Avatar! yawn

[ajzepp]

DAMMIT I love movies!!

 

Good thread, guys!

 

I cannot believe that Avatar is already the 2nd highest grossing film in history...unreal! I have yet to see it, but will probably hit the IMAX next week. I'm a little discouraged hearing all the, "special effects were great, but the story was severely lacking" comments out there. It's hard enough for me to sit still for almost three hours in the theater, let alone doing it for a movie that isn't engaging.

 

Cameron apparently just said there will definitely be another Avatar film, and he envisions it to be a trilogy.

[John Adams]

I am not saying just make something just for yourself. BUT make something good just make it the highest quality possible don't worry about how to sell toys, don't worry about trying to hire the right actor to promote your movie, don't worry about trying to get the right rating so teenagers can see it, and don't worry about trying to appeal to the right demographics either.

 

Make something that is just of high quality, don't worry about selling tickets just worry about making a movie that is so good that many people will want to go see it purely based on how good it is. I just feel that appealing to as many people as possible is not an art but a business practice. ET appealed to a lot of people because it was an excellent movie not because Speilberg tried to make a popular movie.

 

Much of that makes no sense though. Avatar is a movie kids can see...but it's about adults getting killed. To make it "real," you'd have to show people yelling "F---" a lot and having their guts ripped out. Is it a sell out to dampen the language and whitewash the violence so more kids can see it because it's not R-rated? Is that really a sell-out? Not in my book--I see that as making a fun story available to more people.

 

Is it business? Yes--but it's also art. Cameron wanted to make a movie that more people (people who won't watch gruesome violence or language) could see. I mean: is Sesame Street a sell-out and not art because many urban street corners have drug dealers on them but there are none on Sesame Street?

[billsfan89]

Much of that makes no sense though. Avatar is a movie kids can see...but it's about adults getting killed. To make it "real," you'd have to show people yelling "F---" a lot and having their guts ripped out. Is it a sell out to dampen the language and whitewash the violence so more kids can see it because it's not R-rated? Is that really a sell-out? Not in my book--I see that as making a fun story available to more people.

 

Is it business? Yes--but it's also art. Cameron wanted to make a movie that more people (people who won't watch gruesome violence or language) could see. I mean: is Sesame Street a sell-out and not art because many urban street corners have drug dealers on them but there are none on Sesame Street?

 

You missed my point if Cameron made changes to Avatar just to sell toys then thats hurting the product. Not having over the top violence isn't exactly hurting the product in fact that could have been an artistic decision. Jamming in Jar Jar Binks to a movie in order to appeal to kids hurts the movie.

 

I feel like if you make changes to a movie for marketing purposes then its not an artistic decision its a business decision and your movie looses its artistic credibility at least a little. Its not about being realistic its just about making something good. You don't let business factors influence the content of the movie if you truly want to be art. Like I said its fine if you want to make money and every director might have to make compromises due to the studio but thats the business side of making movies.

[Astrojanitor]

Much of that makes no sense though. Avatar is a movie kids can see...but it's about adults getting killed. To make it "real," you'd have to show people yelling "F---" a lot and having their guts ripped out. Is it a sell out to dampen the language and whitewash the violence so more kids can see it because it's not R-rated? Is that really a sell-out? Not in my book--I see that as making a fun story available to more people.

 

Is it business? Yes--but it's also art. Cameron wanted to make a movie that more people (people who won't watch gruesome violence or language) could see. I mean: is Sesame Street a sell-out and not art because many urban street corners have drug dealers on them but there are none on Sesame Street?

 

These are odd points in that film is representation and not reality. Realism is forbidden the moment Cameron creates a giant blue alien. Check out a movie called "The Hired Hand," a Peter Fonda western from 1970-something. In the film he attempted to show realistic death--and it comes off as goofy. Hyper realism doesn't work in film, if it did every movie would be hard core pornography. A sell out would be shoehorning a Jar jar Binks character into a narrative--a character whose sole purpose is merchandising. Cameron does not do that at all--dude isn't a sell out by any stretch of the imagination. He makes giant big screen entertainments that many (including me) find to be empty.

[GoodBye]

DAMMIT I love movies!!

 

Good thread, guys!

 

I cannot believe that Avatar is already the 2nd highest grossing film in history...unreal! I have yet to see it, but will probably hit the IMAX next week. I'm a little discouraged hearing all the, "special effects were great, but the story was severely lacking" comments out there. It's hard enough for me to sit still for almost three hours in the theater, let alone doing it for a movie that isn't engaging.

 

Cameron apparently just said there will definitely be another Avatar film, and he envisions it to be a trilogy.

Come I come along? I wouldn't mind seeing it in 3D this time.

[ajzepp]

Come I come along? I wouldn't mind seeing it in 3D this time.

 

Yep, c'mon!

[GOBILLS78]

Umm... I thought it was good?

[Rico]

DAMMIT I love movies!!

 

Good thread, guys!

 

I cannot believe that Avatar is already the 2nd highest grossing film in history...unreal! I have yet to see it, but will probably hit the IMAX next week. I'm a little discouraged hearing all the, "special effects were great, but the story was severely lacking" comments out there. It's hard enough for me to sit still for almost three hours in the theater, let alone doing it for a movie that isn't engaging.

 

Cameron apparently just said there will definitely be another Avatar film, and he envisions it to be a trilogy.

I saw it in 3D at the IMAX right after Christmas & thought it was a blast. Don't try to over-analyze things & just have fun.

[Dan]

We saw it last night. My wife absolutely loved it! I thought it was pretty good. Yes, the story is a little tired, but it was still a well told story.

 

I think sometimes people get hung up on too many of the technical aspects of movies and forget that some movies are just something to take your mind to a different place for a little while. In that sense, this was a great movie. Yes, this story has been told many times over, but so has Romeo and Juliet. Should we all just watch the orginal Shakepeare play or is it ok to enjoy the Westside Story or Romeo Must Die?

[WellDressed]

We saw it last night. My wife absolutely loved it! I thought it was pretty good. Yes, the story is a little tired, but it was still a well told story.

 

I think sometimes people get hung up on too many of the technical aspects of movies and forget that some movies are just something to take your mind to a different place for a little while. In that sense, this was a great movie. Yes, this story has been told many times over, but so has Romeo and Juliet. Should we all just watch the orginal Shakepeare play or is it ok to enjoy the Westside Story or Romeo Must Die?

 

Directed by another graduate of the Lodz film school. He should stick to his DP gigs though.

[bartshan-83]

Saw it tonight in 3-D...wouldn't mind seeing it again without the glasses to see how it compares.

 

I expected C movie and A+ visuals. I think it was way better than people give it credit for. I was thoroughly entertained and actually enjoyed the rather routine story so I could focus my energy on soaking up the sheer gorgeousness of the scenery. I was definitely consciously aware of the excessive length, but I found myself relieved it didn't end sooner.

 

Great experience....definitely one for the theater.

 

 

 

And I'll add that I avoided reading this thread until I saw the movie, but was amazed at the discussion the last 5 pages have contained. Very entertaining reading.

[DC Tom]

My apologies if I said it was a historically accurate drama. Obviously, Dunbar was not based on a real person and I don't claim to know enough about the Sioux or their language (which I know was a big issue as far as accuracy) ... I just meant that the film portrays the era and the plight of the Native Americans more than getting it 100% accurate.

 

Actually, what I meant when I said it wasn't even remotely historical is that it doesn't portary the era and plight of Native Americans with anything resembling accuracy. The whole idea of the "wise and noble savage living an idyllic lifestyle in touch with nature" is a post-imperialistic invention of the Western World. In reality, a semi-nomadic lifestyle of the plains is a hard, dirty, brutish, and brief life. If Dances With Wolves had shown the Sioux as perenially sick and malnourished (when not outright starving), with a 40%+ child mortality rate and virtually no adults over the age of 40, then it would start to be historically accurate.

 

Which is not something I blame the movie for - it wasn't a documentary, it was a morality play. Historical accuracy wasn't germane to the story.

[Simon]

Although for my money both Cameron and Speilberg made exactly one good film each (Terminator and Duel, respectively). I find their films to be insufferable melodramas with explosions.

I don't know squat about filmmaking but saying that Spileberg only made one good film is a little over the top don't ya think?

From the moment those guys get on the boat, Jaws became fantastic.

Close Encounters is always one of my favorites.

Saving Private Ryan was a really good show.

You've already dismissed Schindler's List but I thought it was really effective.

Even the first Indiana Jones movie wasn't bad (although the rest were unbearable).

 

Are they all full of poorly done filmmaking devices that a layman doesn't pick up on or something? I'm pretty picky about movies but even I liked all 5 of those.

[Astrojanitor]

I don't know squat about filmmaking but saying that Spileberg only made one good film is a little over the top don't ya think?

From the moment those guys get on the boat, Jaws became fantastic.

Close Encounters is always one of my favorites.

Saving Private Ryan was a really good show.

You've already dismissed Schindler's List but I thought it was really effective.

Even the first Indiana Jones movie wasn't bad (although the rest were unbearable).

 

Are they all full of poorly done filmmaking devices that a layman doesn't pick up on or something? I'm pretty picky about movies but even I liked all 5 of those.

 

Jaws is considered the film that ended the American New Wave and began the age of the blockbuster....so us film snob types tend to hold a grudge. What really bugs me is his sentimentality. I find his films very manipulative. The very last shot of Schindler's List is, to me, the ultimate Spielberg moment in that it is both meaningless and exists only to make you cry. I find him too clean, too edgeless, too consistently old fashioned.

 

I love Duel and am endlessly amused by Jurassic Park 2 and that's about it for me. Although my Close Encounters problem is 100% Richard Dreyfuss (I cannot stand that guy) and I never saw Raiders of the Lost Ark. The film people I know hate his manipulation. There's a suspicion of filmmakers doing the thinking for the viewer (by that I mean something like Spielberg's tendency to use swelling music over shots of sad children in order to push the sad button). That heavy handedness is the problem with the people that take these kinds of things far too seriously.

[Kiwi Bills fan]

Just got back from taking me son to see it and I have to admit, I loved it.

The new 3D effects just blew me away, along with the incredible amount of creativity that went into it.

 

2 big thumbs up.