KOKBILLS

I don't know my friend...I think instead of saying it's not the OC, the proper way to say it is that it was all of the above...Then some...I do get that Hackett and Marrone were installing their system and it was the first year of that system so a drop-off could certainly be explained...But these two came riding into town on their "genius offensive-minds" horses, made a few really strange personnel moves (ie not giving David Nelson the minimum tender), and subsequently ended up with about the same Offensive output the Bills had in 2012...I could actually understand it a bit more if the new HC was a Defensive guy, but Marrone and Hackett came with such hyperbole that it was easy to imagine an improvement overall...And not only did we not get an improvement, we got a drop-off from two players we could least afford a drop-off from in production... As far as the O-Line goes sorry Bro...I done give Marrone an inch on that one...Ex O-Lineman, ex O-line Coach, ex OC...The (at times) poor play of the line is on him...If Marrone was all that they should have improved in that area, Levitre or not...I expected the Bills to be more like the Pats on the O-line with a bunch of grinders who were technically outstanding and played smart...Instead we got a mixed bag and an absolute ton of penalties... So anyway...Yes the Bills dropped off...NO it was not entirely on Marrone and Hackett...But it was partially on them for sure...And hopefully they learned some lessons...To me these guys came across as a bit over their heads in year one...If the same thing happens in year two I'm not sure I want to even think about giving them a year three...

The only reason I was OK with it was because...by that time...the Bills had no choice...They basically had 3 starting caliber RB's, and Freddie may have been the best of the 3...So the minute...actually the second...they Drafted CJ I knew it was over...Time to move Lynch and get what you can for him... Maybe it's simply because I was SO against the CJ pick that the whole Lynch thing pisses me off to this day...And I was not ever against CJ as a player, I just thought it was a really stupid team-building move...And the key to me in the whole thing...The absolute key...was Freddie...The Bills already had Jackson who had shown so well to that point, they could gamble a bit by keeping Marshawn and hoping he would work through the immaturity issues...But instead they brought in an old school GM and an old school HC who wanted Lynch gone, and were willing to throw the team-building aspect of it out the window in order to make him dispensable...At the time the Bills had needs all over the field and they Drafted a player at their deepest position in the 1st round...Not to mention that position was RB...A position I'm not crazy about using a 1st round pick at anyway...So there you go...Bye bye Marshawn... I think team building is almost an art form in the NFL...And Buddy proved to me right there, from day one, he was clueless in that art...

So...A converted CB who was projected by many Scouts to move to Free Safety in the NFL all of a sudden can't move to Free Safety because he played one year as a SS in a scheme that his DC admits the Safety positions are basically interchangeable? The only reason the Bills did not move Williams to FS is because they already had Byrd who is one of the best in the business...And once they moved him to SS, and Byrd got hurt, they did not want to further confuse the kid by moving him to his 3rd position in two years...Plus Williams was obviously converting well to his new role...Rest assured, if the Bills wanted to, Williams could move to Free Safety and be just fine there... I'd rather have both Byrd and Williams to be honest...But saying Williams cannot move to FS is not correct either...He can...Not sure if it really matters much in Pettine's scheme anyway...But Williams can play FS for just about any team in the NFL...It's a great fit for his skill set...

That speaks to the team Defense and you're not wrong... Still...The OP is correct...Thomas is the best in the business...I really don't think that speaks ill of Byrd though...Thomas is better than any FS...

You don't need hindsight in this case...You really don't...All anyone had to do was hang out with me for the 2010 Draft to know you could see this one coming a mile away... The minute the Bills Drafted Spiller they put themselves over that barrel you speak of...They had plenty of choices where Marshawn was concerned, but the new Coach and GM did not want him...And once they took CJ it was over...Lynch was a goofball and made some dumb mistakes...no doubt about it...But he was not without positives either...He was a heck of a good RB in Buffalo at times...His teammates liked him a lot...I don't think you can find a classier team leader than Fred Jackson...He and Marshawn are still close...Freddie has commented before that they still talk almost daily...How bad could he really be? He was a kid 3000 miles from home...He made some immature mistakes because...well...he was immature...Regardless it was just dumb team building on Nix's part...When you have not one, but two Pro-Bowl caliber backs in-house, you don't Draft another one in the top 10...It was dumb then regardless of what Lynch would go on to do...It's even dumber now because Marshawn is special...

Exactly...

Well I'm sure you wont have to worry about that... There is at least a chance that a VERY highly rated OT will be available at #9 though...That will be interesting...

Thank you... That's really all I'm trying to say...

Yawn... Really? Nobody expected better numbers? Nobody? Does that include Marrone and Hackett? Nobody? Come on... If you want to say that Hackett had a decent rookie year as an OC, all things considered, go right ahead...It's a free country...I'm not saying you don't have a point...But don't pretend there cannot be debate...19th in yards...22nd in points...28th passing...6-10...Despite being the the 2nd best run offense in the NFL in total yards the Bills were only 14th in yards per attempt...There's plenty of room for debate...Plenty... I'm not saying he did not do a decent job...In fact I said clearly he should be given credit for getting similar offensive numbers overall considering the drop-off from Stevie and Spiller...But I'm also not willing to ignore the fact that he did not get anything close to the production expected out of those two because they are clearly the Bills most talented offensive players...Mario improved under Pettine...Dareus improved under Pettine...CJ and Stevie accounted for more than 30 less yards combined per game under Hackett...It was a regression...Now, were there extenuating circumstances? Of course there were...Rookie QB's and all..I get it...But I'm far away from assuming Hackett is the next coming or anything of the sort...That's all...I'm not making assumptions any longer, or giving any benefits of the doubt, when it comes to this team...Winning will solve that...Anything less and it's all a bunch of rah rah garbage...

But the Offense was supposed to get better right? Not the same or worse...Call it cherry picking if you like, but similar production from Stevie and CJ in 2013 and the Offense is better than it was in 2012...I'm certain Hackett would have told anyone before the season that he would be disappointed if he got 1000 less yards combined by those 2...They are supposed to be the #1 RB and the #1 WR without question... In Hackett's defense it is almost a miracle they produced as well as they did on offense with the drop-off from those two...I'll give him that much...

Ebron (TE only because he's not a WR...He won't be used like a traditional TE...Then again if he comes to Buffalo with Marrone and Hackett who knows...) or Watkins (though I assume he'll be gone) at #9 would be fine with me...Right now I like Ebron over Evans and Benjamin, though I reserve the right to change my mind...

Well... The Bills were 2nd in the NFL in sacks...Manny Lawson is 29 actually, and in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract... Yes Hughes will be a UFA in 2015 but he's a situational guy, and he's certainly resign-able... Furthermore this team has bigger needs...There not in the position to be Drafting to fill a potential UFA loss...They need to build a complete roster first than worry about that stuff down-the-road...

Kevin Burkhardt and John Lynch...For a Playoff game? Fox has Gus Johnson in house and this is who they put on a Playoff game?... Anyway...

Don't know much about him yet...But I do know that is one of the worst first names I have ever seen...

Why? The Bills already have Hughes and Lawson on the outside, and they want to move Kiko to the weak side...Hughes is playing that hybrid 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE in Passing situations, basically rushing the QB most of the time...IMHO the Bills will be looking for a stuffer on the inside first and foremost, and not a hybrid on the outside...

The estimated Franchise Tag number in 2014 for Safeties is $8.1...So I'm guessing Parker will be looking in excess of $9 mil annually...

Honest to God unless there is a no-miss QB available I feel this is ALWAYS a good strategy...

Like I posted in another thread Marrone/Hackett managed 1040 LESS yards and 9 LESS TD's from our two best Offensive skill players combined...Now...I understand injuries/missed time from Spiller and Stevie was a factor...But I think that's a pretty staggering statistic...And not in a good way...

My early predictions are still about the same... In no order of preference whatsoever...One of these players will be with the Buffalo Bills by the end of Round #1 2014... Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Eric Ebron, Kelvin Benjamin... Just a reminder...I'm always right...

I know Luck is awful good...But Pagano is one hell of a coach...They turned over 2/3 of their roster in 2012, and outside of Luck and Hilton it's not like they have killed it in the Draft or Free Agency...I just think the guy is the most underrated coach in the NFL...I really, really like him... That's part of the reason why I look at the Rogers situation differently...I have a tremendous amount of respect for Pagano and his ability to get the most out of what he's got...Though I'm still hopeful, I cannot give Marrone the same benefit of the doubt...Marrone came in and got a combined 1040 LESS yards, and 9 LESS TD's from Spiller and Stevie...So which coach would anybody assume has the better methodology, and was more likely to get the best out of Rogers?

Could not possibly agree with this statement more...

Well...I certainly agree there are differing opinions on this subject... Rogers really only played one full season as a starting WR in College...He was undrafted and raw...The idea that he could go anywhere and earn a starting spot as a rookie is well beyond any possible expectation...So I'm not sure that can be considered at this time...It's an impossibility... I'll admit that many of us here are making projections concerning Rogers...No question about it...It's easy to say only 14 receptions is not enough evidence to prove anything...And no question at face value that's true...But it's also true that Rogers has only been on the field for 5 games...And in those 5 games he has 15 receptions for 238 yards and 2 TD's... So...Lets just hypothetically say Rogers plays 16 games with the same production he had in the first 5...His totals for 16 games would be somewhere around 48 receptions, 760 yards, and 6 TD's...Now granted...He's got Andrew Luck throwing him the ball and God knows the Bills don't have that kind of talent at QB...So...Let's take those numbers and cut them in half...That's 24 receptions, 380 yards, and 3 TD's...Those stats are actually ever so slightly better than TJ Graham had as our #3 WR this past year...So...Rogers projected over 16 games, and cut in half, could have been the Bills 3rd best WR in 2013...He has that kind of talent...He's already proved that much... So is it not safe to say there is reason for concern over this? The Bills are VERY likely to use yet another premium Draft pick at WR in 2014, and our HC admitted he was not concerned about long range potential whatsoever when deciding to cut Rogers...To me that's alarming...It certainly is not something that will make or break Marrone...But it's looking like keeping Rogers could have made it a heck of a lot easier on him, and the team going forward...If we have Rogers now maybe the Bills are looking O-Line or LB with that #9 overall instead of WR...These are team building decisions that can go well beyond the initial decision...And I'm not saying it's the same situation at all, but believe me when I tell you there were a hell of a lot of folks right here on this board that said Marshawn Lynch would never amount to anything once we dealt him to Seattle...I look at things a bit differently...You're trying to eliminate needs, not create them or break even...I just think Marrone made a mistake on this one...And furthermore I blame Whaley for not leaning on him a bit to assure Rogers got at least a year to show if he can develop...