***OFFICIAL WORLD CUP 2010 THREAD***

[meazza]

Not trolling or arguing, but I have a soccer question I can't get a good grasp. How much do strategy and adjustment really impact soccer games?

 

I think most strategies are done before the game, for example, formation, lineup, and aggressiveness, while adjustments can be made in half time. However, how are strategy and adjustment being done during the game? For example, after seeing opponent does certain things, how can they coordinate to do X when the other team does Y but not Z? The only thing I know is substitution. Compared to NFL (every down), NBA (timeouts), and MLB (signals), soccer's strategy and especially adjustment seem quite minimal imo.

 

Formations are pretty much the biggest impact of games. For example, 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3 etc can really have an impact on how your midfield does.

 

Playing with 4-4-2 for example means you're depending on your two wingers to come in and cross on the other hand. Playing 4-3-1-2 allows to have one creative mdifielder and using the 2 wing backs to run up and down the flanks. That creates a risk of having two defenders tired against counter attacks.

 

Some coaches try to put their weakest defenders on certain players as they know that a certain player will not be able to create (i.e. the coach feels he's overrated) allowing another player to be double teamed.

 

11 on 11 soccer is quite strategic. On the other hand 5 on 5 soccer is not.

 

The last world cup and biggest soccer tournaments was won by the better coaches. Flashier teams like Argentina, Barcelona, Brazil etc have been unsuccessful once they play against a good coach. There's a reason for that.

[meazza]

That reminds me of a wedding I attended the night the Yankees clinched the first of their recent WS wins in 1996. There was no TV, only the men's room attendant's radio, so every guy was going in to take a leak every 5 minutes. In the 9th inning, there must have been 100 guys packed into a 3 stall john to hear the final outs --- the bride was none too happy!

 

Non sports fans will never understand these kind of decisions. We wait all this time to watch these games, spend money on jerseys, caps, nice TV's and everything and have to forego watching a crucial game because someone else feels their "event" is more important.

 

If the bills ever make the playoffs again, i don't think anything could make me miss it

[syhuang]

Formations are pretty much the biggest impact of games. For example, 4-4-2 or 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3 etc can really have an impact on how your midfield does.

 

Playing with 4-4-2 for example means you're depending on your two wingers to come in and cross on the other hand. Playing 4-3-1-2 allows to have one creative mdifielder and using the 2 wing backs to run up and down the flanks. That creates a risk of having two defenders tired against counter attacks.

 

Some coaches try to put their weakest defenders on certain players as they know that a certain player will not be able to create (i.e. the coach feels he's overrated) allowing another player to be double teamed.

 

11 on 11 soccer is quite strategic. On the other hand 5 on 5 soccer is not.

 

The last world cup and biggest soccer tournaments was won by the better coaches. Flashier teams like Argentina, Barcelona, Brazil etc have been unsuccessful once they play against a good coach. There's a reason for that.

 

 

I can understand formation, 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3, etc, however, what I don't understand is how soccer makes in-game adjustments. I mean, coaches setup formation, personnel, and so on before the game, and that's pretty much it. Then, they basically wait till half time.

 

I mean after the game starts and plays for some time, people pretty much know what works and what doesn't. How do teams make strategy changes to fix their weakness exposed by the opponent and attack opponent's weakness during the game? Substitute is the only thing I can think of, teams use it to replace tired or inefficient players or use it to change formation. Thus, I feel the strategy is pretty minimal in soccer compared to other sports.

 

When people say watching the strategy part in the game, I don't quite understand what/where to watch. At the beginning, we can watch which coaches has good pre-game strategy and how their plans work out. But after that, there isn't much strategy in the game.

[ajzepp]

Wow, what a goal by Maicon! Talk about an extreme angle!

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

That reminds me of a wedding I attended the night the Yankees clinched the first of their recent WS wins in 1996. There was no TV, only the men's room attendant's radio, so every guy was going in to take a leak every 5 minutes. In the 9th inning, there must have been 100 guys packed into a 3 stall john to hear the final outs --- the bride was none too happy!

 

That's all on the groom for agreeing to have his wedding during the World Series.

 

When I'm setting a date, you can bet I'm going to let my fiance know that October is off limits.

[meazza]

I can understand formation, 4-4-2, 5-4-1, 3-4-3, 4-3-3, etc, however, what I don't understand is how soccer makes in-game adjustments. I mean, coaches setup formation, personnel, and so on before the game, and that's pretty much it. Then, they basically wait till half time.

 

I mean after the game starts and plays for some time, people pretty much know what works and what doesn't. How do teams make strategy changes to fix their weakness exposed by the opponent and attack opponent's weakness during the game? Substitute is the only thing I can think of, teams use it to replace tired or inefficient players or use it to change formation. Thus, I feel the strategy is pretty minimal in soccer compared to other sports.

 

When people say watching the strategy part in the game, I don't quite understand what/where to watch. At the beginning, we can watch which coaches have good pre-game strategy and how their plans work out. But after that, there isn't much strategy in the game.

 

Well I'm not a coach but the manager might make certain players go forward more etc. Depends on how much space.

 

They might also change formation during the game. I'm sure there is plenty. I have friends who are coaches and they would probably be able to explain it better than i am.

 

(Can you tell I'm really not busy at work )

[KD in CA]

Relive the US-England highlights,

[meazza]

Wow, what a goal by Maicon! Talk about an extreme angle!

 

Keeper failed to cover his angle. You would never get that passed a guy like Casillas or Buffon.

[ajzepp]

Keeper failed to cover his angle. You would never get that passed a guy like Casillas or Buffon.

 

Even the English keeper probably could have stopped that one

[meazza]

Even the English keeper probably could have stopped that one

 

I noticed there so far has been so many errors. I think the defenses have really gotten better since 2006. You think the fact that a defensive team won in 2006 had anything to do with it

[ajzepp]

I noticed there so far has been so many errors. I think the defenses have really gotten better since 2006. You think the fact that a defensive team won in 2006 had anything to do with it

 

I just watched that goal again....I dont think the keeper ever expected him to take a shot like that. He's clearly anticipating a cross to the less-marked Brazilian in the box. The far guy was taken out of the play, but the nearer of the two Brazilians feigned like he was expecting the cross. Goalie still shoudl have stopped that, though, I agree....but nice shootin, regardless!

 

Speaking of defense, I think I was too hard on DeMerritt last game. I rewatched parts of it last night and aside from the communication blunders in the first half, he wasn't bad at all. These fukkers still need to learn how to clear the damn ball, though....unreal how many 2nd and 3rd chances England had.

[meazza]

I just watched that goal again....I dont think the keeper ever expected him to take a shot like that. He's clearly anticipating a cross to the less-marked Brazilian in the box. The far guy was taken out of the play, but the nearer of the two Brazilians feigned like he was expecting the cross. Goalie still shoudl have stopped that, though, I agree....but nice shootin, regardless!

 

Speaking of defense, I think I was too hard on DeMerritt last game. I rewatched parts of it last night and aside from the communication blunders in the first half, he wasn't bad at all. These fukkers still need to learn how to clear the damn ball, though....unreal how many 2nd and 3rd chances England had.

 

Defense falls strictly on coaching. Cannavaro played for Real Madrid and Juventus and their defense often looked shaky. All of a sudden he's playing for Italy and he looks like he's 25 again?

 

Having quality players helps but it falls # 1 on coaching. You should be happy that Ohneyu (sp?) was groomed by Nesta. A better role model, you will never find.

[ajzepp]

Defense falls strictly on coaching. Cannavaro played for Real Madrid and Juventus and their defense often looked shaky. All of a sudden he's playing for Italy and he looks like he's 25 again?

 

Having quality players helps but it falls # 1 on coaching. You should be happy that Ohneyu (sp?) was groomed by Nesta. A better role model, you will never find.

 

Nesta....what a pain in the asss that guy was last WC

[meazza]

Nesta....what a pain in the asss that guy was last WC

 

He is the best defender in the world by far. Always has been. When he challenges play, he does it so perfectly. There is so much confidence that he won't even come close to causing a foul. Better than Cannavaro.

 

By far, Cannavaro, Maldini, Nesta and Zambrotta was the best defensive line ever. Too bad Nesta's injury woes slowed down his career.

 

I say this without bias.

[ajzepp]

He is the best defender in the world by far. Always has been. When he challenges play, he does it so perfectly. There is so much confidence that he won't even come close to causing a foul. Better than Cannavaro.

 

By far, Cannavaro, Maldini, Nesta and Zambrotta was the best defensive line ever. Too bad Nesta's injury woes slowed down his career.

 

I say this without bias.

 

The one Italian player I look forward to watching is Gattuso....that guy hits the field and just goes apeshiit, man. I wish the US team had an equivalent player off the bench. Seems like every time I see Gattuso, he's around the ball or making something happen.

[PTS]

The one Italian player I look forward to watching is Gattuso....that guy hits the field and just goes apeshiit, man. I wish the US team had an equivalent player off the bench. Seems like every time I see Gattuso, he's around the ball or making something happen.

They do and his name is Jermaine Jones. Too bad his injury troubles kept him out. While he's not as high profile as Gattuso, he's very much the bulldog in the middle. A healthy Jones and a healthy Davies might have been enough to make the USA serious contenders.

[ajzepp]

They do and his name is Jermaine Jones. Too bad his injury troubles kept him out. While he's not as high profile as Gattuso, he's very much the bulldog in the middle. A healthy Jones and a healthy Davies might have been enough to make the USA serious contenders.

 

I totally forgot about J.Jones....would have been nice to see him playing!

[meazza]

The one Italian player I look forward to watching is Gattuso....that guy hits the field and just goes apeshiit, man. I wish the US team had an equivalent player off the bench. Seems like every time I see Gattuso, he's around the ball or making something happen.

 

TBH i don't know why gattuso is there. He seriously had a terrible season. He was great in his youth but I think his age has caught up to him. I don't think you'll see him unless De Rossi gets injured (please no )

[Ramius]

I have to admit, there's one good thing about those damn horns. I hate them so much it has driven me to root against every single african team in the Cup.

 

I'll also admit that i watched a chunk of Japan vs Cameroon and that was a more entertaining game.

[ajzepp]

I have to admit, there's one good thing about those damn horns. I hate them so much it has driven me to root against every single african team in the Cup.

 

I'll also admit that i watched a chunk of Japan vs Cameroon and that was a more entertaining game.

 

I don't know what his name is, but one of the Cameroon players had a RIP of shot that smashed into the crossbar. A few inches lower and that would have been a sick goal....same thing happened to Ronaldo today