Fan in Chicago

The Vikings are the #7 D so some of our O struggles were not surprising. In no way does it excuse some of the miscues, but 4 of our games so far have been against top-10 Defenses (Lions, Vikes, Dolphins, Pats*) and have won three out of them. There is enough to point fingers at but not every team in the NFL wins pretty.

The spirit of JR's post has some merit though. I am sick of Brady always going deep on a 3rd and long because he knows most of the times he is going to get a PI or defensive holding penalty. While a 10 yarder will still get them the first down, a spot foul turns what could be a good D stand into a big advance for the O. Changes the perspective, negates the good the D did on the first two downs and could change momentum.

Tough question but if his TE/WR skills are deemed useful, I can think of Larry Dean or Lee Smith. Mayyybe ....

Words fail me. Umm.. get 'er dun ?

I think we are all talking ourselves into painting a terrible picture of Marrone. For sure there are items which point to him being a control freak but I am not sure that trait directly translates into being a bad/loser coach. I think about this thread as an argument with the wife - when it is heated, we pick up minor items of complaint and declare the other to be a a** or worse. In reality, we aren't that at all but rather given to a few errors. In the same way, Marrone may have stumbled a few times, but the more we discuss it and the more we dig deep, the worse he looks. I guarantee that a couple of back to back wins will dampen this thread.

A program he eventually turned around, no ?

And that variability is a constant

Like the Pats* did this past Sunday with Chandler ?

You may be done with him but the players, on the other hand, are paid to do a job. First the WRs were dogging it and showing bad body language with EJ at QB. Now, they are going to pout against the coaches (not saying this is true as it is pure speculation). But whatever the case, the players are in no business to choose a QB or coaches. I really don't care how they feel inside. They are paid to be the best they can be on every snap. Thats what they have to do. No ifs, ands or buts.

"The team that beat the Bills in the first of their four straight Super Bowl losses may be willing to make a deal."

I am one of those that believe that several penalties yesterday were momentum breakers and possibly, game changers. As for the subjective part, much of the post-game analysis is subjective. While much can be gathered from stats as they accumulate over the season, we all know that measurables alone are inadequate in telling the entire story for any single game.

Loads of sarcasm in that statement. Perhaps Whaley shares your opinion.

I would respond yes if I had other concrete examples for that thought. Can you help me here ?

Was my first thought as well. In general, I would like a player in return who can help the team now. Such as a Guard or coverage LB.

I totally agree with this. Given the situation (Pettine leaving for a HC job), Schwartz was the best available choice with a proven resume. With sophomore HC and OC, the team could ill afford another inexperienced coordinator. On balance, I am not entirely displeased with what I have seen so far (I still have to sort out yesterday's disaster). However, I will add that the script repeats year after year - the O just cannot pull its own weight and puts the D on the ... ahem... defensive. If the O kept the game close or take the lead early in the game, it allows the D to be a tad more agressive and creative. Given that the O is inconsistent and so often do a poor job, the D has to play conservatively.

- I normally just mildly complain about officiating but yesterday I was ready to throw by coffee mug into the screen. Not only were the calls bad, but their timing was impeccable if you are the Pats* . Every time the Bills seem to gather momentum, out came a flag. I am not saying the outcome of the game would have changed for sure but momentum means a lot in football. Also, strategy on both sides of the ball changes depending on the score and flow of the game. Who knows how things would have turned out if the Bills had scored in the 2nd or 3rd quarter. Brady doesn't need help in dissecting the Bills secondary. All I ask is to let the Bills have a level playing field. - The above calls and turnovers are what killed us IMHO. We can point to the D, justifiably for their second half performance. However, the turnovers just made the outcome inevitable.

I disagree but okay

Second intentional grounding by my count, not called

Not IG?

We hardly knew ye

A couple of reasons IMHO. First - EJ was skittish and did not process things fast+did not set his feet enough to take advantage of the WR talent. SD and Houston did not respect the passing game for very good reason. Secondly, the OL is new, fresh and mostly terrible in run blocking. The inside runs were tough to come by. I am not sure if this is the case where the OL has to 'gel' or if the talent at Guard negates the goodness at Center and Tackle or if the coaching itself is not good. Orton's information processing and better passing may help the OL by making opposing D's respect the passing game. At this point, I am not sure where we will land but once Orton has played a few games and the opposing D's have had a chance to counter-attack him, we will have a much better idea how the rest of the season will go on offense. This Sunday is interesting not only for the (temporary) AFCE crown but to see how the O and D play against Belichick who always has his way with the Bills.

Thanx. I used to visit PPP a few years back and realized that there are several very aggressive posters on there. I read up on several topics. I know enough to be knowledgeable but not enough to debate. After several weeks of lurking, I was unsure if I would ever be able to engage in a conversation which wouldn't involve disparaging dialog from either side of the proverbial political fence. Stopped coming there and now, I very occasionally peek in but generally stay away due to this reason.

PPP? No thanx. Chef's alright. As long as I dont rib him on food and drink.

I hope you are prepared for the brickbats coming your way from posters on this board.