Marv - worst GM in history of NFL?

[DrDawkinstein]

does this thread prove that R. Rich is crayonz? uncanny ability to make people believe his jokes?

[Orton's Arm]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

I don't know enough about GMs in general to comment about Marv's standing WRT the rest of them. Instead, let's look at the resources he had and what he did with them.

 

Free agent signings. I think we're all agreed that he consistently overpaid for second- or third rate free agents, and that there are no success stories at all in this category. Larry Triplett, Tuten Reyes, and Melvin Fowler aren't exactly the stuff of which Super Bowl legends are made.

 

Choice of head coach. Jauron's coaching career here was a failure; and he's now a DB coach.

 

First day draft picks: Donte Whitner, John McCargo, Ashton Youboty, Marshawn Lynch, Paul Posloszny, Trent Edwards. There's only one starter on that list--Poz. Everyone else is a failure to one degree or another--especially Whitner, McCargo, and Youboty!

 

Second day drat picks: Most of these guys are forgettable--as is the case for other teams' second day picks as well. But a few names worth noting are Brad Butler, Kyle Williams, Keith Ellison, and Derek Schouman. Given Butler's recent retirement, Williams is the only starting-caliber player on that list.

 

To sum up, what are Marv's success stories?

Coaching: none

Free agent signings: none

First day draft picks: Poz.

Second-day draft picks: Kyle Williams.

 

That's not very much to show for a two year period as GM. Especially considering that Marv began his tenure here with the 8th overall pick. I'd guess that that track record places him among the bottom 5% of GMs over the last 30 years. However, I'd need to do more research about what other GMs typically achieve to feel certain about that conclusion.

[DrDawkinstein]

I would just add the caveat that once the starters and/or backups declare themselves out, the alternates are selected by the coaches and not by the order of fan/player voting. In a way being selected by the coaches to play in the game better validates a player's credentials to be there as it has nothing to do with the popularity vote of the fans and players. It's the popularity vote aspect of the Pro Bowl process that makes it less than it once was.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

very interesting point. hadnt thought about that.

[R. Rich]

does this thread prove that R. Rich is crayonz? uncanny ability to make people believe his jokes?

 

 

Haha!!

 

Nah. All it proves is that I need to keep such comments to PMs or spell out the sarcasm for those who may misread it.

[Alaska Darin]

I hope I didn't come off like a jerk (I know I did actually), but dude, it's just kind of weird that you're a obviously a very casual football fan yet you have dedicated a good chunk of your life to posting on a football talk board. I know a ridiculous amount about football and you literally have over 40 times more posts than me. For instance, I kind of like the show Frasier. It's OK, I know a little about it; if it's on, I might watch a re-run here and there, but I don't make 20,000 posts on a Frasier website.

Dude, Rich has forgotten more about football than you'll ever know. Be smart enough to know when you're being !@#$ed with.

[tony320]

dave littlefield destroyed the pirates with all those great #1 overall picks

he is the worst

 

coach purses

[BillsfaninFl]

Surely you're not suggesting that being a scout hardly qualifies one to be a GM, are you? Because if you are you may be surprised that nearly every GM has his roots in scouting in some wasy shape or form. Yes there are other facets to the job other than talent evaluation but when it comes to a GM having a keen eye for football players, it's most likely due to his time served as a scout.

 

Will Buddy Nix be a good GM? Don't know. But that will depend on how he handles other facets of the GM job. In the meantime, I'll rest easy knowing we have one of the best scouts to at least handle that aspect of the position. His ability to scout and find football players is unquestioned.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I offered no opinion on Buddy Nix's qualifications. My point was that all the GMs since Donahoe have had the job in name only. Ralph Wilson clearly stated that he was never going to relinquish such power to a GM again. Ralph is a meddling owner who has dragged his organization down to the NFL basement. I made the point in response to the statment that Marv did a terrible job. In other words, I'm saying that you can't judge the job that any of the three guys did/are doing because they do not have the full power that other GMs have. It's comparable to being the head coach in Oakland. Al Davis does not allow them to do well because he meddles. In my opinion, the best GM in the game right now (whomever you think that is) would not be able to do their job well in Buffalo because of Wilson.

[Meathead]

for the jillionth time, judging marv by conventional gm standard is just plain ignint

 

temp gm - everybody on the planet knew he was a temp gm cuz that were the terms he gave to take the job. that automatically makes it essentially a consultant role. and as a consultant you architect a framework and let people WHOSE JOBS IT IS to make the decisions under that framework. in case you missed it, that means YOU DONT MAKE THE DECISIONS YOURSELF

 

draft picks - so he comes in from the announcer booth and is supposed to be making draft picks?!? very obviously, he left that up to THE PEOPLE WHOSE JOBS IT WAS to make those picks. he probably had close to zero involvement in that entire process

 

free agents - same exact argument. the only criticism of free agent choices while he was here could be that they overpaid. but theres no guarantee that marv made that decision either. it could have been that whoever recommended those guys also came up with the offer figures (it was john guys job then and he just got fired)

 

choosing jauron - ok, this one was levy and he whiffed. it was the LONE exception of marv making a decision for the club and it obviously didnt work out

 

everybody forgets the organization was in major dysfunctional crisis when marv came on as a fake gm/consultant. and in his short time here he was able to pull the franchise out of the ***t and prevent it from sinking. that alone was a major accomplishment. for the two years he was here and for at least a season after that, the organization made a dramatic turn back to general functionality, another major accomplishment

 

the coaching hire was an F. everything else he did was an A. so overall he gets a C+. which of course is completely different from the 'marv screwed this organization' bullcrap that is so mindnumbingly popular with the fan experts

 

yes, ignint

[GG]

More of an inside joke to KRC, as we both get a laugh out of the Sportscenter generation's opinion on the history of the game, which usually starts from Super Bowl I.

 

Don't know this KRC dude, but his 45 yr history of the game sure beats the crowd here whose NFL history is framed by LT, the running back.

[Orton's Arm]

the coaching hire was an F. everything else he did was an A. so overall he gets a C+. which of course is completely different from the 'marv screwed this organization' bullcrap that is so mindnumbingly popular with the fan experts

What is this "everything else" of which you speak, and which supposedly brings Marv's overall grade as GM up to a C+? Did this "everything else" result in better player acquisition? If so, what players? Did it result in a better coaching staff? A better front office group? Show me some form of tangible result of this "everything else," tell me what, specifically, Marv did to achieve it, and describe how it's improved this team's long-term ability to be competitive.

 

Perhaps by "everything else" you mean that Marv's name got people excited, and caused them to buy season tickets they otherwise wouldn't have purchased. The things is that if you give people false hopes often enough, and subsequently dash them often enough, they'll eventually become disillusioned. I'll remind you that Jauron was fired in the middle of the season because the Bills' fan base was on the verge of reaching that state of cynicism and emotional abandonment of their team.

 

As for the bad things that happened while on Marv's watch: ultimately, he bears responsibility for those things. Either for making the bad decisions himself, or else choosing the front office people who made those bad decisions for him. The only potentially viable excuse for any of that is the one someone else mentioned earlier: the extent to which the mistakes were caused by Ralph Wilson's interference. If you and your staff has targeted a future Pro Bowler for your first round pick, and if Ralph Wilson barges into the room and forces you to take a Donte Whitner or a John McCargo instead, there's not much you can do about it (except resign). But I have not seen actual evidence that Wilson has interfered to the degree that would imply.

[sharper802]

I think your rant misses the point as even if you judge Marv as horrible it really only reflects on the real issue which is the team owner Mr. Ralph.

 

Marv's results simply stand as a double indictment of the team owner as in the end it is the big guy who writes the big checks for failures like Langston Walker and Dockery and who was it who made judgment to hire what you call the worst GM in NFL history in the first place.

 

Actually if one really wants to make an accurate assessment then who deserves the blame for firing GM Polian, for having such a toxic relationship with Butler he left the Bills in completely horrible shape with the timing of his departure or even worse if he tanked his last draft with a far worse choice than Whitner was.

 

Mr. Ralph then added insult to injury by hiring TD and totally failing to manage some clear flaws in his strategy (TD seemed to hire GW with a goal of not getting run out of town by a successful HC he hired as he was with Cowher and then showed the utter toxicity of him managing the GM situation by having to fire TD.

 

You seem to pretty much miss the point by poking the corpse of Marv.

I agree RW deserves his share of the blame

[sharper802]

For God's sake, get some perspective.

 

What is eating away at your insides to make you think that? Seriously.

 

1. I am still seathing that Marv got thoroughly outoached in four SuperBowls

2. Therebye wasting the greatest collection of talented football players Buffalo will ever see

3. And he still made the Hall of Fame

4. And he is another example in a long list of poor decisions made by Ralph (the only good decision he made was not letting Marv coach again)

5. Thus setting back the franchise another few years in what is likely to be the last chapter of the Bills

[spartacus]

1. I am still seathing that Marv got thoroughly outoached in four SuperBowls

2. Therebye wasting the greatest collection of talented football players Buffalo will ever see

3. And he still made the Hall of Fame

4. And he is another example in a long list of poor decisions made by Ralph (the only good decision he made was not letting Marv coach again)

5. Thus setting back the franchise another few years in what is likely to be the last chapter of the Bills

 

this is all true

 

the real weakness with Marv were the marginal staffs he assembled.

Outside of Marchibroda, Marv was pretty incompetent in bringing in top coaches- and Ted was probably here because of Polian.

[Nanker]

Haha!!

 

Nah. All it proves is that I need to keep such comments to PMs or spell out the sarcasm for those who may misread it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Just went back and read what I missed when I posted earlier.

There could be coffee on my monitor screen that I'm wiping off now.

I'm just sayin'.

[K-9]

I offered no opinion on Buddy Nix's qualifications. My point was that all the GMs since Donahoe have had the job in name only. Ralph Wilson clearly stated that he was never going to relinquish such power to a GM again. Ralph is a meddling owner who has dragged his organization down to the NFL basement. I made the point in response to the statment that Marv did a terrible job. In other words, I'm saying that you can't judge the job that any of the three guys did/are doing because they do not have the full power that other GMs have. It's comparable to being the head coach in Oakland. Al Davis does not allow them to do well because he meddles. In my opinion, the best GM in the game right now (whomever you think that is) would not be able to do their job well in Buffalo because of Wilson.

 

Gotcha now re RW's meddling. When I read your quote "now we have a scout making believe" I thought you were speaking to Nix's ability to adapt to the GM position. Thanks for the clarification.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Gabe Northern]

You seem to forget Losman had some really good games in 06 and was projected to have a really good 07 but then Steve Fairchild left and Turd Schonert took over and things went downhill.

 

Um, yeah. Craig Menefee said at the start of the 07 campaign that he couldn't believe how down the coaches were on Losman. Had to simplify the systenm dramatically in 2006 (not Schonert) just so he could comprehend it. Also did not allow him to audible even though the system was based on changing the play based on the defense's response to the specific package.

 

So let's not get into nonsensical projections of 2007...he had some games in 2006 that looked good...they involved tossing the ball 50 yds in the air and having Lee run under it...the team knew it was never getting any better than that.

 

Marv brought in Craig Nall in 2006 and drafted Edwards in 2007...not bad, but should have drafted Cutler.

[Sisyphean Bills]

this is all true

 

the real weakness with Marv were the marginal staffs he assembled.

Outside of Marchibroda, Marv was pretty incompetent in bringing in top coaches- and Ted was probably here because of Polian.

Having a smaller, athletic defense built to win in the AFC, and particularly against Dan Marino and the Fins, didn't hold up against the road grader OLs of the NFC East of the day. To fix it, they drafted defensive backs and James Patton.

[bbb]

I think Marv was just a figurehead GM.

[Bob in STL]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

 

 

Marv is not even in the top three worst GMs in Bills history.

 

Reyes and Anderson were not Marv's.

 

Horrible comment about Bill Walsh BTW.

[PearlHowardman]

I think your rant misses the point as even if you judge Marv as horrible it really only reflects on the real issue which is the team owner Mr. Ralph.

 

Thank you!

 

It's just so amazing that Bills fans here still continue to be taken in by Ralph Wilson. Year after freakin' year! RW brings in a big name every once in a while (Levy, Drew Bledsoe, TO) and SUCKER Bills fans line up to buy tickets.

 

Ralph Wilson couldn't care less about producing a winning football team. His only goal is to make as much money as possible with the least expenses.