Bill from NYC

Yes, I do know that. I also know from being a Bills Fan that professional teams are able to exploit a hole on an offensive line. I have watched this happen to the Bills for the better part of 2 decades. Levitre did his job and did it well. And yes, he was a better pass protector than run blocker, but he did his job on the run quite well imo. As much as I love the dialogue, I am having trouble seeing anything sensible about not re-signing Levitre. Along with Ruben Brown, he has given us the best play at OG that we have seen in almost 20 years. Now, we brought in a quarterback who is a rookie, another who was beaten half to death before arriving in Buffalo, and took away from them the most reliable blocker that we had on the roster. I want to, but I cannot see a logical equation here.

Great post. In addition, there is a lurking "consensus" on this that Wood is a better blocker than Levitre. He is not. When he is on the field and not out injured or playing hurt, Wood can be a bruiser, which fans naturally do like. Levitre relies more on finesse, which is starting to be more appropriate in a pass driven league. And in terms of his play on running downs, one needs to look at Spiller's YPA before complaining.

>>>>I disagree with BillfromNYC's earlier post about the Mankins comparison. But I agree with his later post about drafting Levitre in a high spot and then letting him walk. The disconnect in his drafted value and his free agent value comes down to a change in regime.<<<< Look again SJB.....it wasn't me who brought up Mankins, but I do get that poster's point. If Levitre had been drafted in round 1 rather than Wood, his play would have justified this to be on the better end of first round picks by the Bills in the last 20 years. He did all that was asked, and more. Moreover, who were the 2 best guards on the team since the superbowl era? Ruben Brown and who? This team sends out bad messages. The re-signed McKelvin, a #11 pick in round 1, who is a lousy corner. They franchised Byrd, who is symbolically sticking out his middle finger to the Bills, and wants far more than he is worth. If they sign Byrd long term, Mario Williams will have a better chance of living up to his contract than Byrd who is good, far from great. Levitre only got 10 million guaranteed. This was not a tough deal to match, especially if they used imaginative cap strategy. Now we are breaking in a rookie behind a big hole at LG. It never seems to end.

>>>>>Plus the Patriots don't really spend money on anyone who isn't Brady or one of a very select group of guys like Gronk and Willfork. They identified Mankins as one of those select core guys to give that kind of money to. Just because New England gave crazy money to their LG doesn't mean it would have been smart for the Bills to.<<<< Then why draft him at all? They traded up to the 2nd round to select him and since then he has outplayed everyone on the OL, including the beloved Wood. In fact, it isn't close. Was the purpose of taking him to merely help win a few games for a lousy team? The Bills, especially since Levy/Jauron, whiffed on pick after pick. This time they really did click and just let him walk.

eball, let's make no mistake. The Bills are not a well run team. Next, they have what, 18 million dollars in cap space? They could have guaranteed Levitre's first year and part of his second year and not taken any risk in terms of cap problems. This is what Tampa did with Revis. After his first season, Revis can be cut with no cap hit. JohnC >>>Is Levitre better than his replacement, whoever it may be? Probably so.<<< Probably so? He was our best pass blocker. A left guard with LT agility. They didn't draft his replacement. No, they ae going with a bargain basement journeyman. We have seen the Bills do this to their OL time and again. How often did it work? This is bound to hinder both Manuel and yes, Spiller. Let's hope the defense improved. Btw I had to answer in this format because my enter key still doesnt work while responding to posts. It's getting quite annoying and apparently others have this same problem.

To be honest, at times I think of Manuel a a running quarterback. I think he is a fine, instinctive runner. When a QB has this much ability in one area they tend to go for it as a reflex, or so it would seem. For instance, Bledsoe had a circus arm. He knew that if given time, he could drop a 60 yard pass straight down into the hands of a reveiver. This would cause him to at times wait too long to throw. And on those Bills teams there was little to no time due to some of the worst offensive lines ever assembled in the NFL. I am really looking forward to watching this kid. He does seem raw, but he also seems to be a smart player. I think that this can set him apart from Losman. JP had talent galore, but imo he never had a feel for the game. And Badol, not to beat a dead horse, but why would the Bills give up their most solid pass protector (Levitre) under these conditions? Does this indicate that they expect Manuel to run alot, or am I reading too much into it?

Hope is great but there is no logical reason that I can see to think that the Bills will be a playoff team this season. It can happen, but it is far from likely. My biggest complaint, as you already know, was losing Levitre. With the new CBA, salaries are going down at every position except QB. Those guys are getting rich, and the shrinkage of rookie contracts is going directly to the QBs and nobody else. That said, our QB signed for 4 years/8.9 million. This is literal pocket change today. Levitre was only guaranteed 10 million in a long term deal. They let him walk, and this can only hurt Manuel and yes, Spiller. Instead of considering the above circumstances they franchised Byrd, and things don't look so good. The truth is that they should have kept both of them. They could have signed Levitre AND tagged Byrd. The cap space was there. In a semi-related matter, I watch a lot of clips on Manuel. From where I sit he is chock full of talent. Please explain to me what prevented him from being a top 5 pick in a poor draft for QBs. What was it that scared other GMs away from him? Why did even Jax pass on him?

No, his name belongs in a different discussion.

Great to see you posting!!! My friend, do you truly think that YPA was the only factor in Elway being a better qb than Holcomb? I know that you do not. Teams had to account for Elway's ability to run. They also had to account for his ability to throw tape measure long passes, as well as perhaps the best fastball ever. In short, there was no true way to defend against him. That said, it IS interesting that he didn't win a superbowl until he relied more on his running game. However, that was then. This is another era. As you know, I was dragged kicking and screaming (and much of it by you and BADOL) into facing the reality that the game has dramatically changed. A young John Elway in this era would make Luck and RG111 look like bad qbs. Can you even begin to imagine a protected (by the rule changes) John Elway? And imagine his salary if he was a UFA!!!! If Flacco is worth 21 mil and Rogers is worth 25, Elway would be worth 40 mil, because he had more talent than both of them combined. Again, great to see you post!

It's true. He purchased 2 very expensive cars for the Houston PD. Let that sit for a second if you will.....there are segments of the American culture who might see this as an act of being a traitor for political, and other reasons. Mario doesn't care what they think, and put his own money down for the safety and well being of his community. Imo, he is a literal hero for doing so. This thread (and probably the article which I didn't read) are indicative of society. He is remembered for a wacky court battle with an ex. He is remembered for ONLY registering 10 1/2 sacks on a lousy defense, this while playing injured. He SHOULD be lauded for looking out for his community. PS: He is the best player on the Buffalo Bills.

Yes, Mario IS forming a pattern. He continues to make HUGE donations to the Houston PD so they can purchase equipment to protect their community.

I don't want to get caught up in semantics, but I cannot agree with the bolded. The difference is that plays that are now considered "dirty" used to be a legit part of the game. The big change is the passing game. In the days of Lott, Tatum, Atkinson, etc., going over the middle was a life threatening experience, especially if the pass was high. They would crush receivers with timed hits. This is out, and when it does happen the fines are huge. Also, qbs are protected like never before. Some of the old timers would have had longer, better careers under today's conditions. Teams were always built around QBs, but not as much as today,

Yes indeed. The Bills, no matter who is GM, tend to focus primarily on dbs and rbs in the draft (until 2013). Maybe this will change. TE and OG are 2 positions which have always fascinated me on draft day. Generally speaking, you don't need a top 10 pick to draft a great one. You can get one late in the first round, etc. There are too many examples to list, but Steve Hutchinson, one of the best ever, was selected at #17.

I think that the Bills would appear to have better receivers, but I am once again concerned wrt the TE position. TEs can be very helpful to young QBs. I hope Chandler is healthy. The rest is really up to the development of Manuel and our young players. Imo, we are a year away from serious contention (again, depending on Manuel and good drafting). But for the Bills, this is an improvement.

We sure do deserve it. Much of what will happen rests on the shoulders of Manuel and the coaches. If Manuel is good, and players such as Glenn, Dareus and Gilmore develop, we might actually have a chance for second place in the division. And things do look ugly up in NE, ya know?

If the purpose of this board was to form a consensus, I would stop posting here in a minute. There are posters who have and represent different takes on this football team. BADOL happens to be more analytical than most, but he backs up his statements with facts. If you don't want in depth analysis of what has and is happening with the Bills, I suggest that you ignore his comments. Imo this would be your loss, but that's just me. He is going against the grain, this is true. So what? I can tell you from personal experience that doing so is not often easy. I could come on this board and tell you that stupid draft picks such as Spiller and Gilmore were good, smart picks. The homers woud love it, but it isn't true IMO. Hey.....there is one poster who continues to defend Levy/Jauron, which was the flashpoint of this team going from bad to swirling the toilet. And I am fine with this; it's his opinion. A prominent poster here derides fans for ANY negative comment about the Bills. This too is his right imo, but the Bills are serial losers for several reasons, and I think that discussing said reasons in a civil way is a good thing. In any event, we all hope that the Bills will win football games. We cope in different ways, but opinions and good discussion is why we are here imo.

I like Glenn because he has a chance to be a great one. He played WAY better than I expected him to before he hit the rookie (or was it injury?) wall. As much as I like the huge players, they scare me just a bit in terms of injuries to their feet and ankles. When Kris Jenkins got hurt, I thought that he was one of the best players in the league. Remember Gilbert Brown? He was simply impossible to move before getting hurt. Glenn is a monster. His level of play will directly effect that of Manuel, and really the entire team. I wish that he was going to be lining up next to Levitre, but it is what is is.

I can't really agree with this. Look at 2006....he had 14 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, and recovered one of them. And you want to talk about being hindered? Jauron had him dropping back in coverage, as well as lining up so far outside he was barely in bounds. For years, he alone was virtually the entire Buffalo Bills pass rush and was doubled on almost every play. Imagine Schobel in his prime playing opposite a defensive end such as Bruce or Mario! When Schobel came into the league he was raw, purely a speed rusher (people forget his blinding speed for a DE). I saw him get beat up by the underrated Brad Hopkins, and was concerned. He was light (probably 255 or so) and it was brutal. But he worked hard and developed a very good spin move. He once registered 2.5 sacks in a game against Jonathan Ogden, which was virtually unheard of. Let's face it, he will never get his due because he followed Bruce Smith, who was one of the best ever. But if Schobel in his prime was on this current team, it would be very hard for teams to throw against them. Very hard.

He has talent, and is very strong for a corner. As for the stats above, all I can tell you is that I watch every game. The kid gave up many key first downs and was often penalized at critical times. I am not trying to say that he will not improve. He was a rookie. I hope that he can win us some games.

I gladly admit when I am wrong. Being wrong on this board is not a great fear of mine. I thought Rob Johnson was going to be a great quarterback. And I thought that Trent Edwards was going to be good. We ae not GMs here and will make mistakes. I think this is part of the fun of posting here. I qualified my post with the words "on this board." Above, posters that I respect are praising him (or so it seems) for how they think he will play. I have no issue with this. But last season he gave up key passes and a slew of costly penalties. I didn't have a Whitner type meltdown when the selected Gilmore, I wasn't at all happy mind you, but I saw a little of Gilmore in college, and they had spent the big bucks on pass ushers. That said, draft picks really should be judged (imo) on how many games they win for you. If a team loses games, it doesn't really matter if a player is good, or even very good. One last thing wrt 1st round picks.....As fans, we give them more room, unless they are as bad as Maybin and there is no hope to cling to. Fans are reluctant to admit that a first round pick didn't work out. Who wants to admit to futility? Hey, I am wishing for Dareus to not be a bust as we speak. But again, I am not going to give Gilmore a high rating until he deserves one.

On this board, it would be Gilmore by far. This Imo, could change but he was not a good player last season. We can pretend that he was, but is just ain't so. If he stays the same, he will be yet another squandered top 10 pick on a defensive back. And due to the rule changes, it is unlikely that he will ever be good enough to justify throwing away such an early draft selection.

I tend to strongly agree. The only thing that prevents me from being in 100% agreement with the above was the idiotic trade that Tampa made with the Jets. Make no mistake, I am not likening Byrd to Revis in terms of overall talent at his position, but Revis IS coming off of a very serious injury, and the Bucs coughed up a 1st and a 3rd (in 2014) for him. It only takes one willing trade partner to complete a deal as stupid as the above. The new CBA has made a dramatic change upon the game, as have the rule changes. Defensive backs no longer own the middle, thus giving QBs a HUGE advantage. It also has decreased the value of running backs. Passing is the way to go, and this is why good (not great) QBs such as Romo and Flacco were rewarded with mega-millions. Wait until QBs such as Luck, Wilson, RG III, and Newton are UFAs. Can you even imagine their contracts? Players such as Schaub and Rivers will demand and receive millions upon millions. I for one would not want my cap space tied up with a good safety, but that's me. That said, Manuel just signed for chump change, so the Bills do have room to keep Byrd. The way to go in terms of building a team is QB, pass rushers, and blockers. Truthfully this was always the case but now it is that much more pronounced. And the cap appears to be flat when looking on the horizon. The big bucks have been taken from early draft picks, and handed to QBs. Sorry to ramble, but usually I am ready to commit wrt most Bills topics. This one is a tough call.

To be honest, I go back and forth on what I think the Bills should do wrt Byrd. I suppose this is partially because I am still seething about losing Levitre. The Bills have only had 2 high quality guards on the roster since the mid 1990s. Levitre was one of them, and they let HIM walk, only to place the tag on a defensive back. This, with a rookie quarterback, another who is probably as beat up as Trent Edwards, and a running back as a featured weapon. I cannot sort this out in a rational way. And I do see your point that the Bills owe it to the fans to sign him. But I just don't embrace the premise of the Bills devoting SO much money to a safety who is good, but not dominant. First it was prime draft choices, in this case it will be HUGE dollars. If it were up to me, I would offer him his first 2 years guaranteed. This way if his quality of play wanes, or he gets hurt, he could be cut without a cap hit. Would Parker go with this? I don't know.

I fully agree. To take it a step further, the Bills have leverage imo. Btw, what do you think he would be worth in a Peerless Price type trade? Do you think he could be traded for a 1st round pick? I for one do not. He is young (and the young free agents did the best in this offseason) but he isn't a dominant player imo. And, the team who trades away a pick for him gives up the option of a cheap draft pick (because of the new CBA). Byrd will cost money. I think that if the Bills can get more than a 3rd for him they would be doing well, considering the amount of money a team would have to pay to sign him. What is your take?

The entire MaGahee experience was typical of the Bills. As you certainly recall, TD actually was able to acquire a first round pick (was it #27?) for Peerless Price. Eric Steinbach was sitting there, and the Bills desperately needed a guard. Their slot was completely appropriate to draft him. Instead, they selected MaGahee and he sat as I recall 18 or 20 games before he took the field. Interestingly, when Levy traded MaGahee, he actually fetched a more than fair price for him. That as we know didn't work either.