Coach55 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ponder this - it seems most times teams have a dynasty, it is following a series of abysmal seasons. Bills had back to back 2-14 seasons before becoming great. Cowboys had a 3-13, followed by a 1-15 before beginning their dynasty. Colts - back to back 3-13 seasons. San Francisco - back to back 2-14 seasons. I am not saying that it is always like this, but most of the real good dynasties started as almost a fresh slate as the front office basically dumped everyone and started new and put together a strong core. I think if you are a team that floats between 6-10 and 10-6 for long periods of time, you basically get stuck in a rut and can have a "good" core, but never great. You may make the playoffs on occasion, but you'll never fully get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 It helps if it allows you to draft Troy Aikman or Peyton Manning. Or Matt Ryan to use a recent example. Of course, the Bills always manage to squeak out 6 or 7 wins so they can have another cornerstone like Lynch, Whitner or Maybin. It also helps if you actually have a plan for building a winning team like those other franchises you mentioned, rather than just a blind squirrel approach to the draft and free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ponder this - it seems most times teams have a dynasty, it is following a series of abysmal seasons. Bills had back to back 2-14 seasons before becoming great. Cowboys had a 3-13, followed by a 1-15 before beginning their dynasty. Colts - back to back 3-13 seasons. San Francisco - back to back 2-14 seasons. I am not saying that it is always like this, but most of the real good dynasties started as almost a fresh slate as the front office basically dumped everyone and started new and put together a strong core. I think if you are a team that floats between 6-10 and 10-6 for long periods of time, you basically get stuck in a rut and can have a "good" core, but never great. You may make the playoffs on occasion, but you'll never fully get there. It hasnt worked for the Detroit Lions so it blow the thoery out of the water. What ends up making a team great is the management/coaching/ scouting players. Buffalo wasnt good until Polian took the helm, Colts were not good until Pollian took the helm, THe pats were not good until Parcells put them on the map and Belicheat found Brady In not digging into everyones history but you will find its a person or two in the frontoffice/Coaching staff that makes a team great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grelit Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 It helps if it allows you to draft Troy Aikman or Peyton Manning. Or Matt Ryan to use a recent example. Of course, the Bills always manage to squeak out 6 or 7 wins so they can have another cornerstone like Lynch, Whitner or Maybin. It also helps if you actually have a plan for building a winning team like those other franchises you mentioned, rather than just a blind squirrel approach to the draft and free agency. Lynch, Whitner or Maybin...LOL.. When will the misery of being a Bills fan end...ugh I honestly would'nt trust the Bills scouting department with the #1 overall pick...they would find a way to screw it up.... Its not where they draft, its who they draft...scouting sucks on a pro and college level....John Guy is a joke, he laughs all the way to the bank on payday......what a waste!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ponder this - it seems most times teams have a dynasty, it is following a series of abysmal seasons. Bills had back to back 2-14 seasons before becoming great. Cowboys had a 3-13, followed by a 1-15 before beginning their dynasty. Colts - back to back 3-13 seasons. San Francisco - back to back 2-14 seasons. I am not saying that it is always like this, but most of the real good dynasties started as almost a fresh slate as the front office basically dumped everyone and started new and put together a strong core. I think if you are a team that floats between 6-10 and 10-6 for long periods of time, you basically get stuck in a rut and can have a "good" core, but never great. You may make the playoffs on occasion, but you'll never fully get there. At the base point, you are correct. But I would feel much more at ease if the Bills had a front office in place and capable, football men running the team. One thing also true about teams that are building, is that they gradually improve each and every year. It is a process, but clearly there is a plan. What exactly is the plan at OBD? The men in charge of such a plan, John Guy and Tom Modrak, have produced little to no improvement during their tenure. Looking at Buffalo's past drafts, in years 2000-2005 there are only 6 players from those drafts still on the roster. Out of 50 players selected during those years, only 6 within 6 years are still with the club 3 years later. That's a 12% rate of return. That is certainly not any way to build a team. Buffalo's success with its 1st round draft picks this decade is just as bad. The Pro Personnel department is just as horrendous. They allow players like Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, and London Fletcher go. Then they sign Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker, Robert Royal, Larry Triplett, and tried to pursue Darwin Walker. All, are no longer with the team. Again, that is a horrible track record and certainly not one to feel well about. The Bills are once again facing a crossroads. Schobel- arguably our most consistent defensive end since Bruce left- is only getting older. Kelsay- overpaid though he may be- is now hitting the 30 plateau. Stroud is not getting younger. With the exception of Williams and Maybin, who do the Bills currently have on the roster set to take over? McCargo is a bust, and was a reach as a 1st round pick. The only reason that the Bills took him back after he failed his physical with the Colts was because of his 1st round draft status. The LB corp is just as bad. Poz may be the sole bright spot for the future. Ellison is too small, but I do have faith in Nic Harris. The secondary with McElvin, Whitner, and Bryd seems to be the only depth position on defense. The offense needs tackles that can play. a QB that can read, react, and move the chains. Simply put, I see the Bills as always chasing themselves to catch up and fill holes on the roster. They never are in control of their destiny and truly in a position to build. I think that is the fault of having no plan. And I believe that falls squarely on Brandon, Modrak, and Guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ponder this - it seems most times teams have a dynasty, it is following a series of abysmal seasons. Bills had back to back 2-14 seasons before becoming great. Cowboys had a 3-13, followed by a 1-15 before beginning their dynasty. Colts - back to back 3-13 seasons. San Francisco - back to back 2-14 seasons. I am not saying that it is always like this, but most of the real good dynasties started as almost a fresh slate as the front office basically dumped everyone and started new and put together a strong core. I think if you are a team that floats between 6-10 and 10-6 for long periods of time, you basically get stuck in a rut and can have a "good" core, but never great. You may make the playoffs on occasion, but you'll never fully get there. That's depends on what you call rock bottom. While the Lions have been losing for as long as the Bills, last season's 0-16 was truly rock bottom. Which allowed them to draft Stafford, the future depends on him. If he's a star, they can build around him, and the Lions will be good in the next couple years. If he's a bust, they will continue to suffer. The Bills need to draft a stud QB, will their draft position afford them to do that? Have the Bills hit rock bottom? I freakin' hope so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamRoller67 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Yes, you need to bottom out. But, you must hit on your high draft picks as well....no Mike Williams type bust at 4 overall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 No see the Steelers. When was the last time they bottomed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ponder this - it seems most times teams have a dynasty, it is following a series of abysmal seasons. Bills had back to back 2-14 seasons before becoming great. Cowboys had a 3-13, followed by a 1-15 before beginning their dynasty. Colts - back to back 3-13 seasons. San Francisco - back to back 2-14 seasons. I am not saying that it is always like this, but most of the real good dynasties started as almost a fresh slate as the front office basically dumped everyone and started new and put together a strong core. I think if you are a team that floats between 6-10 and 10-6 for long periods of time, you basically get stuck in a rut and can have a "good" core, but never great. You may make the playoffs on occasion, but you'll never fully get there. So what does back to back to back to back 7-9 seasons bring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 The fingerprint for each franchise is fairly clear when you simply look to the owner, IMO! Dan Snyder wins the mythical March Super Bowl with his wild spending frenzies, but his TEAM is a mess come September, as a rule. The Cowboys are ingrained with the arrogant moniker of America's Team, and their owner is ALL ABOUT self promotion. The Arizona Cardinals are essentially Bill Bidwill throughout the history of this club, except that now, his son is more "hands-on" than his dear old dad. The Pittsburgh Steelers are fan bliss because they "get it" and know that continuity is key!! THAT blueprint is the road to success, with the caveat that the road to your future championship is likely to run through Pitsburgh, PA. at some juncture!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Naa, some teams have stunk for years and gone nowhere even drafting #1 over and over. The Saints, Lions, Jags, Texans, Browns have never been to a super bowl. Some teams like the Cardinals have been at rock bottom for decades and only recently when the owner (Bill Bidwell) let his sons take over did the organization finally become decent. How many years have the Cleveland Browns been drafting in the top 10 for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Just because bottoming out doesn't guarantee you a return to the top doesn't mean that getting to the top doesn't require bottoming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'm going to use "appeared in conference championship game" as a barometer of greatness, just for the sake of argument: 2008: Arizona, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore. Arizona certainly spent some time along the bottom, and has Larry Fitzgerald to show for it. I think he's a huge part of why that team every got anywhere. Philly turned a 3-13 season into Donovan McNabb, though Garcia and Feely have shown that the team might be as good without him. Pittsburgh's only recent high draft pick is Roethlisberger, but he's still a result of mediocrity, not disaster. Baltimore's been consistent. 2007: New England, San Diego, New York, Green Bay The Giants and Chargers were running off top-5 picks in the same drafts. However, San Diego would be fine if they still had Brees instead of Rivers, so arguably, they really wasted the top-5 pick there. On the other hand, replace top-5 LaDanian Tomlinson with a generic, mid-round RB and it gets a little bit tougher. I think that really, both those teams got where they are because of bottoming out, although I suppose Kurt Warner has shown he's still got some stuff, and he might have remained the Giants QB without Manning. The Patriots never really bottomed out in composing their current team, and Green Bay also was dependent on no top-5 picks. 2006: Indianapolis, New England, Chicago, New Orleans Patriots as above, Colts obviously depend on their #1 overall pick. The Bears never bottomed out to get to where they were at the point, and while the Saints had a #2 overall pick in Reggie Bush, he hasn't been the kind of superstar that that pick would suggest. 2005: Steelers, Broncos, Seattle, Carolina Steelers as above. Broncos were going of Plummer and Mike Anderson for this one - that was a team that had no recent bad seasons. Seattle and Carolina also were perennial mid-level teams, though the Panthers really needed #2 pick Julius Peppers to get them in gear. 2004: Patriots, Steelers, Eagles, Falcons. Patriots and Steelers and Eagles - no changes. Falcons were really dependent on Vick at this point, for whom they traded up from #5. I'd say that counts. 2003: Patriots, Colts, Eagles, Panthers Nothing new here. So, New England, Pittsburgh, Denver, Seattle, Chicago, New Orleans, Green Bay, and Baltimore did it without bottoming out, while Indianapolis, Philadelphia, Carolina, Atlanta, San Diego, the Giants, and Arizona requires a trip to the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDogg20 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 So what does back to back to back to back 7-9 seasons bring? Another 7-9 season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Look at the Oakland Raiders.... They have been picking in the top 5 consistentnly the last 6-7 years and still are mediocre with no end in sight...In today's NFL actually if you do not get your lottery picks correct, it hurts them for a long time.....Jamarcus Russells contract is going to hurt the raiders big time if he ends up being a bust. The money invested in him is just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 No see the Steelers. When was the last time they bottomed out? Fair point, even though a 6-10 season allowed them the opportunity to draft Big Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Look at the Oakland Raiders.... They have been picking in the top 5 consistentnly the last 6-7 years and still are mediocre with no end in sight...In today's NFL actually if you do not get your lottery picks correct, it hurts them for a long time.....Jamarcus Russells contract is going to hurt the raiders big time if he ends up being a bust. The money invested in him is just too much. If? He might be the worst QB I have ever seen. But good point about the Raiders. If the FO doesn't know what it's doing, having high picks doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 No see the Steelers. When was the last time they bottomed out? Just what I was going to say. They've won more SBs than any other team, have been consistent playoff contenders and haven't bottomed out in, what, decades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I'm going to use "appeared in conference championship game" as a barometer of greatness, just for the sake of argument: 2008: Arizona, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore. Arizona certainly spent some time along the bottom, and has Larry Fitzgerald to show for it. I think he's a huge part of why that team every got anywhere. Philly turned a 3-13 season into Donovan McNabb, though Garcia and Feely have shown that the team might be as good without him. Pittsburgh's only recent high draft pick is Roethlisberger, but he's still a result of mediocrity, not disaster. Baltimore's been consistent. 2007: New England, San Diego, New York, Green Bay The Giants and Chargers were running off top-5 picks in the same drafts. However, San Diego would be fine if they still had Brees instead of Rivers, so arguably, they really wasted the top-5 pick there. On the other hand, replace top-5 LaDanian Tomlinson with a generic, mid-round RB and it gets a little bit tougher. I think that really, both those teams got where they are because of bottoming out, although I suppose Kurt Warner has shown he's still got some stuff, and he might have remained the Giants QB without Manning. The Patriots never really bottomed out in composing their current team, and Green Bay also was dependent on no top-5 picks. 2006: Indianapolis, New England, Chicago, New Orleans Patriots as above, Colts obviously depend on their #1 overall pick. The Bears never bottomed out to get to where they were at the point, and while the Saints had a #2 overall pick in Reggie Bush, he hasn't been the kind of superstar that that pick would suggest. 2005: Steelers, Broncos, Seattle, Carolina Steelers as above. Broncos were going of Plummer and Mike Anderson for this one - that was a team that had no recent bad seasons. Seattle and Carolina also were perennial mid-level teams, though the Panthers really needed #2 pick Julius Peppers to get them in gear. 2004: Patriots, Steelers, Eagles, Falcons. Patriots and Steelers and Eagles - no changes. Falcons were really dependent on Vick at this point, for whom they traded up from #5. I'd say that counts. 2003: Patriots, Colts, Eagles, Panthers Nothing new here. So, New England, Pittsburgh, Denver, Seattle, Chicago, New Orleans, Green Bay, and Baltimore did it without bottoming out, while Indianapolis, Philadelphia, Carolina, Atlanta, San Diego, the Giants, and Arizona requires a trip to the bottom. Interesting. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 No see the Steelers. When was the last time they bottomed out? They don't crash and burn but they did hit a low point which allowed them to take Ben. They did their homework took a solid quarterback to fit their plan and got right back on top. It starts at the top in any organization. Someone who knows how to make a vialble plan and then execute it. As Marv says it is simple but it ain't easy. Paraphrasing obiviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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