dhg Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Maybe I missed something, and I am quite sure I did, but how did Jacob get off and back on the island to interact with the O6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 That's how I felt, as well. The mythology is what we've been building up to, but the results felt rushed and to be honest, amateurish. Questions abound. If MIB is dead and needs a 'host body' to manifest himself as human, why do we see him sitting next to Jacob on the beach in the "I've found a loophole scene?" Who are the 'smart people' who enlighted MIB about how to manipulate the light? An on and on... There's a lot to wrap up in the final 3.5 hours and I hope the storyline is better than last night... youre going in the opposite direction. we've got our taste/glimpse into the beginning of it all. there is no need to ask any more questions about the past/mythology because everything that matters to our story has been explained. except for maybe the rules of the game. im assuming, since MiB's body was never buried, that Smokey could take his form. that one is pretty simple if you apply what we've been given so far. contrary to belief, we have NOT been building towards the mythology. the mythology was simply an explanation to the start of our story. the real story is about the LOSTies in modern times. it's time to move forward in time. not back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Maybe I missed something, and I am quite sure I did, but how did Jacob get off and back on the island to interact with the O6? now THIS is a good question. we might never find out, and you'll just have to figure that given his powers, he might have been able to come and go. might just have to chalk it up like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 now THIS is a good question. we might never find out, and you'll just have to figure that given his powers, he might have been able to come and go. might just have to chalk it up like that. Perhaps because he was the "chosen on" he has powers to do whatever needs to be done to protect the island...and in this case, bring potential candidates in. And don't forget that MIB can't leave because he's Smokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 contrary to belief, we have NOT been building towards the mythology. the mythology was simply an explanation to the start of our story. the real story is about the LOSTies in modern times. it's time to move forward in time. not back. Sorry, that doesn't work for me. The 'story' has been about solving the mystery of the island. Why it was important and why the events over the past 6 years have mattered. Now that the mystery's been solved, I frankly feel less inclined to care about whoever ends up as the protector, since it's just checkout counter metaphysics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Perhaps because he was the "chosen on" he has powers to do whatever needs to be done to protect the island...and in this case, bring potential candidates in. And don't forget that MIB can't leave because he's Smokey. agreed. we'll just have to "KEEP THE FAITH" that he has special powers given his position. and that is a fine explanation as far as im concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 We weren't given the names of Allison Janney's character, nor of MIB. We also were not told here, but it's in the air everywhere that the time of Claudia's arrival to the island was 23 AD. Beautiful, it was 23 AD and they were speaking English. I guess you have to suspend reality about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Sorry, that doesn't work for me. The 'story' has been about solving the mystery of the island. Why it was important and why the events over the past 6 years have mattered. Now that the mystery's been solved, I frankly feel less inclined to care about whoever ends up as the protector, since it's just checkout counter metaphysics... ok, well, this is what we got, so now what? you're done watching the show? were you really expecting the writers to come up with some new type of science/religion? do you think that would have really satisfied you? i just think it's a good explanation and a good setup to see how the remaining few episodes play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Beautiful, it was 23 AD and they were speaking English. I guess you have to suspend reality about everything. glad you brought this up. they were not speaking english, the were speaking latin. the producers showed this, and then transitioned into english so we would not have to read subtitles through the entire episode. but you can assume that they were actually speaking latin to each other the entire time. i thought it was a cool way they did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 glad you brought this up. they were not speaking english, the were speaking latin. the producers showed this, and then transitioned into english so we would not have to read subtitles through the entire episode. but you can assume that they were actually speaking latin to each other the entire time. i thought it was a cool way they did that. My wife brought up the same question as it happened and that's exactly explanation I gave her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 ok, well, this is what we got, so now what? you're done watching the show? were you really expecting the writers to come up with some new type of science/religion? do you think that would have really satisfied you? They've had 3 years to develop a script, so yeah, I would have liked a denouncement more in keeping with the quality of the show's best work. I'll watch for the same reason I suspect a lot of people remain with the show--it's now about the characters/cast more than the plot. The brilliance of the original casting will be the lasting legacy of Lost, long after the plot fades from memory, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 The episode answered questions but at the same time just didn't feel it moved us to getting an ultimate answer as to again the purpose of the island and why exactly why MIB's trapped on it etc. I mean how/why did pseudo mom make it so Jacob/MIB couldn't kill one another? Count me in the camp that didn't like the episode with the exception of the introduction to the lovely actress who played Jacob and the nameless MIB's birth mother. She was a site to see and rather seen her for most of the episode instead of Alison Janey. again, just like the character said, every answer will only lead to another question. you just have to have faith. how did mom make it so they couldnt kill each other? she used some magic powers. where did those powers come from? she got them by being the keeper of the island. how did she become keeper of the island?... and on and on and on... it's like they said in my post on the last page, you really dont want an exact explanation. because there really is none. at some point you HAVE to chalk it up to being magical god-like powers when it comes to mythology. or else youre just going to end up with the question "Who is God? Where did (s)he get those powers from?" etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Ack I can't put into words what I want to say about this episode. Frustration because the questions they answered weren't the one's I ultimately wanted answered or perhaps I didn't like the answer to some of the questions. As basically Smokey is Smokey because he was pushed into the light by Jacob. Well maybe I"m dense but what exactly is the light to begin with? Once again it seems Jacob is portrayed as being God like, see young MIB's comment about it's easy to "judge people when your sitting on top of a mountain watching them" or whatever it was. Yet at the same time he was human until pseudo-mom did whatever she did to prevent him and MIB from hurting one another. I'm in the camp that didn't like it as perhaps as was looking for more concrete answers then mythology as still haven't wrapped my brain around this episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 again, just like the character said, every answer will only lead to another question. you just have to have faith. That's fine, but it could have been a lot more elegant if they'd allocated more time (more than 45 minutes, anyway) to play out their MacGuffin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Ack I can't put into words what I want to say about this episode. Frustration because the questions they answered weren't the one's I ultimately wanted answered or perhaps I didn't like the answer to some of the questions. As basically Smokey is Smokey because he was pushed into the light by Jacob. Well maybe I"m dense but what exactly is the light to begin with? Once again it seems Jacob is portrayed as being God like, see young MIB's comment about it's easy to "judge people when your sitting on top of a mountain watching them" or whatever it was. Yet at the same time he was human until pseudo-mom did whatever she did to prevent him and MIB from hurting one another. I'm in the camp that didn't like it as perhaps as was looking for more concrete answers then mythology as still haven't wrapped my brain around this episode. the light is the spirit energy, the light of life, the energy which is inside every living thing. there is no scientific, molecular explanation. the fact that Jacob/MiB were once mortal humans shows that any of the candidates CAN become the next keeper. that you dont have to be born into a God Heritage. you guys are being very Season 1 Jack about this. yall need to be more Season 6 Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 again, just like the character said, every answer will only lead to another question. you just have to have faith. how did mom make it so they couldnt kill each other? she used some magic powers. where did those powers come from? she got them by being the keeper of the island. how did she become keeper of the island?... and on and on and on... it's like they said in my post on the last page, you really dont want an exact explanation. because there really is none. at some point you HAVE to chalk it up to being magical god-like powers when it comes to mythology. or else youre just going to end up with the question "Who is God? Where did (s)he get those powers from?" etc... Thanks for answering but I deleted that post as my following post again describes my frustration with this episode. In terms of having faith, that an interesting subject as everyone's faith is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 you guys are being very Season 1 Jack quality about this. yall need to be more Season 6 Jack rush job Sorry, I'm just fun'n ya It will still be a rush to see where this ends up, but more like the one after the 5th time on the rollercoaster, rather than the first (for me). Back to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 it's like they said in my post on the last page, you really dont want an exact explanation. because there really is none. at some point you HAVE to chalk it up to being magical god-like powers when it comes to mythology. or else youre just going to end up with the question "Who is God? Where did (s)he get those powers from?" etc... I agree. To me, the central theme of the show has been “man versus his flawed nature.” The whole purpose of the Hanso Foundation/Dharma Initiative/Valenzetti Equation has been to identify and correct the malfunction in human nature that seems to always lead to self-destruction. And this is apparently the nature of Jacob’s game with his brother. It makes for great drama. However, I get the impression from some fans that they actually expect this TV show to provide a real solution to this problem. It’s like human history will forever be divided... The pre-Lost era, when there were wars and suffering and then we achieved absolute paradise on Earth thanks to J.J. Abrams, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, the saviors of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Also makes you think about when it was that Locke turned the wheel near the Orchid station. After another timeflash, the well was filled with dirt. It's also quite possible that the explanation of the light / wheel isn't over yet. I feel that Ben may have more to add. But if an further explanation doesn't happen, is that so bad? We've lived with a fair amount of vaguery since the start, we live with vaguery every day. Some things don't require a molecular-level description --- it's enough to understand the basic precepts. This may very well be a place where as Lindelof explained, we'll have to just accept, similar to "The Force" in Star Wars. Was it necessary to see why the detonation fuse blew out on the Black Rock? Do we need to have a flashback to 1830 at the fuse's building to see that there was a malfunction in the process? No. All we need to know is that the fuse went out. What happened / needed to happen, happened. And as an addition to that, when Locke turned the wheel.... Christian was already down there. Actually, no. I'm sorry. Locke fell down the well, there was a timeflash where Sawyer tried to jump down but the well was filled in, and then Locke turned the wheel. OK. So Christian need not have been there whenever that flash took place (I believe the open well was the same time flash where the Tawaret statue was still standing). the craziest thing, imo, is that MiB wants so badly to go "home" yet he has no idea what home is. the Island is all he's ever known. kinda seems foolish. In that way, it really seems like the Claudia apparition was akin to a Tree of Knowledge. And yet, whereas Jacob was fairly simple-minded and unquestioning, MIB sensed it all the while. MIB was "special," had the gift of being able to lie.... I also think Island Woman's attachment to MIB was that he was unexpected by Claudia. She only had one name, and it was given to Jacob. IW perhaps figured that she could call dibs on MIB or that he was some kind of a gift from the universe. And I suppose, in a way, he was. MIB was/is part of what needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Why did you like it? If you talk about it a little maybe that'll help me see it in a different light. I just thought it was way too ambitious and tried way too hard. It didn't even really feel like it related to the rest of the story or the other characters, to be honest. Sometimes the more I think about something after the fact, the more I get it and the more I like it. That's what happened with the final Sopranos episode. Once I "got it", I saw it as a brilliant piece of tv making. But I don't have the same confidence here....I think this was a complete and total drop of the ball. BTW, what is with MIB's obsession with getting off the island? Didn't his dead mom tell him he was from the other SIDE of the island, which is why he went to live with those people to begin with? Why is he so adamant about leaving? And wtf is this idea that "channeling water and light" with a donkey wheel will somehow be his ticket off the island? I don't get it... Wow, lot's of disagreement on this episode! I had no idea it would be so fractious. I liked it because it was an entertaining episode. I liked knowing MiB's motivations, Jacob's motivations, etc. And I liked knowing that they were once human and transformed into what they are now. I came to terms long ago that not every question will be answered, am I'm OK with that. If this is where we are left with the explanation of the origins of the island and such, that's fine. However, we still have 3 1/2 hours to go before this show's over, so I'm not going to say we won't know anymore about the donkey wheel or the light. Having MiB explain to his mother in that scene how it would work would probably not have made sense for the characters there, because she probably knows exactly how everything works, so nothing needs to be said. An explanation might come to some other characters later who do, in fact, need to get off the island, but if it doesn't come, I have no problem with that. As for MiB's obsession with getting off the island, wouldn't anybody be obsessed with it? You find out, from your ghost mom, that who you thought was your mom had been lying to you for ~12 years about who you were and everything you knew. You discovered she killed your real mom, too, so you totally turn your back on her and the island, wanting to get away. When, 30 years later, you are so close to achieving your goal you can taste it, she dupes you into trusting her one last time before destroying everything you had been working on for all that time, your one goal, and kills all your friends. Then, you get back at her, only to get your ass kick and your body destroyed and turned into a monster, forced to live for eternity on a place you hate with someone you hate. I think his obsession with getting off the island makes complete sense. But, if people don't like it, they don't like it, it's all a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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