AllDayADay Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 When you look at the Bills defense, I think this season has proven that one position in particular is in desperate need of help, Linebackers. I think it pretty amazing that we look "ok" some of the time. Think about the Bills LBs compared to any other team and who would start on another team. I would say Poz and Moats, and maybe Coleman and Maybin would be the only ones to make another good defensive team's roster. Its a desperate need for this team and I know Buddy Nix thinks the same. We better hope the LB draft class is a good one and some good FA are out there. Torbor, Ayodele, Ellson are not going to cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Nice one I'm sure you will get a million responses. Maybin is better than Torbor. Haha. Good one. Way to hide the nature of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Keep poz, moats, coleman, davis, Kelsay, and batten. Draft LB heavily and add a free agent or two. Bye bye Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) Maybe someone can help? I'd like to imbed the old, silent black and white movie clip of the defenders of a castle pouring cauldrons of hot lead onto the teeming crowds below. It may have been "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" before Charles Laughton from 1939 but I can't find the video possibly Lon Chaney Sr? It just seems to fit in this thread for humor, with no disrespect intended to any poster. Edited December 8, 2010 by ConradDobler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 When you look at the Bills defense, I think this season has proven that one position in particular is in desperate need of help, Linebackers. I think it pretty amazing that we look "ok" some of the time. Think about the Bills LBs compared to any other team and who would start on another team. I would say Poz and Moats, and maybe Coleman and Maybin would be the only ones to make another good defensive team's roster. Its a desperate need for this team and I know Buddy Nix thinks the same. We better hope the LB draft class is a good one and some good FA are out there. Torbor, Ayodele, Ellson are not going to cut it. Maybin?! are you nuts?! He can barely get on the get on the field with the worst linebackers in the League. Moats has potential and poz would be a backup on most teams. I have been hoping that poz will be elite but he is way too inconsistant, doesn't hit hard and makes his tackles way down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 When you look at the Bills defense, I think this season has proven that one position in particular is in desperate need of help, Linebackers. I think it pretty amazing that we look "ok" some of the time. Think about the Bills LBs compared to any other team and who would start on another team. I would say Poz and Moats, and maybe Coleman and Maybin would be the only ones to make another good defensive team's roster. Its a desperate need for this team and I know Buddy Nix thinks the same. We better hope the LB draft class is a good one and some good FA are out there. Torbor, Ayodele, Ellson are not going to cut it. Batten and Davis going down did not help. Agreed that Ellison is not a 3 - 4 backer. Moats looks like a player. If Batten had gotten on the field, he would have been good too. Andra Davis is a stud, on the wrong side of his career, but a stud. LB is not a good position to have a lot of injuries if you run a 3 - 4 . OLB will be addressed in the draft I am sure. Doesn't really matter, as there probably won't be a season next year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ayodele got knocked on his can like a girl by Peterson on the goal line. A real linebacker would have at least stood him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills99999 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Maybin?! are you nuts?! He can barely get on the get on the field with the worst linebackers in the League. Moats has potential and poz would be a backup on most teams. I have been hoping that poz will be elite but he is way too inconsistant, doesn't hit hard and makes his tackles way down the field. Why does everybody keep crapping on Maybin? Just because we wasted a first pick on him, he makes too much money and he does not belong in the NFL does not mean his mother does not love him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Why does everybody keep crapping on Maybin? Just because we wasted a first pick on him, he makes too much money and he does not belong in the NFL does not mean his mother does not love him I have to admit I enjoyed this post. Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills99999 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I have to admit I enjoyed this post. Good one! That does not make up for the fact I cried myself to sleep the other night when you called me a "moron" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 When you look at the Bills defense, I think this season has proven that one position in particular is in desperate need of help, Linebackers. I think it pretty amazing that we look "ok" some of the time. Think about the Bills LBs compared to any other team and who would start on another team. I would say Poz and Moats, and maybe Coleman and Maybin would be the only ones to make another good defensive team's roster. Its a desperate need for this team and I know Buddy Nix thinks the same. We better hope the LB draft class is a good one and some good FA are out there. Torbor, Ayodele, Ellson are not going to cut it. Moats would start on another team? Which one? At best he is ST and back up. He shows some potential though. Poz is legit. Davis can pay the run. Torbor is a good backup. Coleman is a ST/ backup like Moats. Maybin will be lucky to even make the Bills next season. Ellison, Ayodele and Kelsey need to all go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 That does not make up for the fact I cried myself to sleep the other night when you called me a "moron" Now. Now. Now. I didn't call you a moron. I asked you if you WERE a moron. Big difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 OK... Linebackers are a glaring weakness. However, they are not the biggest single need on defense. If you are running a 3-4 and want one that can't be moved on easily, you MUST have a big fat nasty NT. The Bills don't have one. It's not a knock on Kyle williams... OK he's nasty, but at NT 1 out of three is bad (not big & fat enough). Get a big fat nasty NT and slide Williams over to DE... then he'll be be big and nasty... and you don't want the fat at DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 OK... Linebackers are a glaring weakness. However, they are not the biggest single need on defense. If you are running a 3-4 and want one that can't be moved on easily, you MUST have a big fat nasty NT. The Bills don't have one. It's not a knock on Kyle williams... OK he's nasty, but at NT 1 out of three is bad (not big & fat enough). Get a big fat nasty NT and slide Williams over to DE... then he'll be be big and nasty... and you don't want the fat at DE. Isn't that what Troup was drafted for? Maybe next year he will grow into the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Draft stud passrushing DE (Bowers,Quinn)and MLB, start Troup, switch to 4-3 problem solved. 3-4 is over rated as players make the difference not schemes and this team is more suited for 4-3. Our best defensive player is better suited as an under DT. Troup could be the space eater in a 4-3 with Stroud and Edwards spelling them. Starting lineup DL: Bowers or Quinn, Williams, Troup,(Kelsay/Carrington/Johnson) LB: Poz/MLB/Torbor or FA upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I think Merriman's our best LB. Oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I think Merriman's our best LB. Oh wait. Merriman was brought in to lock down the IR LB position after Kawika was dumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 When you look at the Bills defense, I think this season has proven that one position in particular is in desperate need of help, Linebackers. I think it pretty amazing that we look "ok" some of the time. Think about the Bills LBs compared to any other team and who would start on another team. I would say Poz and Moats, and maybe Coleman and Maybin would be the only ones to make another good defensive team's roster. Its a desperate need for this team and I know Buddy Nix thinks the same. We better hope the LB draft class is a good one and some good FA are out there. Torbor, Ayodele, Ellson are not going to cut it. I think the most over-looked LB need on this team is ILB. I like Poz, but they need another player to put next to him on the inside. Basically Andre Davis' replacement. I do think they need a player at OLB who can play the run and rush the passer - a blue chip player - but I think after getting one of those, we'd be OK. Moats looks like he's worthy of more playing time. Battan looked good before he got hurt and is very athletic. Kelsey is Kelsey. Maybin deserves another offseason and training camp at least. Coleman has potential and should get another offseason. On the inside however, we have Poz and Davis. We could use 2 or 3 new players at ILB depending on Davis' availability for next year. At the very least, if Davis goes down again next year, there should be a player who can actually fill his role come in for him instead of another Keith Ellison sighting or Ayodele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Merriman was brought in the lock down the IR LB position after Kawika was dumped. HAHA....ughhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Draft stud passrushing DE (Bowers,Quinn)and MLB, start Troup, switch to 4-3 problem solved. 3-4 is over rated as players make the difference not schemes and this team is more suited for 4-3. Our best defensive player is better suited as an under DT. Troup could be the space eater in a 4-3 with Stroud and Edwards spelling them. Starting lineup DL: Bowers or Quinn, Williams, Troup,(Kelsay/Carrington/Johnson) LB: Poz/MLB/Torbor or FA upgrade I don't have a problem with the schemes they run. 3-4 or 4-3 is fine. I think the real issue is they should be playing a two-gap defense instead of the one-gap we played under Jauran. I actually think it'll help the team out in the future to be able to play both 3-4 and 4-3. I like being able to give teams the 3-4 under look (one-gap) at times while also being able to go with a 4-3 and 3-4 two-gap look. Going to a 4-3 doesn't hide the fact that our LBs are still crap for the most part and need to be upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 If you want to improve the linebackers, improve the defensive line. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 If you want to improve the linebackers, improve the defensive line. It's that simple. I don't think that our d-line is all that bad. I think our LBs just suck...and that means Poz too. Don't give me that "he's a top 5 LB bullsht" because you and I know he's not in the same league with a Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllDayADay Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 Nice one I'm sure you will get a million responses. Maybin is better than Torbor. Haha. Good one. Way to hide the nature of the post. Ok to defend my post now. The reason I say Maybin is that he is 22 YEARS OLD!!!!! I bet anyone right now that if he was released, there would be 5-10 teams picking him up as a pass rusher. Torbor cant hold the edge (the main responsibly of an olb playing a 3-4). And Moats? Are you serious? This kid is a stud, trust me. This is a classic pittsburgh pick. Small school Olb that needs to get bigger and stronger in the future and will be a beast! Remember James Harrison, played ST first 3 years and then all of a sudden.. BOOM.. dominant pass rusher. Just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) Linebackers? What linebackers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr3UFJjNXTI Edited December 8, 2010 by bmur66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) Ok to defend my post now. The reason I say Maybin is that he is 22 YEARS OLD!!!!! I bet anyone right now that if he was released, there would be 5-10 teams picking him up as a pass rusher. Torbor cant hold the edge (the main responsibly of an olb playing a 3-4). And Moats? Are you serious? This kid is a stud, trust me. This is a classic pittsburgh pick. Small school Olb that needs to get bigger and stronger in the future and will be a beast! Remember James Harrison, played ST first 3 years and then all of a sudden.. BOOM.. dominant pass rusher. Just saying.... What does age have to do with anything? Brandon Graham of the Eagles is also 22 in his rookie year and already has 3 sacks and 13 sacks on the season. Aaron Maybin in his CAREER has 15 tackles and 0 sacks. Brandon Graham has more sacks and almost as many tackles as a backup and both are the same age. Brandon Graham is the same age and has less NFL experience than Maybin. You guys need to stop making lame excuses. Edited December 8, 2010 by DreReed83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I don't think that our d-line is all that bad. I think our LBs just suck...and that means Poz too. Don't give me that "he's a top 5 LB bullsht" because you and I know he's not in the same league with a Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis. I'm not saying the LBs the Bills have are good. But in a 3-4 defense you need linemen that aren't just "not all that bad" they need to be dominant. Once you have that dominant line, which is harder to come by, then you fill in the blanks behind it. LBs are not hard to come by in the NFL. Dominant lineman in the 3-4 defense are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ok to defend my post now. The reason I say Maybin is that he is 22 YEARS OLD!!!!! I bet anyone right now that if he was released, there would be 5-10 teams picking him up as a pass rusher. Torbor cant hold the edge (the main responsibly of an olb playing a 3-4). There are plenty of 22 year olds that can't play DE in the NFL right along with Maybin. Only one team can pick him up at a time. Do you seriously think Maybin is going to get 5 to 10 more chances to prove he can't get it done? Put it this way, what would you trade to get Vernon Gholston on the Bills? Add: Gholston actually has a thicker body type than Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills99999 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Now. Now. Now. I didn't call you a moron. I asked you if you WERE a moron. Big difference! You still made me cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Linebackers? What linebackers. youtube.com/watch?v=Zr3UFJjNXTI Watch Poz on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills99999 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ok to defend my post now. The reason I say Maybin is that he is 22 YEARS OLD!!!!! I bet anyone right now that if he was released, there would be 5-10 teams picking him up as a pass rusher. Torbor cant hold the edge (the main responsibly of an olb playing a 3-4). And Moats? Are you serious? This kid is a stud, trust me. This is a classic pittsburgh pick. Small school Olb that needs to get bigger and stronger in the future and will be a beast! Remember James Harrison, played ST first 3 years and then all of a sudden.. BOOM.. dominant pass rusher. Just saying.... NOBODY is going to pick up Maybin. All they have to do is watch his film-every play getting blown backwards, not being able to come off a block...All he does is run arould all confused, and then jump in on somebody else's stop at the last minute Moats is also 22 and he is a much better player than Maybin...And Moats came from I-AA James Madison I'm not saying the LBs the Bills have are good. But in a 3-4 defense you need linemen that aren't just "not all that bad" they need to be dominant. Once you have that dominant line, which is harder to come by, then you fill in the blanks behind it. LBs are not hard to come by in the NFL. Dominant lineman in the 3-4 defense are. I miss Ted Washington I loved that fat bastard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllDayADay Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 NOBODY is going to pick up Maybin. All they have to do is watch his film-every play getting blown backwards, not being able to come off a block...All he does is run arould all confused, and then jump in on somebody else's stop at the last minute Moats is also 22 and he is a much better player than Maybin...And Moats came from I-AA James Madison You guys are all missing the point. Hey I wanted to take Brandon Graham becuase i thought we needed de/lb help so bad. Graham has a pro-ready body. Ive seen him this year get thrown around as well. Maybin came into this league as 2-3 project, Im not trying to defend this guy, but we all knew what we were getting ourselves into when the Bills made this pick. Maybin has a different body type than both those guys. I dont think Jason Taylor made a hug impact as a rookie with that same body type. Maybin would get picked up by a team with strong leaders and good blitz schemes (Ravens,Jets) and he would make some plays. And on the AP play its Mckelvin who doesn't contain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 You guys are all missing the point. Hey I wanted to take Brandon Graham becuase i thought we needed de/lb help so bad. Graham has a pro-ready body. Ive seen him this year get thrown around as well. Maybin came into this league as 2-3 project, Im not trying to defend this guy, but we all knew what we were getting ourselves into when the Bills made this pick. Maybin has a different body type than both those guys. I dont think Jason Taylor made a hug impact as a rookie with that same body type. Maybin would get picked up by a team with strong leaders and good blitz schemes (Ravens,Jets) and he would make some plays. And on the AP play its Mckelvin who doesn't contain. He did ? Really ? If so, the (previous) FO was even more idiotic than I thought. If he was a project, he should have been drafted in a latter round. And we are not a team that can afford luxury first round picks. We needed and continue to need players that can contribute either right away or latest by year 2. Maybin has done neither. If his body type is not prototypical, he should have worked at it in the past off-season. Why does he need two off-seasons to do that ? To your final point, as a high draft pick, he should develop into one of the leaders on the team. If you are so confident that another team will see his value and use him better, I am sure Nix will get a decent draft pick in exchange. Right ? Seeing what little he has accomplished so far, I doubt any GM does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Keep poz, moats, coleman, davis, Kelsay, and batten. Draft LB heavily and add a free agent or two. Bye bye Maybin. Davis will be 33 next season and has missed plenty of games in 09-10. I'd draft LB heavy, if they weren't so poor at QB, OT, TE, and now perhaps CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) I don't have a problem with the schemes they run. 3-4 or 4-3 is fine. I think the real issue is they should be playing a two-gap defense instead of the one-gap we played under Jauran. I actually think it'll help the team out in the future to be able to play both 3-4 and 4-3. I like being able to give teams the 3-4 under look (one-gap) at times while also being able to go with a 4-3 and 3-4 two-gap look. Going to a 4-3 doesn't hide the fact that our LBs are still crap for the most part and need to be upgraded. I agree about crappy LBs but to play a hybrid look we'd have to have a hybrid OLB/DE pass rusher not named Kelsay! If we drafted a player such as Quinn or if Merriman returns to form and can play a Charles Haley type role then we may have something. But regardless with this type defense, two-gap style will not fit the strength of players we have and then instead of upgrading LB's we'd be upgrading our whole D-line as well setting us back another 2-3 years. Edited December 8, 2010 by bluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Linebackers? What linebackers. youtube.com/watch?v=Zr3UFJjNXTI Interesting video. 5 man front, we were looking pass and they executed a run perfectly. 1. Kelsey the OLB was the 5th pass rusher. He blew containment, took a soft wide outside rush and got blown out. Peterson read that block and went wide instead of between the tackles, probably thoight he could easily run over the CB. 2. McKelvin did not read the play at all (his football sense is lacking) and he followed the WR, taking himself out of the play. 3. Poz was playing pass, made the read from ILB, then took a very bad angle to Peterson who is just too fast for that mistake. 4. Whitner and Byrd were way too deep as usual so there was no safety help. Minnesota executed perfectly and had the talent in Peterson to turn a 6 yard play into a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Why does everybody keep crapping on Maybin? Just because we wasted a first pick on him, he makes too much money and he does not belong in the NFL does not mean his mother does not love him While I would agree that it isn't the player's fault in which round he gets drafted, and that he shouldn't be blamed for "not playing like a first round pick (Whitner, for example, who is a perfectly good player but not on the level of a first rounder), the thing about Maybin is that even if he had been a free agent signing, he's just not good enough to play in the NFL. And had he been just a free agent signing, he'd have been cut looooong ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Davis will be 33 next season and has missed plenty of games in 09-10. I'd draft LB heavy, if they weren't so poor at QB, OT, TE, and now perhaps CB. Davis is on the downside of his career, but was a decent LB when he was healthy this year. I disagree that they are "poor" at QB and CB, however, I agree with your evaluation of our talent at OT and TE. Definitely need to address those areas in the offseason; probably spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on an OT. Hopefully they can address TE through free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Interesting video. 5 man front, we were looking pass and they executed a run perfectly. 1. Kelsey the OLB was the 5th pass rusher. He blew containment, took a soft wide outside rush and got blown out. Peterson read that block and went wide instead of between the tackles, probably thoight he could easily run over the CB. 2. McKelvin did not read the play at all (his football sense is lacking) and he followed the WR, taking himself out of the play. 3. Poz was playing pass, made the read from ILB, then took a very bad angle to Peterson who is just too fast for that mistake. 4. Whitner and Byrd were way too deep as usual so there was no safety help. Minnesota executed perfectly and had the talent in Peterson to turn a 6 yard play into a TD. You didn't mention Stroud who, along with Kelsay, opened up a hole big enough for the Rockettes to high kick in formation through. Still, it looks like Posluszny was supposed to read and fill that gap, but he grossly overplays to his right, to the point where he seeks out and even engages with a lineman. WTF? He compounds that by taking a ridiculously bad angle to Peterson and ends up leaving his jock on the field. Whitner comes up hard and runs directly into the path of the WR, making it as easy as possible for the WR to chip him out of the play. So, that's epic fail on all 3 levels. Of course, McKelvin is playing the WR and by the time he realizes its a run, it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qdawg in philly Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 If you want to improve the linebackers, improve the defensive line. It's that simple. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qdawg in philly Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 We have to get a whole lot bigger and stronger on the dline! I gotta a good look at the ravens d when they played the steelers! Mendenhall rushed for 100+ on us, but couldn't do sh*t with baltimore! Reason being, the are big and strong up front! They contain very well which allows their lb to make plays! Also the ravens lb know how to get off blocks! The bills lb don't, bottom line! But indeed we do need some big, strong, and physical lb'ers! Stroud is done! He can't contain! Edwards is average! Kyle is a beast, but to small! You have to get huge and strong up front! We lost to the steelers cause we could not stop the run! Being huge and strong up front is how you start and that's what we need to do imo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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