What You Need To Know About the Potential Lockout

[Mr. ChumChums]

Great, informative article written by Tim Graham.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/200...&id=4874641

 

Really fills in lots of holes in my knowledge.

[PromoTheRobot]

Great, informative article written by Tim Graham.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/200...&id=4874641

 

Really fills in lots of holes in my knowledge.

ESPN, even Tim Graham, has developed a sudden case of amnesia about how Ralph Wilson tried to warn the other owners this was a bad deal. After all how can an old coot like Ralph, a guy helped make the NFL what it is today, teach anything to whiz-kids like Kraft, Snyder and Jones?

 

I hope the other NFL in mid-sized NFL markets think twice before hitching their wagons to the "Gang of Three."

 

PTR

[Mr. ChumChums]

ESPN, even Tim Graham, has developed a sudden case of amnesia about how Ralph Wilson tried to warn the other owners this was a bad deal. After all how can an old coot like Ralph, a guy helped make the NFL what it is today, teach anything to whiz-kids like Kraft, Snyder and Jones?

 

I hope the other NFL in mid-sized NFL markets think twice before hitching their wagons to the "Gang of Three."

 

PTR

 

You're right, I completely forgot about that.

 

Wasn't it also Mike Brown, owner of the Bengals, that voted against opting out of the CBA? People all over were bashing the two of them for being stuck in their "small market nonsense"....

[Gabe Northern]

ESPN, even Tim Graham, has developed a sudden case of amnesia about how Ralph Wilson tried to warn the other owners this was a bad deal. After all how can an old coot like Ralph, a guy helped make the NFL what it is today, teach anything to whiz-kids like Kraft, Snyder and Jones?

 

I think the decision to disregard Ralph had a lot to do with him "talking his own book." He knew (or was told by Littman) the percentages allocated to players were such that he'd have no hope of ever reaching the cap based on the non-shared revenue he could generate in Buffalo. Their response was more of "why don't you move out of a poor area?" rather than questioning his santity.

 

You are right that the keys to this are KC, Cincy, Pittsburgh, and other cities whose economies are more than 2X as large as WNY but still much to small to accomodate the insane money-making schemes of Jones, Synder, etc.

[NoSaint]

I think the decision to disregard Ralph had a lot to do with him "talking his own book." He knew (or was told by Littman) the percentages allocated to players were such that he'd have no hope of ever reaching the cap based on the non-shared revenue he could generate in Buffalo. Their response was more of "why don't you move out of a poor area?" rather than questioning his santity.

 

You are right that the keys to this are KC, Cincy, Pittsburgh, and other cities whose economies are more than 2X as large as WNY but still much to small to accomodate the insane money-making schemes of Jones, Synder, etc.

 

 

I remember a quote along the lines of "why dont we take some time and make sure we try to understand what we are signing?"

 

If memory serves, the whole thing came together so quickly that it was near impossible that anyone had gone through it very detailed, ralph voted no - sighting that they should be patient and make sure it was a good deal. Everyone came out saying he was too old to understand what was going on....

[DarthICE]

ESPN, even Tim Graham, has developed a sudden case of amnesia about how Ralph Wilson tried to warn the other owners this was a bad deal. After all how can an old coot like Ralph, a guy helped make the NFL what it is today, teach anything to whiz-kids like Kraft, Snyder and Jones?

 

I hope the other NFL in mid-sized NFL markets think twice before hitching their wagons to the "Gang of Three."

 

PTR

 

The problem is Ralph has made his own bed in regards to how he is thought of in the NFL (see this coaching issue...) So when he actually tried to warn them and was right, they flat ignored him.

 

This going to end in a strike of the normal players, and scrubs being played for the 2011 and most likely the 2012 seasons while the players start going broke and the owners keep making money. the Players never win in this situation.

[DarthICE]

After reading the article I say lock their asses out and play scrubs. NFL salaries have gotten out of hand esp rookies who have yet to prove anything.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

After reading the article I say lock their asses out and play scrubs. NFL salaries have gotten out of hand esp rookies who have yet to prove anything.

 

Yep, a rookie cap is most definitely where this needs to start. I firmly believe the rookie issue is why the bottom teams can't get better. The top five rookies from last year are averaging 11.36 million per year. St. Louis gave Tyson Jackson 5yr/57mil and 31mil guaranteed, and they get 27 solo tackles, 11 assists, and 0 sacks. How can you get better shelling out that much coin for that little production?

 

Then when he gets better in years 4-5, the Redskins sign him as a FA.

[PromoTheRobot]

After reading the article I say lock their asses out and play scrubs. NFL salaries have gotten out of hand esp rookies who have yet to prove anything.

The Re-Replacements!

 

PTR

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Wasn't Browns reasons dfor voting against it different than RW's?? Seems I recall he had a different agenda??

[berriesandcream]

Yep, a rookie cap is most definitely where this needs to start. I firmly believe the rookie issue is why the bottom teams can't get better. The top five rookies from last year are averaging 11.36 million per year. St. Louis gave Tyson Jackson 5yr/57mil and 31mil guaranteed, and they get 27 solo tackles, 11 assists, and 0 sacks. How can you get better shelling out that much coin for that little production?

Then when he gets better in years 4-5, the Redskins sign him as a FA.

 

Tyson Jackson went to KC, but good point. What incentive do these rookies have to get better? Most of them are only interested in the money and the lifestyle. Once they get their money, they are done.

[KD in CA]

I remember a quote along the lines of "why dont we take some time and make sure we try to understand what we are signing?"

 

If memory serves, the whole thing came together so quickly that it was near impossible that anyone had gone through it very detailed, ralph voted no - sighting that they should be patient and make sure it was a good deal. Everyone came out saying he was too old to understand what was going on....

 

Just like healthcare reform legislation!

[nucci]

Just like healthcare reform legislation!

or the Patriot Act.

[sullim4]

If the owners are the ones who lock out the players, can they put in replacements?

 

They definitely can if the players strike, but if the owners are the ones refusing to let the players on the field, I wonder what labor law has to say on the subject of replacement players.

[The Wiz]

The Re-Replacements!

 

PTR

Was on TV yesterday right before the pro bowl. Replacements was much better.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Money is everything. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As far as the rookie deals are concerned, I would think that guys who are 6, 7, 8 year vets and longer would be all about the rookie cap. Keep the money in the league. I got to believe that everyone will be on the same, or similar page on that front. Beyond that, the owners need to step back and realize that this "business risk" they're taking is not that big of a risk. The NFL is the number professional sports league in this country and they only way that'll change is if they lock the players out. It happened to Baseball, Hockey and Basketball. All locked out/strike and all were hurt by it, all have recovered because Time Heals, but for a while people resented those sports. I, for one, liked the NBA until the Lock out. I got really into college basketball and now cannot stand the NBA. We'll see what happens. It'll be interesting for sure.

[BillsfaninFl]

If the owners are the ones who lock out the players, can they put in replacements?

 

They definitely can if the players strike, but if the owners are the ones refusing to let the players on the field, I wonder what labor law has to say on the subject of replacement players.

 

The players' startegy would be to disenfranchise the union and seek to disable the NFL's sweet deal with the government.

This threat of legal recourse is their main source of power in the negotiations. So a strike is highly unlikely.

[8-8 Forever?]

Money is everything. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As far as the rookie deals are concerned, I would think that guys who are 6, 7, 8 year vets and longer would be all about the rookie cap. Keep the money in the league. I got to believe that everyone will be on the same, or similar page on that front. Beyond that, the owners need to step back and realize that this "business risk" they're taking is not that big of a risk. The NFL is the number professional sports league in this country and they only way that'll change is if they lock the players out. It happened to Baseball, Hockey and Basketball. All locked out/strike and all were hurt by it, all have recovered because Time Heals, but for a while people resented those sports. I, for one, liked the NBA until the Lock out. I got really into college basketball and now cannot stand the NBA. We'll see what happens. It'll be interesting for sure.

 

very interesting indeed. and ralph will have like no costs if the league stops. stadium paid for, etc etc. guys like Jones, et al have billion $ stadiums to pay for.. owners will be under pressure to cave .. should be interesting...

[gobillsinytown]

I remember a quote along the lines of "why dont we take some time and make sure we try to understand what we are signing?"

 

If memory serves, the whole thing came together so quickly that it was near impossible that anyone had gone through it very detailed, ralph voted no - sighting that they should be patient and make sure it was a good deal. Everyone came out saying he was too old to understand what was going on....

 

I remember it specifically: Ralph said they gave the owners 45 minutes to go through the document. 45 minutes for a legally binding contract that will affect business for the next 7 years? Of course, most of the owners didn't like it either but did not comment becasue they thought they would be cast in a negative light. Ralph doesn't care about that. So he was slammed by juvenille reporters as being too senile to understand the agreement.

 

Afterwards, Mike Brown in Cincinnatti and the owner of the Jags publicly came out in favor of Ralph's position.

Jerry Jones and Snyder were portrayed as being unsympathetic to the small market owners' position.

 

What Jerry and Dan don't realize is that the NFL is the dominant sport in the US because of the unique collaborative nature of the NFL that almost all the other professional leagues have tried to emulate, none as successfully as professional football.

 

By NFL owner standards, Jones and Snyder are punks. They want to continue to increase their profits without having to sacrifice. That's not the NFL's original concept. The original concept was that as an owner, you already had plenty of money from your other business ventures and that NFL ownership was something you did out of a love for the game of football. Of course, the world has changed and professional football has geometrically grown as has the money involved.

 

I think a deal will get done, because even punks like Jones, Snyder and Kraft realize that an agreement needs to be in place to maintain stability. Right now there's a lot of posturing and fear-mongering going on, but eventually a deal will get done.

[Dan]

I remember it specifically: Ralph said they gave the owners 45 minutes to go through the document. 45 minutes for a legally binding contract that will affect business for the next 7 years? Of course, most of the owners didn't like it either but did not comment becasue they thought they would be cast in a negative light. Ralph doesn't care about that. So he was slammed by juvenille reporters as being too senile to understand the agreement.

 

Afterwards, Mike Brown in Cincinnatti and the owner of the Jags publicly came out in favor of Ralph's position.

Jerry Jones and Snyder were portrayed as being unsympathetic to the small market owners' position.

 

What Jerry and Dan don't realize is that the NFL is the dominant sport in the US because of the unique collaborative nature of the NFL that almost all the other professional leagues have tried to emulate, none as successfully as professional football.

 

By NFL owner standards, Jones and Snyder are punks. They want to continue to increase their profits without having to sacrifice. That's not the NFL's original concept. The original concept was that as an owner, you already had plenty of money from your other business ventures and that NFL ownership was something you did out of a love for the game of football. Of course, the world has changed and professional football has geometrically grown as has the money involved.

 

I think a deal will get done, because even punks like Jones, Snyder and Kraft realize that an agreement needs to be in place to maintain stability. Right now there's a lot of posturing and fear-mongering going on, but eventually a deal will get done.

I agree with pretty much exverything you said; save one concept. IMO these guys want to win - at all costs. They're in markets that allow them to charge more for tickets, luxury boxes, shirts, advertising, etc. They want all that money in their pocket so they can bring in every and any player they want. Essentially, they want to buy a championship.

 

What they don't realize is that having a strong league is what makes their team as valuable as it is. Take half the teams out of the league and you don't cut today's pie among 16 teams. Today's pie gets drastically reduced because it leads to overall less interest, less watching, less revenue created. They just don't get it.

 

Likewise the players have become overly greedy. Yes, the sport doesn't exist without them and they should be paid accordingly. But, there's a tipping point. If they get paid too much, it becomes hard for half the teams to compete. Therefore, you get the same scenario as above. A few good teams, many bad teams. Decreased interest, less watching, less revenue and their popularity declines. They just don't get it either.

 

I'm not sure the answer. But, I'd think taking the existing player money pool and just redistributing it so that proven vets get more than incoming rookies seems fair.