nostyle126 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 It's not even the fact that he is the all-time leader in sacks it's the numbers he put up in a 3-4 defense. That's kind of irrelevant. DEs in a 3-4 can put up sack stats just fine. If you want to play that game, you could say that he had an advantage over other DEs because 90% of the time his team was playing with the lead, giving him more chances to tee off on the QB than most DEs normally have. Think Dwight Freeney, always getting the opportunity to rush the QB, because Manning and the Colts' offense always give them a lead to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I agree, Fergie only attempted a little more than 100 pass attempts the whole season, O.J. was the whole offense, the defense knew it, and he still had the best season any running back has ever had, and probably ever will have. OJ was great but I wasn't gonna say it because that's not what this threads about but here it is did Barry Sanders ever have a supporting cast. they are tied for greatest all time if anything Barry edges him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 That's kind of irrelevant. DEs in a 3-4 can put up sack stats just fine. If you want to play that game, you could say that he had an advantage over other DEs because 90% of the time his team was playing with the lead, giving him more chances to tee off on the QB than most DEs normally have. Think Dwight Freeney, always getting the opportunity to rush the QB, because Manning and the Colts' offense always give them a lead to play with. you really don't know anything about football do you the next closest in that style defense doesn't even have triple didgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 OJ's 1975 season was more impressive than what he did in 1973 u r correct sir.'75 was his greatest season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 you really don't know anything about football do you the next closest in that style defense doesn't even have triple didgets. Reggie White, Leslie O'neal, and Neil Smith all played in 3-4s at points in their careers. And NONE of them had the offense Bruce had to let them all-out pass rush like Bruce could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Reggie White, Leslie O'neal, and Neil Smith all played in 3-4s at points in their careers. And NONE of them had the offense Bruce had to let them all-out pass rush like Bruce could. He did it for almost all of his career your arguing with nfl network and espn and I looked into it myself as best as I could. Just to give you an idea Richard Seymour has 43 sacks over his 9 year career Bruce had 106 over the first 9 years of his career and only played in 5 games for one of those seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Reggie White, Leslie O'neal, and Neil Smith all played in 3-4s at points in their careers. And NONE of them had the offense Bruce had to let them all-out pass rush like Bruce could. Neither Reggie White nor Neil Smith played in 3-4s. Not sure about O'Neal, but I don't think he played any 3-4 in his "significant" years. As for Reggie White, the Packers offense was probably better than the Bills at their best. Granted, he racked up most of sacks in Philly, but he still had some 3 or 4 primo years in GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 He did it for almost all of his career your arguing with nfl network and espn and I looked into it myself as best as I could. Just to give you an idea Richard Seymour has 43 sacks over his 9 year career Bruce had 106 over the first 9 years of his career and only played in 5 games for one of those seasons. To be fair, Seymour - a truly great player - shouldn't be compared with Smith. Their teams asked them to do different things. Seymour was a dominant run stopper along with many other things. He's not as good as Smith, but basing the comparison on sack stats isn't fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Neither Reggie White nor Neil Smith played in 3-4s. Not sure about O'Neal, but I don't think he played any 3-4 in his "significant" years. As for Reggie White, the Packers offense was probably better than the Bills at their best. Granted, he racked up most of sacks in Philly, but he still had some 3 or 4 primo years in GB. Neil Smith and O'Neal played most, if not all, of their careers in a 4-3. And White had an amazing supporting cast in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 To be fair, Seymour - a truly great player - shouldn't be compared with Smith. Their teams asked them to do different things. Seymour was a dominant run stopper along with many other things. He's not as good as Smith, but basing the comparison on sack stats isn't fair. that's what a DE is measured by like it or not one of the networks did a comparison of DE's and his tackles were even more eye poping unfortunatle NFL.com didn't do the home work this network did I haven't been able to find it online anywhere. As far as seymour that's my whole point Bruce rushed the passer and stopped the run. if i am not mistaken that is the whole idea behind the 3-4 is that 3 larger line men clog the holes the pass rush threat comes from the OLBs thats why his numbers are so impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Bruce is the best DE to ever play in the NFL, as his sack record affirms. By comparison, TT and OJ were great, but not in NFL's top 10 all time RB's. Same for kelly, best bills qb but not one of the 10 best QB's in NFL history. Bruce was a first ballot HOF'er. Bruce is the best Bills player ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Neil Smith and O'Neal played most, if not all, of their careers in a 4-3. And White had an amazing supporting cast in Philly. Did I say otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 that's what a DE is measured by like it or not one of the networks did a comparison of DE's and his tackles were even more eye poping unfortunatle NFL.com didn't do the home work this network did I haven't been able to find it online anywhere. As far as seymour that's my whole point Bruce rushed the passer and stopped the run. if i am not mistaken that is the whole idea behind the 3-4 is that 3 larger line men clog the holes the pass rush threat comes from the OLBs thats why his numbers are so impressive. Measured by whom? Not by me, that's for sure. I watch the games and make my own judgments. Seymour is (was?) a truly great player. Certainly not as great as Smith, but great nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Did I say otherwise? Calm down. I was agreeing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Squirrel Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I believe the only argument against it is that Ed 'too tall' Jones might've had more sacks than Bruce if they had kept sacks as a stat back then. I think you mean David "Deacon" Jones; "Too Tall" wasn't even the best pass rusher on his own team; that would have been Harvey Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 He did it for almost all of his career your arguing with nfl network and espn and I looked into it myself as best as I could. Just to give you an idea Richard Seymour has 43 sacks over his 9 year career Bruce had 106 over the first 9 years of his career and only played in 5 games for one of those seasons. Since you struggled so much to research this and are relying on ESPN, I'll give you just an idea of what I'm talking about. Take Neil Smith. He played for a Chiefs team that always ran a 3-4. You might recall they had Dan Saleamua in the middle playing NT. Derrick Thomas was their Cornelius Bennett. Neil Smith put up some nice numbers as a DE in that 3-4, and the Chiefs NEVER had the offense that we did. Leslie Oneal played as both DE and OLB in the Chargers' 3-4 before they later converted to a 4-3 with Seau taking the MLB role. Reggie White spent his early career in a 4-3 double eagle defense, I grant you that, but he did play in a 3-4 with Green Bay (remember big NT Gilbert Brown) from 1993 to 1998, racking up 68.5 sacks over that span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I think you mean David "Deacon" Jones; "Too Tall" wasn't even the best pass rusher on his own team; that would have been Harvey Martin. You're right, Deacon Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Bruce is the best DE to ever play in the NFL, as his sack record affirms. By comparison, TT and OJ were great, but not in NFL's top 10 all time RB's. Same for kelly, best bills qb but not one of the 10 best QB's in NFL history. Bruce was a first ballot HOF'er. Bruce is the best Bills player ever... huhh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 OJ Simpson - everyone else a distant 2nd. regarding Thurman thomas I can argue he's only the 4th best RB we ever had behind Cookie & OJ & Joe Cribbs Cribbs was 4 yrs and 4 probowls....returned punts and led the Bills in both receiving and rushing in 1983. Thurman had good fortune to come along as the RB in the no huddle....while Thurman was taken out of the game on 3rd downs his rookie year....joe Cribbs was running & receiving and returning punts to a start in the pro bowl his rookie year starting alongside earl campbell... In general I think the players from the Knox era are a bit overlooked when it comes to all time selections Possible the dumbest posts I've read on here definitely top 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide_right Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 How about Joe Delamilure? i dont think any bill olineman was as respected, so yes, joe d as far as olinemen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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