How the heck does Modrak still have a job?

[DrDawkinstein]

How do we know this?

 

Each of those different pieces of information have been discussed/leaked in various interviews and articles with various coaches and Bills FO employees over the last 4 years.

 

On the other hand, Modrak did put together a draft board that graded Ngata and McCargo identically.

 

Predicting the future of another person is an imperfect science. I remember back then that McCargo was very good in college, and looked very good coming out of college. Ngata was the first DT picked, and McCargo the 3rd. Now they seem worlds apart, but back then, I can see it being close. However, even if he had Ngata rated higher than McCargo, do you think it would have made any difference? Remember, the Whitner pick was a "common denominator" pick.

 

I'm not trying hard to defend Modrak for any reason, I just dont think all of our mistakes in drafting fall onto that guy. I'm sure he's had some misses. I'd bet everyone else in his position on other teams has as well.

[bbb]

I can't believe MoDOPE still has a job? Is Ralph senile???

 

Blurb from R D&C article sums it up:

Here's the Bills' first-round draft pick report from Sunday. 2004, Lee Evans: Invisible as usual, until the game was out of reach; 2006, John McCargo: played for the first time all season and made a tackle; 2006, Donte Whitner: Played OK, made a pick but also drew a 15-yard personal foul penalty; 2007, Marshawn Lynch: Not on roster, traded to Seattle and playing lousy there; 2008, Leodis McKelvin, played the worst game of his undistinguished career; 2009, Aaron Maybin: Hey, he was active. 2009, Eric Wood: Injured and didn't play; 2010, C.J. Spiller: 14 touches, 102 yards including returns. Way to go, Tom Modrak, good job.'

 

Except for Wood and CJ its a total mindboggling discrace! Most fans on this board could have picked better by just picking up a Pro Football Weekly magazine!

 

I have been saying the same thing all year. Anybody on this board could have drafted better........It is maddening beyond belief and I don't even know how we climb out of this hole with so many busts and downright stupid picks that aren't even hindsight stupid - we knew they were stupid at the time.

 

CJ Spiller would have had to been a top 5 NFL running back to justify picking him that high. He's not even top 50 at this point.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Predicting the future of another person is an imperfect science. I remember back then that McCargo was very good in college, and looked very good coming out of college. Ngata was the first DT picked, and McCargo the 3rd. Now they seem worlds apart, but back then, I can see it being close. However, even if he had Ngata rated higher than McCargo, do you think it would have made any difference? Remember, the Whitner pick was a "common denominator" pick.

I don't believe it would've made any difference. My point is that if they had done their homework, these two guys should not have been close. The bottom line results speak plainly to this. A professional scout needs to do much more than watch 5 minutes of youtube highlights.

I'm not trying hard to defend Modrak for any reason, I just dont think all of our mistakes in drafting fall onto that guy. I'm sure he's had some misses. I'd bet everyone else in his position on other teams has as well.

I don't put all the blame on him either; but, I'm certainly not going to completely absolve him primarily because he is still an employee either. He's clearly been a part of the circus any way you slice it. The results since he has been here are mostly misses and plenty of outright head scratchers. Part of the problem is that the same scouting department has been asked to identify talent for systems that are changed more frequently than some posters change their boxer shorts, I'm sure. Marketing and a fear of confrontation having their sway as well.

[bill in Livonia]

I can't figure it out either.he is so vacuous that I even forgot about him.

 

 

 

quote name='Marv Levy' timestamp='1291655399' post='2052264'

I can't believe MoDOPE still has a job? Is Ralph senile???

 

Blurb from R D&C article sums it up:

Here's the Bills' first-round draft pick report from Sunday. 2004, Lee Evans: Invisible as usual, until the game was out of reach; 2006, John McCargo: played for the first time all season and made a tackle; 2006, Donte Whitner: Played OK, made a pick but also drew a 15-yard personal foul penalty; 2007, Marshawn Lynch: Not on roster, traded to Seattle and playing lousy there; 2008, Leodis McKelvin, played the worst game of his undistinguished career; 2009, Aaron Maybin: Hey, he was active. 2009, Eric Wood: Injured and didn't play; 2010, C.J. Spiller: 14 touches, 102 yards including returns. Way to go, Tom Modrak, good job.'

 

Except for Wood and CJ its a total mindboggling discrace! Most fans on this board could have picked better by just picking up a Pro Football Weekly magazine!

[Mr_Blizzard]

I can't believe MoDOPE still has a job? Is Ralph senile???

 

Maybe he's got one of these . . .

 

Ralphie

Edited December 6, 2010 by Mr_Blizzard

[bkc]

Modrak just scouts and makes reports and recommendations based on what he has seen. Two years ago he was very high on Cushing, but DJ and Co. pushed for Maybin.

 

There is only so much Modrak can do. He isnt in charge of making the actual picks.

 

 

plus the fact that the bills do so well with late round picks and undrafted free agents shows that Modrak does a really good job of evaluating talent. You can Blame Dickie J for this mess of a roster. He wanted the small quick players which clearly not the direction league was headed.

[Slayers]

I have been saying the same thing all year. Anybody on this board could have drafted better........It is maddening beyond belief and I don't even know how we climb out of this hole with so many busts and downright stupid picks that aren't even hindsight stupid - we knew they were stupid at the time.

 

CJ Spiller would have had to been a top 5 NFL running back to justify picking him that high. He's not even top 50 at this point.

 

Yeah right 90% of the people on this board were crying for Clausen and look how good he is playing right now. If anyone on here even knew what the head scouts job really was then they can talk and cry but since NO ONE really knows what goes on behind the doors on draft day then STFU and stop crying we have a real GM for a change and let him do the picking for a few years then cry some more

[spartacus]

Modrak just scouts and makes reports and recommendations based on what he has seen. Two years ago he was very high on Cushing, but DJ and Co. pushed for Maybin.

 

There is only so much Modrak can do. He isnt in charge of making the actual picks.

 

this is the kind of crap that allows Modrak to keep his job

 

 

no accountability or responsibility

 

 

 

 

yeah- why would the director of college scouting have any say in who they pick on draft day

 

good thing he puts out all those retroactive player reviews after the season so we know who he really wanted to pick

 

 

 

 

such horse hockey

 

 

[flopagamo]

Great topic. Something that has never been discussed on TSW before.

[KOKBILLS]

Each of those different pieces of information have been discussed/leaked in various interviews and articles with various coaches and Bills FO employees over the last 4 years.

 

 

 

Predicting the future of another person is an imperfect science. I remember back then that McCargo was very good in college, and looked very good coming out of college. Ngata was the first DT picked, and McCargo the 3rd. Now they seem worlds apart, but back then, I can see it being close. However, even if he had Ngata rated higher than McCargo, do you think it would have made any difference? Remember, the Whitner pick was a "common denominator" pick.

 

I'm not trying hard to defend Modrak for any reason, I just dont think all of our mistakes in drafting fall onto that guy. I'm sure he's had some misses. I'd bet everyone else in his position on other teams has as well.

 

Honestly it was not close at all between Ngata and McCargo coming out...McCargo was a Freshman All american and All-ACC Honerable mention in 2004...Then that was about it...Not that he was bad...But he was no where near Ngata...Ngata was all-world and the only question with him was if he played too high if I remember right...He dominated in College...He was consensus All American in 2005...He was generally thought to be a MUCH better prospect than Whitner, let alone McCargo...McCargo was the 3rd Rated DT in the Draft but everyone knew the gap between 2nd and 3rd was wide...The problem was the gap between 3rd and 4th was thought to be wider and the Bills panicked...Little did they know they ended up getting the 3rd best, maybe the 2nd best DT with the 1st Pick in the 5th round...But that was the Levy led Bills for you...It was a cluster...

[Fan in San Diego]

He and RW are the only common denominators for the last 10 years. Get rid of both of them. Seriously.

[Marv Levy]

He and RW are the only common denominators for the last 10 years. Get rid of both of them. Seriously.

I cannot agree more!!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Doesn't it seem kind of strange thta the later round picks are pretty good, but the 1st through 3rd rounders or so are weak. I'd imagine the 1st couple of rounds, being much higher profile, get much more input, where as a 7th rounder may be totally off scouting reports and little input given from others. No one knows how much is on Modrak vs. others, but hte fact that the later round picks and FA have done well makes me think Modrak has had much less involvement wit hearly round selections as many here like to argue.

 

 

You can't have that many bad drafts and not have him be repsonsable for at least some of it. I don't think I would blame him for the whitner/maybin pick.... but a lot of other things I would. Especially those 2nd round picks we missed on. He finds gems in the later rounds like kyle william, steve johnson, etc. But man, those top picks are just blah.

 

I think Nix and Co actually like him, and I don't see him getting fired until Nix or Ralph is gone.

 

 

 

Agreed on all counts. We always wonder what the hell is going on in the war room.... if we knew the truth, it would probably answer a lot of questions as to why this team is where we are.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Doesn't it seem kind of strange thta the later round picks are pretty good, but the 1st through 3rd rounders or so are weak. I'd imagine the 1st couple of rounds, being much higher profile, get much more input, where as a 7th rounder may be totally off scouting reports and little input given from others. No one knows how much is on Modrak vs. others, but hte fact that the later round picks and FA have done well makes me think Modrak has had much less involvement wit hearly round selections as many here like to argue.

This argument sounds like people looking under the last rock to find something to prop up Modrak's record.

 

Edit: Specifically, they have to play *somebody*. So, just finding bodies that fill out the lineup isn't a very high bar. It's a bar pseudopods can leap over.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If I had a guess I'd say the first and maybe the second picks, are done by commitee and perhaps even approved/directed by Ralph himself. I am not defending Modack, but it is likely a lot more opinions (including those with rank) permiate through the organization on what to do at #9 than #201. Only insiders know to what degree the various picks are managed, Micromanaged, etc.

 

Also I know I heard Nix and Gailey hinting that a spiller type guy was important to their offense, Waterbug was the term I heard numerous times prior to the draft, indicating they either influenced, or bought into the Spiller strategy.

 

I guess the main point though is well recived, what former #1 pick on the roster would garner a first or even a 2nd rounder in trade? I can't think of one and that is unfortunate.

Edited December 7, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Billsguy]

If Modrak is incharge of the quality picks the Bills make from 3-7 and the undrafted free agents then he is doing an amazing job.

If there really is a committee approach to the 1st and 2nd picks then that committee needs to be blown up.

Whoever is drafting the late rounds should be given the early rounds as well.

It can't possibly be the same group.

The High drafts are obvious busts, well maybe just Maybin.

McDrainBramage was rated the #1 CB coming into the draft and "fell" to the Bills at #11, the other teams must have realized how dumb the young man is, and thought he might not be coachable.

Which is true, you think after the first 3 fumbled kickoff returns he'd practice better ball security.

 

Either way whoever is drafting late needs to get the reigns early.

 

 

"If Modrak is incharge of the quality picks the Bills make from 3-7 and the undrafted free agents then he is doing an amazing job."

 

Amazing?

 

The bar is so low in Buffalo! The team is 2-10 currently and has missed the playoffs for a decade!

 

Amazing? How has this "amazing job" translated into measurable success? Measureable success means wins and losses.

 

This is one of the big problems: accept objective failure as perceived success.

[1B4IDie]

"If Modrak is incharge of the quality picks the Bills make from 3-7 and the undrafted free agents then he is doing an amazing job."

 

Amazing?

 

The bar is so low in Buffalo! The team is 2-10 currently and has missed the playoffs for a decade!

 

Amazing? How has this "amazing job" translated into measurable success? Measureable success means wins and losses.

 

This is one of the big problems: accept objective failure as perceived success.

I'm sorry I didn't know Modrak suits up and plays on Sunday or coaches the team during the week.

 

People are calling for Modrak's head because we are 2-10? Yes the Bills have been a failure for 10 years.

Modrak's job appears to be managing the talent evaluation of individual players, including the individual talent evaluators (He doesn't do it all by himself.)

On an individual by individual player basis the Bills have gotten good talent in rounds 3-7 as well as undrafted free agents. The Bills have gotten very little value on an individual player by player basis from rounds 1 and 2.

 

The point is we hear rumors that coaches, GMs and owners have been meddling with the High Round draft picks, IF Modrak's scouting has lead to the quality late round picks and undrafted free agents then his scouting is actually doing a good job on an individual by individual basis. Which is Modrak's job, scout quality football players.

 

It is the GMs' responsibility to draft and sign the scouted players, the Coaches' responsibility to coach the players, and the players' individual responsibility to play well.

 

IF Modrak is responsible for the decade of early draft futility then yes there needs to be accountability.

 

Either way Firing Modrak is going to have little effect on the Bills record.

If you want to make him a likely scapegoat for GM, coaching, and owner meddling go ahead. If that happens and picks 3-7 go south too, then the mystery is finally solved.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[Dawgg]

Predicting the future of another person is an imperfect science. I remember back then that McCargo was very good in college, and looked very good coming out of college. Ngata was the first DT picked, and McCargo the 3rd. Now they seem worlds apart, but back then, I can see it being close.

If you believe that, you are certifiably insane

 

McCargo was the third best defensive lineman on his collegiate team behind Lawson and Mario Williams. The Bills reached on him and the stupidity of the pick was just as obvious then as it is now. He had a 2nd round projected grade. The moment the Bills traded up, I thought they'd take any one of the number of highly rated offensive line prospects – Mangold, Davin Joseph, Marcus McNeill – and instead they went with this stiff. Whoever made that selection should have been fired long ago.

[oak tree 12]

I can't believe MoDOPE still has a job? Is Ralph senile???

 

Blurb from R D&C article sums it up:

Here's the Bills' first-round draft pick report from Sunday. 2004, Lee Evans: Invisible as usual, until the game was out of reach; 2006, John McCargo: played for the first time all season and made a tackle; 2006, Donte Whitner: Played OK, made a pick but also drew a 15-yard personal foul penalty; 2007, Marshawn Lynch: Not on roster, traded to Seattle and playing lousy there; 2008, Leodis McKelvin, played the worst game of his undistinguished career; 2009, Aaron Maybin: Hey, he was active. 2009, Eric Wood: Injured and didn't play; 2010, C.J. Spiller: 14 touches, 102 yards including returns. Way to go, Tom Modrak, good job.'

 

Except for Wood and CJ its a total mindboggling discrace! Most fans on this board could have picked better by just picking up a Pro Football Weekly magazine!

why cant you rock heads get it thru your thick skulls it was not his call it was always jurons.

 

its common knowledge that Modrak wanted Cushing,DJ overruled him and wanted Maybin.

 

the guy is director of scouting he could not force DJ or Marv to take the player he recommended what part of that dont you idi-ts get?

[Red]

Modrak just scouts and makes reports and recommendations based on what he has seen. Two years ago he was very high on Cushing, but DJ and Co. pushed for Maybin.

 

There is only so much Modrak can do. He isnt in charge of making the actual picks.

 

DUDE, stop defending Modrak.

 

His title is DIRECTOR OF SCOUTING.

 

What does a scout do, if not compile reports on players at the college level?

 

As DIRECTOR of scouting, he should be completely aware of all players coming out of college that have been assembled by his scouting team. He should be reviewing and having final approval on ALL players the scouts compile in their travels.

 

And when "DJ and Co.", or Mularkey, or Levy, or Williams/ Donahoe made choices, THEY HAD TO GET THEIR INFORMATION ON WHO TO DRAFT FROM THEIR SCOUTING STAFF!!!!!!

 

What don't you get about that?

 

The information on whom to select has to come from somewhere!!!!

 

That someone is the DIRECTOR OF FREAKIN SCOUTING!!!!

 

Not only that, but he's been the only consistent at OBD this decade besides Littman, Overdorf, and Wilson himself.

 

I personally feel that Wilson is too old to be involved. That's why he has entrusted Littman, Overdorf, Modrak, and the current GM with running the "brain trust".

 

Now, I really trust Nix. He also is only in his 2nd year with us. So, I know he's not the problem.

 

How many drafts, how many wasted 1st round picks do you want to have, before Modrak is let go?

 

Evans is not a #1 receiver. Lynch is gone. McCargo was a terrible reach who will be gone after this season. Ngata should have been drafted over Whitner. Maybin is a joke. Bledsoe and Losman are not only not on the team any longer- they're no longer in the league! McKelvin is proving to be a surprising let-down. With the exception of Wood and Spiller (incidentally, this is also when Nix started- imagine that!) we have had a decade....a DECADE of poor picks.

 

The only person in charge of scouting for the past decade is Modrak.

 

What don't you get?

 

why cant you rock heads get it thru your thick skulls it was not his call it was always jurons.

 

its common knowledge that Modrak wanted Cushing,DJ overruled him and wanted Maybin.

 

the guy is director of scouting he could not force DJ or Marv to take the player he recommended what part of that dont you idi-ts get?

 

 

More craziness.

 

There is no overruling. There is no power struggle.

 

What don't you get?

 

The people making the draft picks are basing those picks on the information compiled by the scouting staff. I.E.: Poor scouting= POOR FREAKIN' PLAYERS!

 

It's not that hard of a concept.