Shooting unarmed, injured enemy combatants ...

[SilverNRed]

Finally saw it and it's not half as bad as I imagined. It seemed like the Marine in question did it because he felt threatened, not because he wanted to kill someone.

 

If you see how they move on to the next guy, and especially how the Marine takes a couple steps back when the injured Iraqi reaches for him, it's clear they recognize the injured and 'dead' Iraqis as a threat and for good reason.

[GG]

I guess I am...but there are so many people on here that know so much about war and combat...never even took a step in a military boot....they are so lame

121000[/snapback]

 

Again, the difference is in the viewpoints.

 

Notice you're sticking up for the person who fired the first volley in this thread, by completely trashing any reasonable action taken by the Marine, vs posts directed at you asking to compare the difference of your situation vs the urban combat in Fallujah.

 

Please take off the blinders.

[DC Tom]

I guess I am...but there are so many people on here that know so much about war and combat...never even took a step in a military boot....they are so lame

121000[/snapback]

 

 

I brought up what I felt is a very valid point. Your response isn't to correct any misconceptions I might have, but to essentially call me a !@#$ing idiot? Go to hell. I don't even pretend that I've served, I respect the hell out of those who have, I've studied the subject for decades. I know a lot on the subject...but I don't serve, I haven't served, and I won't be condescended to for it by the likes of you.

[Thurman's Helmet]

So its okay for the left to convict this guy based on a quick video without understanding the context in what was going on?

 

I'd say the guys fighting on OUR side deserve the benefit of the doubt wouldnt you? SUPPORT THE TROOPS and all that jazz right?

 

 

Memo to the left; You cant fight a war in a monday morning quarterback/courtroom hindsight sort of way. If our boys over there start second guessing themselves, they'll come home in bodybags.

 

 

And for any one of us who wasnt there to say what should have and should NOT have been done is simply ridiculous.

[ExiledInIllinois]

So its okay for the left to convict this guy based on a quick video without understanding the context in what was going on?

 

I'd say the guys fighting on OUR side deserve the benefit of the doubt wouldnt you?    SUPPORT THE TROOPS and all that jazz right?

Memo to the left;  You cant fight a war in a monday morning quarterback/courtroom hindsight sort of way.    If our boys over there start second guessing themselves, they'll come home in bodybags.     

And for any one of us who wasnt there to say what should have and should NOT have been done is simply ridiculous.

121087[/snapback]

 

Hey... I am not convicting him!

 

Don't paint us with a braod brush... If you do, you are just as guilty as the next.

[Thurman's Helmet]

Hey... I am not convicting him!

 

Don't paint us with a braod brush... If you do, you are just as guilty as the next.

121100[/snapback]

 

Fair enough, I should have said it wasnt right for ANYONE to convict one of our own.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Fair enough, I should have said it wasnt right for ANYONE to convict one of our own.

121116[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks... I understand what these guys have to do. I could care less if they pumped twenty rounds into a stiff.

 

Sh*t happens in war.

 

I think it was one of the WWII docus that they explained the fighting in the pacific. At times both sides turned into animals. One Chaplain was explaining how he confronted a soldier digging out the gold fillings on a dead Japanese soldier. He set that soldier straight... That's all you can do.

 

Again, full open dialog... skip the judgement on the soldier... Save it for policy.

[Typical TBD Guy]

For the record:  Petrino sent this message at lunchtime & couldn't get back because he had to work the rest of the day.  When I went downstairs to the 3rd floor his boss was at his desk, so he wasn't about to say to his boss "Sorry-I have to reply to the gang at Two Bills Drive"  His cat bit through his phone wire that attaches the computer to the internet & he won't have home internet until tommorrow.

120890[/snapback]

 

That's fine. We can wait.

[SD Jarhead]

Hey Petrino :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: you spineless jellyfish.

 

As for VaBledsoefan double :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: ...you should know better, Billy Badass...nice of you to pass judgement on someone who you have no f-in clue about. FTR, I don't perceive you as arrogant, just an idiot.

 

Keep weakening our country...

 

In the future, please consider "Lead, Follow or STFU!"

[Jack_USN]

I truly believe that the decision to have EMBEDDED journalists with front line

military units is back-firing. Initially, I believe that they were there to

dispute any kind of false reporting by the enemy. NOW, al jazzera is

using our own pool video and running it on a loop to fire up the Islamic

militants of the world.

 

Things happen in combat. Things that sometimes ARE NOT very nice and

shouldn't be front page headlines. Its a fuggin war folks, and the bad guys

are cheating. I hope every single one of our young MARINES over there

take the same stance as this young man. I hope he will be backed by

his chain of command, but I doubt it. I watched the video and I would

have done the same damn thing. I hope he gets a good lawyer. And

I hope he beats this.

 

And BTW, I have boarded Iraqi ships as well on the non-compliant

boarding team as security chief. Dont get dramatic dude, it is not

anywhere near as dangerous as Faluja is. Get a freaking grip.

[Jack_USN]

Oh, and I forgot to say...Petrino..your a fugging idiot.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Really they were just out frolicking in the Shire and couldn't be bothered.

120906[/snapback]

 

 

*wicked evil laugh*

[alg]

I know Darin..sorry I should have added that....just gets my goat....i did mean to sound arrogant about what i had to do in a combat zone.

121003[/snapback]

 

I am one of those that have not had military service, and I can appreciate what you are saying. I missed the Vietnam War draft by 2 years, and could not bring myself to give up a summer for bootcamp in the early 80's since I had a mortgage to pay. In a way I wish they would institute a draft where you had a choice of civil or military service - we all miss something as people and as a nation w/o having participated. We also can better judge the cost of war when such a decision has to be made.

 

In my defense (since I am pro Iraq war) I was in many fights growing up, been attacked with a swithblade, and had someone point a gun at my head at short range. Growing up in Buffalo was tougher then you think.

[Alaska Darin]

Hey Petrino, did your cat bite through your carotid too? Or will Harv be the one responding to this post with some other lily-livered pansy excuse for your sorry ass?

[VABills]

Hey Petrino, did your cat bite through your carotid too?  Or will Harv be the one responding to this post with some other lily-livered pansy excuse for your sorry ass?

129928[/snapback]

Darin, I never knew you were an Elephant.

[Alaska Darin]

Darin, I never knew you were an Elephant.

130006[/snapback]

I ain't. Just an ****.

[_BiB_]

I just read this thread for the first time. Has anyone stopped to think that this kid knew there was a TV camera there from (gasp) CBS? If he didn't feel this was a completely justifiable action I doubt he would have capped the guy. I probably wouldn't have left five alive on the first go around.

 

Just take Petrino for what he is. It's not worth the heartburn. People like him will never know, never understand and are likely to never try to learn. There's a lot of other people who work real hard to make sure that the Petrinos of this world can continue to think and opine this way. That's the nature of this country at this point in time. They want to live in some surreal ideology land, fine. I live in reality. I'm sure Mr. Petrino would consider me quite the war criminal if he knew my day to day. Fortunately, he doesn't, nor will he ever, count.

[DC Tom]

I just read this thread for the first time. Has anyone stopped to think that this kid knew there was a TV camera there from (gasp) CBS?

130031[/snapback]

 

"Knew"? Or knew?

 

Honestly...I have my doubts that, if he felt it necessary to shoot, he indulged himself the luxury of worrying about the proximity of any cameras. Any awareness of the media he otherwise had was most likely far removed from his consciousness in his perception of an immediate threat.

 

In other words...I doubt he really knew at the time a camera was present.

[Campy]

Don't know if you guys have seen this. I thought it was interesting.

 

NBC war reporter Kevin Site's "Letter To The Devil Dogs Of 3.1"

[UConn James]

Don't know if you guys have seen this.  I thought it was interesting.

 

NBC war reporter Kevin Site's "Letter To The Devil Dogs Of 3.1"

130135[/snapback]

 

When the smoke clears, I can see through my viewfinder that the fire is burning beside a large pile of anti-aircraft rounds.

 

I yell to the lieutenant that we need to move. Almost immediately after clearing out of the house, small explosions begin as the rounds cook off in the fire.

 

If he were a truly objective journalist, literally just being a witness, he would have said nothing and let the Marines die.

 

But you guys can keep telling yourselves that journalists hate the soldiers and America....

 

(BTW -- I really recommend "Dispatches" by Michael Herr if you can find it. It's basically one long, run-on sentence, but it's a great chronicle.)

[_BiB_]

If he were a truly objective journalist, literally just being a witness, he would have said nothing and let the Marines die.

 

But you guys can keep telling yourselves that journalists hate the soldiers and America....

 

(BTW -- I really recommend "Dispatches" by Michael Herr if you can find it. It's basically one long, run-on sentence, but it's a great chronicle.)

130304[/snapback]

 

Dispatches was a very good book. I read it about 20 years ago. Didn't know it was still around.

[Alaska Darin]

But you guys can keep telling yourselves that journalists hate the soldiers and America....

130304[/snapback]

The embedded journalists have a much different perspective because they have experience. Your blanket statement is wholly unfair.

[UConn James]

Dispatches was a very good book. I read it about 20 years ago. Didn't know it was still around.

130348[/snapback]

 

Read a small excerpt for a class and the reaction was, 'Wow!' Had to go to Amazon b/c I couldn't find it in any bookstores. I've since mentioned it to a couple of English profs (damn gen-eds, but they were good guys) I had as a companion reading to "The Things They Carried."

 

My uncle who did two tours would never talk about it. I left that on his porch once (not entirely by accident) and he called me a couple of days later....

[Paco]

Sorry to bump this up, but I've been gone for a bit and was catching up on this thread to see what Petrino had to say to everyone's responses. Last I read, the cat ate his homework, and he would be back to respond to everyone once his internet connection was up.

 

He's still not back?

[Thailog80]

Sorry to bump this up, but I've been gone for a bit and was catching up on this thread to see what Petrino had to say to everyone's responses. Last I read, the cat ate his homework, and he would be back to respond to everyone once his internet connection was up.

 

He's still not back?

132185[/snapback]

 

 

Must've been a big kitty...........I mean the one that ate his internet connection.

 

[_BiB_]

Must've been a big kitty...........I mean the one that ate his internet connection.

 

 

132190[/snapback]

 

 

And why do I think he just might figure that Artest got a raw deal?

[VABills]

I think someone needs to do an ode to PIA. I am not that talented in such things, but I am sure that we can some up with some descriptive four letter word rhymes. :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

[Lori]

Just so you guys know - I talked to Harv in Lot 1 Sunday, and Petrino was skipping the game to take care of a serious medical emergency in the family. For all I know, he may not even be back in Albany yet. No joke.

 

Hope everything's OK, John.

[DC Tom]

Just so you guys know - I talked to Harv in Lot 1 Sunday, and Petrino was skipping the game to take care of a serious medical emergency in the family. For all I know, he may not even be back in Albany yet. No joke.

 

Hope everything's OK, John.

132967[/snapback]

 

Well...frankly, although his opinions aren't worth a bucket of warm stevestojan, I hope all's okay with his family.

 

And thanks for the heads-up.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think someone needs to do an ode to PIA.  I am not that talented in such things, but I am sure that we can some up with some descriptive four letter word rhymes.  :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

132506[/snapback]

 

Why the name calling?

 

Wave the flag Bro... Who could argue?

[VABills]

Why the name calling?

 

Wave the flag Bro... Who could argue?

133146[/snapback]

Well how about if I told you one of the guys I served in the Marine Corps had his sons funeral this week. The father believes his son died for a good cause and was pretty much telling anyone after the funeral the same thing. He is very proud of his son. BTW, the father served in Gulf I. I will not have some dirtbag undermine his efforts and those of his fellow Marines, by implying this guys are purposely gunning down injured people laying there.

[_BiB_]

Well how about if I told you one of the guys I served in the Marine Corps had his sons funeral this week.  The father believes his son died for a good cause and was pretty much telling anyone after the funeral the same thing.  He is very proud of his son.  BTW, the father served in Gulf I.  I will not have some dirtbag undermine his efforts and those of his fellow Marines, by implying this guys are purposely gunning down injured people laying there.

133203[/snapback]

 

Difference between those who recieved the sum of their education on campus, and those who did some learning wearing Kevlar (though I do go back to the steel pot days). You either get it, or you don't. With few exceptions, those who think like Petrino are simply clueless. If it weren't for the fact that they'd last about 30 seconds, I'd love to find a way to put them in those soldier's and marine's shoes for a few days. Then I might have some respect for their opinions on how it is all so wrong.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Well how about if I told you one of the guys I served in the Marine Corps had his sons funeral this week.  The father believes his son died for a good cause and was pretty much telling anyone after the funeral the same thing.  He is very proud of his son.  BTW, the father served in Gulf I.  I will not have some dirtbag undermine his efforts and those of his fellow Marines, by implying this guys are purposely gunning down injured people laying there.

133203[/snapback]

 

Doesn't matter. Everybody has tragedy in their life. It is always hard having to bury a child. No matter what, my heartstrings can't be tugged. I don't tell you half the things I have been exposed to growing up. Like I said, I must be one cold SOB? That's my problem.

 

What keeps them from gunning down injured people lying there?

 

So, if you think you see an autrocity, you should not report it?

 

You a union guy? You sure sound like one.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Difference between those who recieved the sum of their education on campus, and those who did some learning wearing Kevlar (though I do go back to the steel pot days). You either get it, or you don't. With few exceptions, those who think like Petrino are simply clueless. If it weren't for the fact that they'd last about 30 seconds, I'd love to find a way to put them in those soldier's and marine's shoes for a few days. Then I might have some respect for their opinions on how it is all so wrong.

133209[/snapback]

 

 

Keeping on underestimating people. Everybody needs a little sunshine blown up their own arses. Keep on telling yourself things...

 

I am just gonna leave it at that... No need to interpret my continued dialog as disrespect, which it never is. It is just the flat out truth.

[Alaska Darin]

Doesn't matter.  Everybody has tragedy in their life.  It is always hard having to bury a child.  No matter what, my heartstrings can't be tugged.  I don't tell you half the things I have been exposed to growing up.  Like I said, I must be one cold SOB?  That's my problem.

 

What keeps them from gunning down injured people lying there?

 

So, if you think you see an autrocity, you should not report it?

 

You a union guy?  You sure sound like one.

137849[/snapback]

Yeah, let's compare real life to a war zone against an opponent who plays by no distinguishable rules. Very accurate.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Yeah, let's compare real life to a war zone against an opponent who plays by no distinguishable rules.  Very accurate. 

138097[/snapback]

 

Define real life? Who's?

[VABills]

Doesn't matter.  Everybody has tragedy in their life.  It is always hard having to bury a child.  No matter what, my heartstrings can't be tugged.  I don't tell you half the things I have been exposed to growing up.  Like I said, I must be one cold SOB?  That's my problem.

 

What keeps them from gunning down injured people lying there?

 

So, if you think you see an autrocity, you should not report it?

 

You a union guy?  You sure sound like one.

137849[/snapback]

Oh so you undervalue my friend child now. Tell you what he would love to hear your views. You want to tell him his son died for no reason and that he is guilty of shooting unarmed terrorists? Wow, you are brave.

 

What makes you think I give two ***** about unions. As far as unions go, they had their place, now most of them need to go. Some I think still serve a purpose, most don't, other than to rip off both their members and the companies they rape.

[Joe Fergy]

Now we're shooting unarmed, injured enemy combatants? I can't WAIT to hear Bush's lawyers turn this one into a perfectly acceptable act according to their 'interpretation' of the articles of the Geneva Convention. I saw the video ... both versions. Sickening. Apparently even the right-wing, hawk whacko's who make up most of the regulars in PPP (and provide at least one 'moderator' as well) aren't too thrilled about it either. Or, at least, they seem silent on the matter. But I must comment. Yes, you all know I hate this war already. But THIS takes it to a new low. The silence from the hawks in here is deafening ... that's why I'm posting this. When I post ... on ANYTHING, at ANY TIME ... I know I can count on an Alaska Dimwit or a DiCkless Tom response in seconds. Bring it, boys ...

120236[/snapback]

Read this and please grow up and don't believe everything you see on TV.They only show the negatives about your county................Good Morning Everybody.

 

The following is an email from my son regarding the NBC report (with embedded reporter Kevin Sites), concerning the Marine who is being investigated for "murdering" the insurgent in Fallaja. I will be sending his mail to every news program's email I can find. I find it sickening that this Kevin Sites is even allowed to be embedded with our Marines, as this isn't the first report I've heard from him that took on a decidely unfriendly tone. My son also gave me permission to release it to anyone that wants to pass it on, as long as it remains unedited.

 

-- Darlene

PMM LCPL Gus

TS DET

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:27:55 -0800 (PST)

From: old tymer <email address edited>

Subject: The stories you don't hear...

 

This is one story of many that people normally don't hear, and one that everyone does.

 

This is just one most don't hear:

A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with Ak-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded, lying in a pool of his own blood. The Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the injured man, scanning to make sure no enemies come from behind. In a split second, the pressure in the room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard. Marines outside rush to the room, and look in horror as the dust gradually settles. The result is a room filled with the barely recognizable remains of the deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several pounds of explosives.

 

The Marines' remains are gathered by teary eyed comrades, brothers in arms, and shipped home in a box. The families can only mourn over a casket and a picture of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid behind a white flag. But no one hears these stories, except those who have lived to carry remains of a friend, and the families who loved the dead. No one hears this, so no one cares.

 

This is the story everyone hears:

 

A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insugent can be heard saying, "Mister,mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded.Suddenly, he pulls from under his bloody clothes a grenade, without the pin. The explosion rocks the room, killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young Marine catches shrapnel in the face.

 

The next day, same Marine, same type of situation, a different story. The young Marine and his cover man enter a room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on the floor in puddle of blood, another against the wall. A reporter and his camera survey the wreckage inside, and in the background can be heard the voice of a Marine, "He's moving, he's moving!" The pop of a rifle is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now dead.

 

Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national television, and the Marine is being held for commiting a war crime. Unlawful killing.

 

And now, another Marine has the possibility of being burned at the stake for protecting the life of his brethren. His family now wrings their hands in grief, tears streaming down their face. Brother, should I have been in your boots, i too would have done the same.

 

For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We are here for the man to our left, and the man to our right. We choose to give our lives so that the man or woman next to us can go home and see their husbands, wives, children, friends and families.

 

For those of you who sit on your couches in front of your television, and choose to condemn this man's actions, I have but one thing to say to you. Get out of you recliner, lace up my boots, pick up a rifle, leave your family behind and join me. See what I've seen, walk where I have walked. To those of you who support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive.

 

I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq. These are my opinions and mine alone. They do not represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US military, or any other.

 

Sincerely,

 

LCPL Schmidt

USMC

[_BiB_]

Thank you very much for that. I very much mean that too. I'm retired Army and fully understand, 'cause I've been there what things like this are about. And, being Army does not preclude me from adding-Semper Fi, guys.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yeah, I just love how the vast majority of liberals use the freedoms paid for in blood by these brave boys to denigrate their actions and call for their heads.

 

I HATE liberalism.