games of this season. During training camp and preseason, the Fish moved Randy Starks from DE to NT. Starks is a good lineman, and he's played DT for them before. His backup NT, Paul Soliai, decided to shake his previous lazy/bust label and came on strong, earning the NT job, outright. Gotta love those contract years! Meanwhile, Ferguson decided to retire. Starks is back at his DE job. Shaun Rogers has gone to a few pro bowls as NT for the Browns. Last year, he broke his leg. Rogers' backup, Ataba Rubin, took the job and performed well. 350 lb Rogers now plays alongside him as a DE. Except on passing downs. I think Rubin usually waddles off the field, Rogers slides into the middle and they run another pass rusher out to fill the empty DE spot. Similar story with the Baltimore Ravens 34 front and NT/DT/DE/Pastry Chef Haloti Ngata playing at End, alongside Kelly Gregg. Of course the Bills played all the above teams this season, so we've seen these fronts and position swaps in action. Good examples! They kinda go along with what Ive been saying in regards to which DLineman we should draft. Dont worry about what scheme they supposedly "fit" in. Get the biggest, nastiest playmaker who can throw guys around and make some plays. Doesnt matter the scheme, doesnt matter the player's fit. Get the best guys out there and let them work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well I can give a few recent examples. Ryan Pickett was a DT for the Packers old 4-3 front. A couple of years ago, they got Dom Capers as defensive coordinator, switched to the 34, and Pickett became the nose tackle. Last year they drafted B.J Raji. He took over at NT and Pickett -- all 340 lbs of him -- has played DE since. Dolphins NT Jason Ferguson got suspended for the first 10 games of this season. During training camp and preseason, the Fish moved Randy Starks from DE to NT. Starks is a good lineman, and he's played DT for them before. His backup NT, Paul Soliai, decided to shake his previous lazy/bust label and came on strong, earning the NT job, outright. Gotta love those contract years! Meanwhile, Ferguson decided to retire. Starks is back at his DE job. Shaun Rogers has gone to a few pro bowls as NT for the Browns. Last year, he broke his leg. Rogers' backup, Ataba Rubin, took the job and performed well. 350 lb Rogers now plays alongside him as a DE. Except on passing downs. I think Rubin usually waddles off the field, Rogers slides into the middle and they run another pass rusher out to fill the empty DE spot. Similar story with the Baltimore Ravens 34 front and NT/DT/DE/Pastry Chef Haloti Ngata playing at End, alongside Kelly Gregg. Of course the Bills played all the above teams this season, so we've seen these fronts and position swaps in action. Another excellent post, Steampunk. Good examples! They kinda go along with what Ive been saying in regards to which DLineman we should draft. Dont worry about what scheme they supposedly "fit" in. Get the biggest, nastiest playmaker who can throw guys around and make some plays. Doesnt matter the scheme, doesnt matter the player's fit. Get the best guys out there and let them work. You and me both, Doc. I hate to repeat myself again but get the best talent. If you have great players, you will figure out a way to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I would like to see the Bills try to go to a front of Kyle Williams-Troup-Carrington Troup has played better and better as the year has gone on I think that they should try to get him on the field at the same time as Williams. Carrington has also come on strong at the end there is definitely a need to get him on the field more. I would like to see the Bills go out in free agency and get a quality backup NT. Not saying we need to get a top tier guy but a guy that can at least man the position a few snaps a game and help fill in in case of injury. A good way to help the D-line would be to find a way to get Troup and Williams on the field at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Troup is the NT [/quo Troup is a NT yes but aren't we always trying to improve our team either through the draft, FA, or other teams junk. So what would be so wrong to bring in the NT from Miami the rotation thing with him and troup would be an improvement along with williams in on everydown big run stop improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkc Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 My guess is, he is used all over the D line next year bases on matchup , down and distance. Passing downs he is in the middle for sure. Eitehr way if Troupe develops and they end with an anchor D end in the draft to join Carriington and Edwars they should turn a weekness into a plus unit. By the way I am all for bringing in the Miamy Nt as well. Chan sure seems to like him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Guys tend to get hurt over the course of a 16 (or 18) game season - I see no problem in drafting even another big DT (maybe Stanford's Sione Fua ? ) in round 3 or 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 My guess is, he is used all over the D line next year bases on matchup , down and distance. Passing downs he is in the middle for sure. Eitehr way if Troupe develops and they end with an anchor D end in the draft to join Carriington and Edwars they should turn a weekness into a plus unit. By the way I am all for bringing in the Miamy Nt as well. Chan sure seems to like him . Most good D Lineman are moved around. And most good D Coordinators know how to move their best Linemen around to get them the best match-ups. For a recent example, see how Belichick used and shifted Wilfork around when we played the Pats last week. More reason the entire "But does he fit our scheme?" argument is ridiculous. Teams rarely stick to their base D even half the time, and players are moved around frequently. Just get the best talent possible on the roster, then get those guys on the field. I dont care how or where they are lined up. Id also like to see us snag that NT from Miami. But I dont think it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well I can give a few recent examples. Ryan Pickett was a DT for the Packers old 4-3 front. A couple of years ago, they got Dom Capers as defensive coordinator, switched to the 34, and Pickett became the nose tackle. Last year they drafted B.J Raji. He took over at NT and Pickett -- all 340 lbs of him -- has played DE since. Dolphins NT Jason Ferguson got suspended for the first 10 games of this season. During training camp and preseason, the Fish moved Randy Starks from DE to NT. Starks is a good lineman, and he's played DT for them before. His backup NT, Paul Soliai, decided to shake his previous lazy/bust label and came on strong, earning the NT job, outright. Gotta love those contract years! Meanwhile, Ferguson decided to retire. Starks is back at his DE job. Shaun Rogers has gone to a few pro bowls as NT for the Browns. Last year, he broke his leg. Rogers' backup, Ataba Rubin, took the job and performed well. 350 lb Rogers now plays alongside him as a DE. Except on passing downs. I think Rubin usually waddles off the field, Rogers slides into the middle and they run another pass rusher out to fill the empty DE spot. Similar story with the Baltimore Ravens 34 front and NT/DT/DE/Pastry Chef Haloti Ngata playing at End, alongside Kelly Gregg. Of course the Bills played all the above teams this season, so we've seen these fronts and position swaps in action. Thanks, Steampunk. This is exactly the sort of info I was looking for. Really appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Why so much love for Carrington? Don't get me wrong there is a lot of potential there, but he only has one sack and a handful of tackles. I think we all think he looks the part, but until I see him dominate a series I am not sold on him being a starter just yet. Put in a rookie 1st rounder like Dareus or Fairley and we have something. Carrington at this point shouldn't play over Stroud other than for experience. Williams-Troupe-Dareus is a young talented front three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well, KW better be able to play de.... and I think he can.... a hell of a lot better than NT Bills biggest need (no pun intended) is a big fat slob at NT. Now, that is not to say the Bills select a NT first, or even second (unless it's obvious there is one avaialable). Those 330 lb. types seem to get drafted in rd. 3 and beyond. But...a competent fat slob in the middle of the D would cure a lot for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Why so much love for Carrington? Don't get me wrong there is a lot of potential there, but he only has one sack and a handful of tackles. I think we all think he looks the part, but until I see him dominate a series I am not sold on him being a starter just yet. Put in a rookie 1st rounder like Dareus or Fairley and we have something. Carrington at this point shouldn't play over Stroud other than for experience. Williams-Troupe-Dareus is a young talented front three. we have all seen flashes of what he can do and it leads us to make an educated guess that with a real nice off season and training camp he can make that next step and be a starter on this line. the post up near the top was one of the more informed posts i've read on here in a while. we just need playmakers on this defense both on the line and in our lb corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts