10 greatest players of all time...

[The Dean]

Well, I would definitely take Young over P-Gump in a big game, but not Brady.

 

This.

 

 

You may have missed this:

 

Highest Passer Rating, Career—96.8

 

Most Rushing Touchdowns by a QB, Career—43

 

Most Passing Titles, Career—6 (tied w/Sammy Baugh)

 

Most Consecutive Passing Titles—4 (1991-94)

 

Most Seasons with a Passer Rating Over 100, Career—6 (1991-94, 1997-98)

 

Most Consecutive Games w/300+ Yards Passing—6 (Young was the first QB to do this in 1998; Kurt Warner (2000) and Rich Gannon (2002) have since tied the mark)

 

One of only 4 QB's to lead the league in touchdown passes 4 times (tied w/Johnny Unitas, Brett Favre, and Len Dawson)

 

Most Passes Attempted, Playoff Game—65 vs. Green Bay, 1995

 

Most TD Passes, Playoff Game—6 (tied w/Daryle Lamonica)

 

Most TD Passes in one Super Bowl—6

 

Then consider he did all that despite spending his first two years with the hapless Bucs and the next five backing up Montana.

[Rico]

You may have missed this:

 

 

 

Then consider he did all that despite spending his first two years with the hapless Bucs and the next five backing up Montana.

The greatest of the great don't have 7 lost years... maybe a couple at the beginning or end of their careers.

[justnzane]

The greatest of the great don't have 7 lost years... maybe a couple at the beginning or end of their careers.

 

 

That's just it, he managed to succeed a legend a reset the standard by doing so. He put up great #'s, and who's to say that he wouldn't have put those type of numbers or better if montana got hurt earlier in his career?

[Rico]

That's just it, he managed to succeed a legend a reset the standard by doing so. He put up great #'s, and who's to say that he wouldn't have put those type of numbers or better if montana got hurt earlier in his career?

Only he didn't reset the standard, he only got 1 ring ... a great accomplishment, but still not close to 4. And who's to say is playing what-if... did he do it, no he did not.

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

coulda, shoulda, woulda... mormon

 

[Rico]

coulda, shoulda, woulda... mormon

 

Exactly.

[Big Turk]

None-the-less, given a big game, I know who I want as QB in his prime, and Steve Young would be far from my 1st choice.

 

Drew Bledsoe?

 

[The Senator]

Cookie Gilchrist

 

belongs on the list.

[ConradDobler]

Cookie Gilchrist

 

belongs on the list.

 

What could have been.

 

Props to Matter for starting this little diversionary thread the night before our first 2010 PS game. And thanks to everyone in this thread for helping to keep my mind off of 7:35pm tomorrow. I really think that if any individual can prove a certain level of Bills' fanhood he or she should get a ration of drugs or liquor (electroshock or psychotherapy could be added at a nominal fee) for such stress.

 

Edit: I don't mean to sound negative. I am just so wound up I am ready to go outside and gnaw down telephone poles like a beaver (to quote someone famous).

[Hplarrm]

Bruce deserves that spot.

 

Never saw Butkus play but it's hard to imagine that he was better than Ray Lewis.

I did see Butkus as a kid growing up in Chicago and thus am biased but Butkus was a singular force. Its hard for me to imagine another player who just exerted his force of will on a game singlejandedly. He was so good he made me feel sprry for the opponent and I was rooting for the Bears. Its horrible to even hint at praising his play for it but he literally killed Chuck Hughes of Detroit with a hit.

[hondo in seattle]

OJ belongs on this list. He was the player of the decade for the 70's and the 70's made the NFL.

 

I agree... but not yet. OJ deserves to be in Hell. After he gets that, I'll be willing to grant him some other things he deserves. Like inclusion in a top ten list. In his prime, he was virtually unstoppable, unbelieveable.

[KRC]

Holy hell, what a ridiculously bad list. This guy knows that football started before 1970, right? Oh, he included Butkus. My bad.

 

Hutson was better than Rice. Graham was better than Unitas (sorry Rich). While not exactly the same position, Hein was better at his position than Munoz was at his. That is just the tip of the iceburg.

 

These writers really need to stop using "All-Time" when their only frame of reference is recent history.

[Bob in STL]

Butkus and Greene are not deserving to be on this list. I'm not even sure he is the best Chicago Bear of all time with Sayers, Payton, and Singletary also in that discussion. Hell Ray Lewis is probably better. Larry Allen is the best offensive guard and possibly offensive lineman of all time. John Hannah and Walter Jones dominated there position far greater than Greene dominated his. Ronnie Lott should also be in the discussion of top 10.

 

Butkus was dominant at his position and deserves to be there. Sounds like you never saw him play?

 

If I were a GM and Joe Greene, John Hannah, and Walter Jones were all on the draft board I would pick Joe Greene and I would sprint to the podium to do it. Don't get me wrong, Hannah and Jones were great players but Greene was a game changer.

 

Larry Allen? I have to chuckle at that one.

[VADC Bills]

No. Babe Ruth was amazing. He played against the best players of his era, more or less. Of course, he played in an era minus a substantial number of black players who had major league talent. That said, if you compare him to what he played against, he was far better than everyone else, and he played in a stadium that was 460 foot at center field. To reiterate, he was 94-46 as a starter.

 

More importantly, you can't compare him against today's players -- you have to compare him against the competition of his era. To say that segregation undercuts any claims to his greatness is a dodge -- he would have been as good in the Negro Leagues of that era as well. Comparing him against today's players, is like saying that David Petraeus is a better general than Hannibal because he dealt with more complicated technology and a larger operations theater. I'll take Hannibal (minus the human sacrifice stuff).

 

PS - I'm not getting your point about prohibition (above).

I'll take Bonds.

Ruth was dominant, clearly the best of his day...just as Bonds, but players are much bigger, stronger and better now. The competition has evened.

It's like saying Wilt was the greatest basketball player because he was the most dominant well that was because he was the only 7 footer back then. The competition has evened.

You put Bonds back in the Ruth era and he would dominate. You bring Ruth into today's baseball, he would not dominate.

Ruth never had to play under the death threats that Bond or Aaron had to as well.

[Rico]

Drew Bledsoe?

 

hmmmm..... NO

[VADC Bills]

I wasn't overly surprised about his inclusion, but nonetheless, anytime a former Bill is included i any list its great. Just makes you long for those days again. Anyways, here is the top 10:

 

1) Jerry Rice

2) Jim Brown

3) Johnny Unitas

4) Joe Montana

5) Reggie White

6) Bruce Smith

7) Lawrence Taylor

8) Dick Butkus

9) Anthony Munoz

10) Joe Greene

 

you can read the full article here: Top 10 NFL Players of All Time

The changes I would recommend would be.

1) Jim Brown

2) Jerry Rice

3) Joe Montana

4) Johnny Unitas

5) Deacon Jones

6) Bruce Smith

7) Lawrence Taylor

8) Reggie White

9) OJ Simpson

10) Dick Butkus

[tennesseeboy]

There were some great players in another era, such as Otto Graham and Norm Van Brocklin and Sammy Baugh who may have been overlooked. No defensive backs? Night Train Lane and a whole bunch of players from the late 60's to the present should be upset. I'm not sure about Munoz as the greatest offensive lineman. Ron Mix of San Diego Chargers and any number of others come to mind.

 

If this is a ranking process, I have to go with Jim Brown. I've never seen anything close to him, and that includes OJ, Gale Sayers and Walter Payton.

[Hplarrm]

There were some great players in another era, such as Otto Graham and Norm Van Brocklin and Sammy Baugh who may have been overlooked. No defensive backs? Night Train Lane and a whole bunch of players from the late 60's to the present should be upset. I'm not sure about Munoz as the greatest offensive lineman. Ron Mix of San Diego Chargers and any number of others come to mind.

 

If this is a ranking process, I have to go with Jim Brown. I've never seen anything close to him, and that includes OJ, Gale Sayers and Walter Payton.

The debate over Butkus on this board is an indicator of how much bias on these all time lists depends upon whether one saw a player play or not. To some extent whether a player strikes one as all time or not was how dominating that player was compared to other players of that era. I think Jim Brown leaks through even though he is from the before time because he was simply so much better than the competition he faced as opponents and relative to what other RBs were accomplishing he stands out (particular as he did this in a societal framework which discriminated so badly against him as an African-American.

 

The films I see of Brown and my recollections of Butkus were that a thing which made them singular was that they were like a men among boys out there when they played. They seemed to be going at a different speed than their opponents and that is what impresses me.

[The Dean]

The greatest of the great don't have 7 lost years... maybe a couple at the beginning or end of their careers.

 

 

coulda, shoulda, woulda... mormon

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

Then again, maybe you missed THIS:

 

Joe Montana, whom many people regard as the greatest passer in National Football League history, called Young ''the greatest passer I've ever seen.'' Fran Tarkenton, whom many regard as the greatest running quarterback in NFL history, calls Young ''the greatest running quarterback I've ever seen.'' Bill Walsh, the coach who brought Young to the San Francisco 49ers, calls him ''the best, most accurate passer I've ever seen.''

 

Sometimes circumstance plays a part in a player's career. The 49ers were so successful when Young first arrived they weren't about to start him over Joe even if he might have been better. Why mess with the chemistry? In later seasons it was clear the guy on the bench (Young) was better than the guy on the field (Montana). And by all accounts Montana was still pretty freaking good at that time.

 

Joe did not yield gracefully, unfortunately, and was a bit of a whiner when he was replaced. Still, after some time passed, he was wise enough to recognize that Young was the more skilled QB, as you can see from the quote above.

 

 

EDIT: One more thing (and I know you will just love this, Rico) Peyton Manning belongs on that list. No question.

[BillyBaroo]

I can fill in for him. Reggie white was good and HOF status but Bruce was better. Reggie played LDE in a 4-3. Bruce played RDE in a 3-4 and met double/triple teams on most plays.

Totally agreed - Bruce and LT were really the only complete game changers that I ever saw. I really don't feel like White should be on the list.