Schobel leaning more towards coming back...

[sharper802]

I hope he comes back and starts at DE. He's awesome there. No sense trying to teach an old dog new tricks (position).

 

Line him up on the end, pin his ears back, and let him reak havoc on the opponents QBs like he's done for the last 10 years or so.

3-4 DE's need to be 275-300lbs. He will play OLB in a 3-4. The Bills are actually not bad at DE with Spencer Johnson, Stroud, Dwan Edwards(FA from Baltimore), and Carrington(rookie third round). And that doesn't even include McCargo who could surprise but will most likely not make the team.

[HurlyBurly51]

He doesn't want to be traded, he wants to be cut because he'd have more negotiating power as a free agent

 

I don't think he'd be getting a new contract worth anything near $6M as a free agent with a new team. His best bet to see that kind of money is to play under his existing contract (either in Buffalo or via trade).

 

I felt all along that he wasn't going to leave that kind of money on the table, given the rumors of his thrifty ways.

[oak tree 12]

I know there was a similar post just closed - but on BuffaloRumblings they are suggesting just that - Schobel now closer to returning than retiring. It doesn't surprise me - because if he wanted to retire, he'd probably have done it much sooner. Why wait until training camp and beyond, especially when there's a new defense to learn, when coming to camp late would only, most likely, prevent him from starting. To me, it is a dramatic difference between our LB corp with Shobel and without him. I'd like to see if he can adjust to it. Certainly, if they shift from 3-4 to 4-3 out of the 3-4 allignment, pre-snap, then he'd be a good DE candidate to line up anywhere - certainly the opposition's O-line would have to account for him.

So, is it a better unit, 3-4, with him, or is he not really suited for it?

 

the effect his presence would have on maybin would be astronomical. with them having to account for schobels presence maybin's opportunities to rush the passer would increase 10 fold.

 

i love galiey i hope he is smart enough to let schoble use ralphs jet to take him home on their off days mon and tues,ralph already promised him that courtesy.

 

he is by far our best defensive weapon who would command attention on every down and the benefits of him not having to face tackles as our strong side OLB in our 3/4 would mean he would have to be accounted for by TE's and RB's and would create an emmense mismatch.

 

the man is a class act and a family man however his presence could make maybin a super star coming off the edge. it would be pick your poison.

 

all the as-holes saying move on without him have no clue what they are talking about,you do not subtract your best defensive player and not feel the effects.

 

i pray to the lord that wilson exerts his authority and gives schobel his wishes to be with his kids 2 days a week because the benefits far out weigh the negatives and would make maybin develop much quicker and increase his confidence imennesly.

 

right now we have not strong side OLB worth a crap with schobel teams would have to adjust their whole offense to account for him only speeding up maybins development

 

between the 2 of them they could account for more than 25 sacks easily..

[WickedGame]

I have a hunch Schobel was never leaning toward retiring. He just didn't want to come to OTAs and mini-camps. I'm sure he'd love to skip half of training camp, too. He's a Pro Bowl player -- the retirement shtick was just his PR-friendly way of saying "I've earned the right to show up late. I'll get up to speed faster than 90% of the NFL, and still be better than half of them."

 

Hey, he's getting old. Ducking out of a practice or two is probably better for his health during the season. See you in a few days, Aaron.

[sllib olaffub]

I don't know that Schobel and Maybin would be playing opposite each other - one on each side - or, if Maybin would then be Schobel's back-up?

As for Schobel showing up out of shape - that's one thing these old all stars know how to do - is stay in football shape. They know what it takes for their bodies to remain physically conditioned enough to make through a normal season, and when they show up, they show up to play.

If he does wait until middle of camp to come, then I'd bet he'll be put in the back of the rotation and have to work his way up. Someone here mentioned older DE's transitioning to OLB's in their later years and being successful. Examples don't come to mind, but it'd be encouraging to know it has happened before.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

I know there was a similar post just closed - but on BuffaloRumblings they are suggesting just that - Schobel now closer to returning than retiring. It doesn't surprise me - because if he wanted to retire, he'd probably have done it much sooner. Why wait until training camp and beyond, especially when there's a new defense to learn, when coming to camp late would only, most likely, prevent him from starting. To me, it is a dramatic difference between our LB corp with Shobel and without him. I'd like to see if he can adjust to it. Certainly, if they shift from 3-4 to 4-3 out of the 3-4 allignment, pre-snap, then he'd be a good DE candidate to line up anywhere - certainly the opposition's O-line would have to account for him.

So, is it a better unit, 3-4, with him, or is he not really suited for it?

 

 

He has a BIG Money comming to him this year and would be a fool to retire and walk away from that pay check!!!

[reddogblitz]

3-4 DE's need to be 275-300lbs. He will play OLB in a 3-4. The Bills are actually not bad at DE with Spencer Johnson, Stroud, Dwan Edwards(FA from Baltimore), and Carrington(rookie third round). And that doesn't even include McCargo who could surprise but will most likely not make the team.

I don't claim to be a 3-4 expert by any means. However, it sounds odd to me that a guy can only fall into a 25 pound window to be effective. I hear all this of converting linemen to linebackers. Just because the Outside Linebacker gets more sacks than the end doesn't mean that a guy that got most of the sacks before needs to move to that position. So what if he doesn't get as many sacks? Besides, an outside linebacker has many other duties besides rushing the passer like covering RBs and TEs and dropping back in coverage etc. I wonder if Aaron's skills really translate to that. Seems I've seen him get burned dropping back in coverage.

 

My opinion is to put him at end. He weighs 243. Can't he overcome being 32 lbs lighter than you think he needs to be with skill and veteran cunning? I hope he comes back tough wherever they want to put him.

[Pete]

I would put money Schobel returns. I think he is working out and taking his time getting back

[Hossage]

I don't claim to be a 3-4 expert by any means. However, it sounds odd to me that a guy can only fall into a 25 pound window to be effective. I hear all this of converting linemen to linebackers. Just because the Outside Linebacker gets more sacks than the end doesn't mean that a guy that got most of the sacks before needs to move to that position. So what if he doesn't get as many sacks? Besides, an outside linebacker has many other duties besides rushing the passer like covering RBs and TEs and dropping back in coverage etc. I wonder if Aaron's skills really translate to that. Seems I've seen him get burned dropping back in coverage.

 

My opinion is to put him at end. He weighs 243. Can't he overcome being 32 lbs lighter than you think he needs to be with skill and veteran cunning? I hope he comes back tough wherever they want to put him.

 

Schobel was more like 260 last year. He has been as big as 290 in the offseason.

[reddogblitz]

Schobel was more like 260 last year. He has been as big as 290 in the offseason.

OK, Ii was just gong by this: http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronschobel/profile?id=SCH422487

 

243 does sound a little light.

[Swift Sylvan]

Frankly, I could care less WHERE they decide to use Schobel. If this organization is competent they will find a way to use his talent even if they have to alter the scheme a little in order to maximize his potential. Schobel is a talented player who has been to the pro-bowl because of his abilities. The coaching staff certainly is aware of this and wherever he ends up, it will help our defense.

 

That being said I hope he has the ability to play as an outside linebacker

[Malazan]

Frankly, I could care less WHERE they decide to use Schobel. If this organization is competent they will find a way to use his talent even if they have to alter the scheme a little in order to maximize his potential. Schobel is a talented player who has been to the pro-bowl because of his abilities. The coaching staff certainly is aware of this and wherever he ends up, it will help our defense.

 

That being said I hope he has the ability to play as an outside linebacker

 

Let's hope he's genuine if he does return and isn't simply showing up to collect his paycheck.

[sharper802]

I don't claim to be a 3-4 expert by any means. However, it sounds odd to me that a guy can only fall into a 25 pound window to be effective. I hear all this of converting linemen to linebackers. Just because the Outside Linebacker gets more sacks than the end doesn't mean that a guy that got most of the sacks before needs to move to that position. So what if he doesn't get as many sacks? Besides, an outside linebacker has many other duties besides rushing the passer like covering RBs and TEs and dropping back in coverage etc. I wonder if Aaron's skills really translate to that. Seems I've seen him get burned dropping back in coverage.

 

My opinion is to put him at end. He weighs 243. Can't he overcome being 32 lbs lighter than you think he needs to be with skill and veteran cunning? I hope he comes back tough wherever they want to put him.

It's a matter of physics. P(momentum)=M(mass)V(velocity). 5 offensive lineman and a TE against 3 down lineman. If you want your LB's to be able to attack the down lineman need to occupy space and blockers.

[Orton's Arm]

if he doesnt show he doesnt get paid, my understanding is if you release him he still has a cap hit so that idea is no good.

The salary cap works like this:

 

Suppose Team X pays a player a $5 million bonus, with $1 million a year in base salary. The contract is five years long. Each year, the player's cap hit is $1 million base salary + 1/5th the bonus. The cap hit for the bonus is 1/5th the total because it's a five year deal. Each year for the next five years, this player will create a cap hit of $2 million.

 

Now suppose that, for whatever reason, the player doesn't stay with your team for the full five years. Maybe you trade him away, maybe he retires, maybe you release him. The cause of his departure doesn't really matter, at least not for cap purposes. Let's say that you get rid of him after year three. That means that there's $2 million in bonus money you paid him (back when his contract was first signed), that hasn't yet been counted against the cap. In the first year of his absence, you'll have $2 million in dead money because of that bonus. Meaning, that the remaining part of his bonus will count against your team's cap for the year, even though he's no longer with you. After that year is over, he'll be off your books completely.

 

Getting rid of a player early means that you accelerate whatever cap hit for the bonus money you paid him. You were going to take that cap hit anyway--but getting rid of the guy early means you take it all at once, in one lump. On the other hand, you no longer have to worry about the cap hit for his base salary, because he's no longer collecting a paycheck from your team.

 

The Bills are so far below the salary cap that none of the above materially affects them. The real constraint the Bills face is Ralph Wilson's ability to pay money to players. In recent years, the salary cap has increased significantly, even as a percentage of revenues. The definition of revenues has also been broadened; causing the percentage of revenues which are shared to decrease. The upshot of all this is that it has now become significantly more difficult for small market teams to have the same size payrolls as teams from larger cities.

[Thurman#1]

He wants to play. He just does not want to play here and he simply does not want to come right out and demand a trade, because he does not want to seem like a jerk to the fans and team who have supported him.

It seems to me that he is trying to do the right thing. He wants to play closer to his home but he does not want to demand a trade publicly. The Bills should (and may already have been) be looking to see if Houston, Dallas or TN has interest in trading for him. It is unlikely, but it is worth a chance. Otherwise, just release him and let him get on with his life. He really isn't in the longterm plans for the team anyway. Just move on.

 

 

This is what I guess is happening. But perhaps he is willing to play here if it is his only choice.

 

Schobel is extremely undervalued on these boards. The guy always leaves everything he's got on the field. He's not willing to change who he is off the field, and that has always raised hackles here, but he's extremely talented and has been our best defensive player for years, though if Byrd learns to play the run, he might just take over.

 

OP, I don't think anybody knows how well he will do in the 3 - 4. I know I don't. If I had to guess, I'd guess he would be good for nearly as many sacks as he always gets, but will have big problems covering backs who go out for passes, and might have a bit harder time stopping the run when he can't engage as quickly as he usually does.

[Thurman#1]

I don't know how the contract situation works - but, it seems like if wanted to play for another team - if he was free to sign with anyone, there'd be a bunch of teams looking to get him - so, it seems like we don't want to let him go for nothing, and that leaves another team giving us something for him, or him trying to adapt to an OLB role. I can see the Bills not wanting to just give him away, when there'd be a line of teams looking to pick him up. It's a tough situation. I'd still like to see how he could play at OLB. He's what, 265 lbs or so?

 

 

 

230 - 240. He's often been accused of being too small, and he says a lot of other 4 - 3 DEs are actually his size though they are listed heavier, and he's right when he says that he handles the run very well indeed, so his weight has never been an issue. I wonder if it will be when he starts standing up, thus giving up a bit of leverage.

[Thurman#1]

Excuse me, but his "retirement" did hang the Bills out to dry. It destroyed his trade value.........

 

 

 

If he was considering retirement, should he have lied about it? Then after the Bills trade him, he maybe screws the team that gets him by retiring?

 

He was just being honest.

[Thurman#1]

3-4 DE's need to be 275-300lbs. He will play OLB in a 3-4. The Bills are actually not bad at DE with Spencer Johnson, Stroud, Dwan Edwards(FA from Baltimore), and Carrington(rookie third round). And that doesn't even include McCargo who could surprise but will most likely not make the team.

 

 

275 is small for a 3 - 4 DE. I can't think of too many in that range. They usually start around 290, and two of them, Ngata and Raji, run 350 and 340.

[Thurman#1]

the effect his presence would have on maybin would be astronomical. with them having to account for schobels presence maybin's opportunities to rush the passer would increase 10 fold.

 

i love galiey i hope he is smart enough to let schoble use ralphs jet to take him home on their off days mon and tues,ralph already promised him that courtesy.

 

he is by far our best defensive weapon who would command attention on every down and the benefits of him not having to face tackles as our strong side OLB in our 3/4 would mean he would have to be accounted for by TE's and RB's and would create an emmense mismatch.

 

the man is a class act and a family man however his presence could make maybin a super star coming off the edge. it would be pick your poison.

 

all the as-holes saying move on without him have no clue what they are talking about,you do not subtract your best defensive player and not feel the effects.

 

i pray to the lord that wilson exerts his authority and gives schobel his wishes to be with his kids 2 days a week because the benefits far out weigh the negatives and would make maybin develop much quicker and increase his confidence imennesly.

 

right now we have not strong side OLB worth a crap with schobel teams would have to adjust their whole offense to account for him only speeding up maybins development

 

between the 2 of them they could account for more than 25 sacks easily..

 

 

 

My understanding is that Schobel and Maybin are competing for the ROLB job. The LOLB right now is Kelsay. The LOLB ends up doing a lot more pass defense and the ROLB rushes more, generally.

[Thurman#1]

He has a BIG Money comming to him this year and would be a fool to retire and walk away from that pay check!!!

 

 

 

Unless he has more than enough saved and the money isn't a factor. It would have nothing to do with foolishness. For you and me, $6 mill is huge. For Schobel, assuming he's already saved $40 mill or so, not such a big deal if he doesn't feel like playing anymore.

[Hplarrm]

Schobel isn't pulling a favre at all. He's not makign a scene or spectacle, and from all reports, the Bills were aware of what's been going with him. He's nto hanging us out to dry. He's simply taking his time.

 

Also, for guys that have played ball all their life, when this time of year comes around, football is all they know. Schobel has probably been prepping for football season at this time of year for the last 25 years of his life. Its gotta be tough to simply stop, and it doesn't surprise me that he might get the urge to come back and play 1 more year.

 

If he does, the defense is better for it.

At all?

 

Certainly the situations and the people are different. Yet, this whole thing comes off as merely Schobel's version of the same is he retired or is he not scenario that the older Farve has played for years.

 

It ain't the same thing but the simple fact is that NFL players learn from what they saw older NFL players do (for example Jason Peters saw Schobel play the Bills like a drum when he signed a new contract but within years saw how much the Bills were willing to pay a lesser talent like Kelsay. He started out by not attending voluntary practices and it became know publicly that he wanted a new contract. Lo and behold the Bills folded and let him have what he wanted.

 

Peters tried the same game, and though the Bills saw fit not to fold up the way they did for Schobel, eventually they gave Peters exactly what he was looking for contractually even though it was Philly that paid the big bucks.

 

I see this will he or won't he retirement game as being simply the Schobel version of the same game.

[Albany,n.y.]

The salary cap works like this:

 

Suppose Team X pays a player a $5 million bonus, with $1 million a year in base salary. The contract is five years long. Each year, the player's cap hit is $1 million base salary + 1/5th the bonus. The cap hit for the bonus is 1/5th the total because it's a five year deal. Each year for the next five years, this player will create a cap hit of $2 million.

 

Now suppose that, for whatever reason, the player doesn't stay with your team for the full five years. Maybe you trade him away, maybe he retires, maybe you release him. The cause of his departure doesn't really matter, at least not for cap purposes. Let's say that you get rid of him after year three. That means that there's $2 million in bonus money you paid him (back when his contract was first signed), that hasn't yet been counted against the cap. In the first year of his absence, you'll have $2 million in dead money because of that bonus. Meaning, that the remaining part of his bonus will count against your team's cap for the year, even though he's no longer with you. After that year is over, he'll be off your books completely.

 

Getting rid of a player early means that you accelerate whatever cap hit for the bonus money you paid him. You were going to take that cap hit anyway--but getting rid of the guy early means you take it all at once, in one lump. On the other hand, you no longer have to worry about the cap hit for his base salary, because he's no longer collecting a paycheck from your team.

 

The Bills are so far below the salary cap that none of the above materially affects them. The real constraint the Bills face is Ralph Wilson's ability to pay money to players. In recent years, the salary cap has increased significantly, even as a percentage of revenues. The definition of revenues has also been broadened; causing the percentage of revenues which are shared to decrease. The upshot of all this is that it has now become significantly more difficult for small market teams to have the same size payrolls as teams from larger cities.

There is no salary cap this season, therefore if you get rid of a player with an amortized signing bonus in 2010 there are no consequences.

[richNjoisy]

The salary cap works like this:

 

Suppose Team X pays a player a $5 million bonus, with $1 million a year in base salary. The contract is five years long. Each year, the player's cap hit is $1 million base salary + 1/5th the bonus. The cap hit for the bonus is 1/5th the total because it's a five year deal. Each year for the next five years, this player will create a cap hit of $2 million.

 

Now suppose that, for whatever reason, the player doesn't stay with your team for the full five years. Maybe you trade him away, maybe he retires, maybe you release him. The cause of his departure doesn't really matter, at least not for cap purposes. Let's say that you get rid of him after year three. That means that there's $2 million in bonus money you paid him (back when his contract was first signed), that hasn't yet been counted against the cap. In the first year of his absence, you'll have $2 million in dead money because of that bonus. Meaning, that the remaining part of his bonus will count against your team's cap for the year, even though he's no longer with you. After that year is over, he'll be off your books completely.

 

Getting rid of a player early means that you accelerate whatever cap hit for the bonus money you paid him. You were going to take that cap hit anyway--but getting rid of the guy early means you take it all at once, in one lump. On the other hand, you no longer have to worry about the cap hit for his base salary, because he's no longer collecting a paycheck from your team.

 

The Bills are so far below the salary cap that none of the above materially affects them. The real constraint the Bills face is Ralph Wilson's ability to pay money to players. In recent years, the salary cap has increased significantly, even as a percentage of revenues. The definition of revenues has also been broadened; causing the percentage of revenues which are shared to decrease. The upshot of all this is that it has now become significantly more difficult for small market teams to have the same size payrolls as teams from larger cities.

 

I do not think there are no monetary ramifications for Schobel if he chooses to retire. You are correct about how a bonus accelerates EXCEPT (I think) for a retirement - one would THINK a team would have the lone stipulation in a contract about the player actually not being allowed to CHOOSE not to play out his contract and be penalized an amortized part of his signing bonus. In other words, I can't sign a 10-year deal with a $50 million signing bonus and then quit in year 2 - at least not without returning a part of the bonus. One example I can think of is Ricky Williams who TRIED to retire but Miami successfully sued him for a portion of his signing bonus. So, I BELIEVE Schobel, if he retires, will be forced to return bonus money to the Bills. If I am correct, isn't he in like the third year of a six-year deal? Thus, by my reckoning, he would be forced to pay back 2/3 of his signing bonus as a penalty for retiring.

 

Does anyone know definitively what the rules/agreements are for his contract?

 

-RichNJoisy

[Coach55]

My bet of what Schobel is really thinking about at this time:

 

Think about the following, Schobel is 32, has made a ton of money, has gotten used to the lavish lifestyle and is getting tired of the football scene (as do most people with their jobs after a while). The big problem he is facing is "What am I going to do after football?". As much money as these guys make, they spend it just as fast with the big house, fancy cars, etc. When you turn the spigot off, you either need to find another source of income or cut down the spending.

 

As football season is drawing closer, I think reality is setting in. Does he go get a job making $40K a year and start working his way up the company ladder or does he play for 6 more months for $6mm. Most of this country won't see $6mm in a lifetime and he can make it in 6 months. He can always join the real world next year.

[tennesseeboy]

My bet of what Schobel is really thinking about at this time:

 

Think about the following, Schobel is 32, has made a ton of money, has gotten used to the lavish lifestyle and is getting tired of the football scene (as do most people with their jobs after a while). The big problem he is facing is "What am I going to do after football?". As much money as these guys make, they spend it just as fast with the big house, fancy cars, etc. When you turn the spigot off, you either need to find another source of income or cut down the spending.

 

As football season is drawing closer, I think reality is setting in. Does he go get a job making $40K a year and start working his way up the company ladder or does he play for 6 more months for $6mm. Most of this country won't see $6mm in a lifetime and he can make it in 6 months. He can always join the real world next year.

I think all things being equal he would retire or push for a trade. He is probably not big on playing a linebacker position. However you have a good point as to the money and it might be fine for him to skip camp/whine and ask to be traded/and then do what he has to to punch a clock and collect the money. He doesn't have to impress anyone, doesn't have to start, just go through the motions and pick up the check.

[Hossage]

My bet of what Schobel is really thinking about at this time:

 

Think about the following, Schobel is 32, has made a ton of money, has gotten used to the lavish lifestyle and is getting tired of the football scene (as do most people with their jobs after a while). The big problem he is facing is "What am I going to do after football?". As much money as these guys make, they spend it just as fast with the big house, fancy cars, etc. When you turn the spigot off, you either need to find another source of income or cut down the spending.

 

As football season is drawing closer, I think reality is setting in. Does he go get a job making $40K a year and start working his way up the company ladder or does he play for 6 more months for $6mm. Most of this country won't see $6mm in a lifetime and he can make it in 6 months. He can always join the real world next year.

 

Schobel has just built a large mansion and is not hurting for money. He owns a tree farm.

[billsfreak]

I would put money Schobel returns. I think he is working out and taking his time getting back

I kinda agree, I am thinking he wanted to spend the entire summer in Texas and not at OTAs or mini camps.