leh-nerd skin-erd

I will accept those results. I’m a centrist and at that point believe we should come together as a country.

For my money, that poster is the most broken guy on the board. Runs around spouting off about dictators and the end of democracy as DJT takes the legal route to addressing his concerns. He’s a nervous soul. On the other hand, let’s not forget that Fidel Castro overthrew Cuba by deftly outmaneuvering Fulgencio Batista in the Superior Court of the State of Pennsylvania, widely recognized and studied today as the Bay of Pitts(burg). Maybe he’s on to something.

Blind trust is the hallmark of simpletons and the easily duped. I’m a trust but verify guy.

I’m under no illusion I’m changing hearts and minds here. I believe I’ve been civil in my replies, I try to explain my thought process and have been attacked by several posters for my political views. That’s par for the course, and I certainly can handle it. That said I really don’t like passing up an opportunity to acknowledge when we have a meeting of the minds.

Prior to Gore Bush there was no hanging chad. I’m going to assume you would accept the results in this admittedly fanciful discussion. I’m assuming that’s the case because you previously acknowledged your willingness to accept the outcome if Trump prevails. That is honorable and you should be commended.

You sir, are wrong, and the attempt to vilify me is uncalled for. I’ve said multiple times what I think will happen, who will prevail and who will lose, and that pursuing legal remedy is the American way just like it was in Gore Bush. The tent pole of your response in opposition is that you’re worried. I’m no less worried, and that’s why legal remedy is such an important aspect of our republic. I am not at all about DJT winning at all costs, I never have been. While I’m concerned about a Biden ticket, green new deals, a move away from energy independence, defunding the police and elevating criminals to martyr status, I have long recognized that my fellow citizens may have no such concern. I’ve been prepared for this for 4 years, and am prepared to weather the coming storm. I have no interest in unity under the terms dictated, but that’s my right as an American. It’s not unlike the fact that my fellow citizens may well vote for a candidate intent on substantially increasing my tax burden while reducing theirs. I’m a patriot, I gladly pay my taxes but for those who pitch some perverted of the ever increasing fair share, that isn’t unity, that’s a shakedown. One of the challenges in Washington is the level of influence peddling and nepotism present. Again, in normal times, I think pretty much everyone knows this. Suddenly however, we’ve got the cleanest government in fathers history of fa-Evah. My thought is that if you went down the list of senators involved in the hearing, a minimum of 80% have undertaken similar projects for friends and family and run the risk of mutually assured destruction should one or the other is targeted. See, I’m a realist. I don’t think Biden did anything that we haven’t done throughout the history of the country. I’d think McConnell, Graham, Romney, Feinstein and the rest run similar deals. I think Presidents do this sort of thing all the time, we shape nations in the image we want and $$$$ is the key. I think the difference was Trump. He’s not been in Washington for 15, 20, 40 years and has no skin in that game. So, a second political witch-hunt that goes nowhere is launched, believers in fairy tales and the innate goodness of politicians like yourself look at something like this and say “Well, what Trump did was wrong because nothing happened to Biden”. I only judged what I saw inconjuction with the impeachment that was undertaken that went nowhere. Meanwhile, more independent leaning folks hear about phony charges and impeachment, serial rapists and Russian treason. I’ll ask differently. With what you saw Biden doing, in conjunction with his sons interests in the country, troubling on any level to you? In conjunction with that question, given the Senate’s decision to disregard the impeachment vote as a political ploy, was the impeachment debacle good for unit and harmony? Btw, was Obama’s decision to incinerate the personal wealth of GM Bondholders an act of Presidential decorum or the act of someone with dictatorial aspirations? I’m well aware you may not be an Obama supporter, but wondering your thoughts.

And you may be right, but you’re claiming something is decided that isn’t decided, and suggesting people want to overturn a legitimate and uncontested election when we both know that not to be true. I’m just taking the let’s pretend game out. If Trump prevails and picks up EC votes in large enough numbers to win re-election, you will accept it, yes? If the matter ends up at the SC and Trump prevails, you will accept it, yes? We can assume you will if it’s a 9-0 victory, as would I, but let’s assume it’s a party line vote. I will accept that the will of the people should it play out in either of the above scenarios.

Well if it’s just about your feelings, acknowledged, but we’re wasting time here. If the will of the people is made clear to everyone, Biden will be president. Then, unfortunately, the opposition party sets about destroying him and his family. It’s the game and we have to give him credit, he has played it well. I’m not suggesting that the people in government “screw up”, I’m pointing to evidence of corruption, of people in power doing the things powerful people do, and one of the most glaring reasons I personally reject your Easter Bunny vision of our process. I can’t believe I forgot a couple other biggies. Obama rat-&$#@ing bond holders of GM, creating a presidential class of winners and losers and destroying the lives of folks who propped up the company while enriching others. The Congress impeaching a President for attempting to shakedown the Ukrainian government in hearsay evidence and what someone says they think they heard from a friend of a friend. The Congress validating a VP shaking down a foreign ally and bragging about it to the assembled masses, on tape. Many of us on the other side of this debate feel exactly the same as you do about dynasties and power hungry f$#@sticks and people who want to tell the world who might be black and who is not. Your feelings are no more valid than ours. Again, the day before the election, modern dem leadership was shrieking about not conceding the election if it went south. I’m happy to acknowledge the election was crystal clean and no meanies were involved if that proves to be the case. Until then, let’s see what happens. There’s no one screaming because a legit election took place. No one. If Trump prevails at the SC, will you concede the battle was worth it?

I enjoy reading your thoughts, you’re rational and dialed in for a geezer. I suggest we allow the candidate to pursue legal options where they see evidence of fraud or problems with votes counted. I’m not advocating for upsetting any apple cart, I’m actually advocating for ensuring the apple cart is roadworthy, tuned up and that apples were dropped or thrown off the cart along certain stretches of road, we pick em up and/or take them back from the people who grabbed em. I remain uncertain as to what exactly upsets you about the process DJT is following. Are you suggesting what he’s doing is illegal? Unconstitutional? Should this issue make it to the Supreme Court—are you concerned the justices will overturn a lawfully decided election? In you prior post, you used the term logic to describe the/a process a state might follow with mail in votes. I’ve worked with and around the state of NY for 36 years, and logical is a term I’d rarely use with regard to the mechanisms in our particular state. Off the top of my head: A friend in the waste management business contracted with the state to do a large hazmat cleanup near the Mohawk River on an emergency basis. The agreed upon fee was $450k +/-. When the work was completed, the logical folks at the state dodged and delayed payment by approximately 13 months, forcing this small family owned company to the brink of financial ruin. An employee had withholding issues for childcare. I was required to withhold and submit monies he claimed were not due because the state was always about 90 days behind the curve on processing his contribution (I believed him, but that irrelevant). I withheld as ordered under threat of substantial penalty, received a letter 90 days later threatening me further with civil penalty. When I inquired and provided proof of payment, I was told payment was credited to his personal account because I had not used a business check with a name like “McDonalds or Burger King”. During the early days of the pandemic, the Governor orders that landlords across the state discontinue attempts to collect rent and or evictions. He says “as for the landlords, trust us, we’ll take care of you down the road”. Still waiting, though property and school tax are due to the king, I’m sorry, government under threat of civil penalty and worse. The former governor of the State of NY was run out of office when it was discovered he was engaging in solicitation of prostitution, and perhaps wire fraud and interstate trafficking. No criminal action was filed. Two extraordinarily powerful state senators-Joe Bruno and Sheldon Silver, both ousted from office in shame over corruption and influence peddling. Andrew Cuomo’s right hand man was arrested on similar charges. A former head of the states crown jewel, SUNY Poly, used his influence and position of authority in a bid-rigging scheme. The former AG of the state, a kick ass law and order type, well he gets booted because it turns out he had a major cocaine problem and liked to bash his women around as foreplay. On a local radio show, the capital beat reporter from the local paper says that the cocaine issue was well-known for quite a while. That leaves me wondering why the local newspaper, an institution for truth and justice chose not to run a story about the law and order guy purchasing and consuming illegal drugs. A friend of mine owns a business in a nearby city, buys a building with the intent to restore it and improve the neighborhood. Local building inspector comes by, tells him he doesn’t like the brand new, in the plans submitted to the city sheetrock job in the main office and says it needs to be removed and replaced. Cost will be around $5k. Inspector continues, though by the way, I know your business is _______ , and I have an issue that maybe you can help with. What if I came by Saturday and you helped me out and we leave the office as it is?”. It is a well-known and established fact that NYS is awash in corruption and graft. It’s not a D or R thing exclusively, but it surely is a D thing. I have a friend who is the former head of a very large state agency , is politically connected and has spoken at length with me about these issues. Logic has nothing to do with it. People are people, corruption is a thing, and I believe 100% that you absolutely, positively with certainty cannot trust that people did the right thing. .

Perhaps it’s semantics, but unless I’m misreading you, you’re advocating for ‘trust the state’ . If a candidate doesn’t trust the state, and your suggestion is to forgo aggressive action in search of the truth, it boils down to acquiesce and submit in my opinion. You are absolutely correct—those were my words describing what I see as your position, not yours. I stand by the characterization, but apologies if you felt I was quoting you verbatim.

Two schools of thought with two people with relevant experience in analyzing data. One suggests “see it through”, the other “acquiesce and submit”. Interesting.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing. I think the challenge can be that while there are certainly well-intentioned and intelligent posters here, some could not find their belly button using a mirror. Most have taken the position that pursuing legal remedy is an affront to American tradition, even when you acknowledge they might be correctly predicting the outcome down the road? Where do you go with that?

Your mancrush Obama created an international incident by boldly expelling nearly 3 dozen Russian diplomats 22 days before he left office, during the Presidential transition last election cycle. Michael Flynn was targeted by the Obama admin’s DOJ for acts Joe Biden is undertaking as we speak—negotiating and conspiring with foreign leaders to get back to the good old days. The Obama DOJ was manipulating data and passing false intel to an incoming president in an attempt to disrupt his administration. DJT is pursuing litigation in search of a remedy. Biden has been a Washington fixture for 50 years, he’s a former VP and knows full well which interns are vulnerable for hair sniffing and groping. People in positions of power have a knack for figuring that stuff out. He’ll be working with Margaret Thatcher in no time—they’re good friends, he says. He’ll be fine when the time comes. We simply have to wait for the results of the investigations, or until DJT is convinced the election was handled fairly, or fairly enough to satisfy him. You and many others have suggested the evidence will be clear and convincing, or rather there will be a lack of evidence to the contrary, so I’m not sure what you think I’m conflating. Though, it would be interesting to see what might shake out if DJT expelled Chinese diplomats on 12/29. That would be an interesting gambit. Let’s put a pin in that one. In the meantime, patience boyo. You’ll be fine either way, and we’ll see what shakes out.

Well now I know what you think. You’re behind the obligatory “FOX NEWS!” citation by a solid year or more. Anyone worth their salt recognized the change in reporting, change in tone and tenor as senior leadership gave way to the youth movement. I didn’t track it, but I’d bet 90% or more of the sites linked by our friends no longer here came from sources that have nothing to do with Fox. There are a multitude of sources, web sites and opinion pieces for a conservative or non-liberal voter to consider. Fox personalities...Carlson, Hannity etc are political infotainment. TheIr process all that different than the nightly news, 60 minutes or anything else. On the other side Rachel Maddox, Brian Stelter, Chris Cuomo do the same thing. Yes, guidelines exist with the goal to keep news organizations honest, but to protect them as well. However, the insinuation that false story = litigation = win= this keeps MSM honest is incredibly naive. Civil litigation is expensive, messy, time-consuming, technical and again, expensive. There is also the issue of establishing damages and the relative likelihood of recovery. Like any other behemoth, a “news” organization like the WaPo is well-verses, well-funded and most definitely intent in a scorched earth defense of its operation. Regardless, what’s so hard about calling out the media for *&$#ing up a story? As for retractions, page one news on a Monday becomes a page 9 retraction on Friday. There is a reason a large percentage of the public distrusts media outlets.

My comment on restrictions lifting had to do with airplane travel and quarantine requirements when traveling this winter. I was also referring to the fact that as downstate NYer, Cuomo took care of his people by abandoning any pretense of COVID safety as it related to commuters and visitors from Ct, NJ and Pa. He said it was more or less unreasonable to track potential COVID carriers in and around the metro NY area. No word as to whether or not he waxed philosophically about a time, some time in the future, where people might carry hand-held, portable devices that would make them exceptionally easy to track and contact. Maybe someday. However, he did flex his authoritarian muscles by ordering gyms, bars and restaurants to be closed by 10pm under threat of permanent closure. New studies have revealed what's called a 'vampire' effect where the virus suddenly gets stronger at 10:01 pm. Previously, it was thought by Governor Cuomo that the vampire effect was lessened or neutralized by the humble potato chip. It's widely known, of course, that gym's are extraordinarily busy most nights from 10pm-4:30am. Finally, he has directed that private residences in NYS limit the number of people to 10 as well. In our large family, I'm getting to Mom's early so that if anyone get pinched it's one of the younger nieces and nephews. Worst that happens at age 13 or 14 is they go to juvey. Nod to the Zeeb is this is what you were talking about. This is certainly a tightening of restrictions on the compliant folk among us.

Oh Lord, this now. I guess it's on me for trying, so let's see it through. Elaborate on what a BillStime thinks a leh-nerd skin-erd might think is a 'win' on a message board. Tell me what you see.

Some of you guys are odd. Do you obsess over neighbors that moved away? The man is doing fine and living his best life in a new neighborhood. You guys have the echo chamber you want and can criticize the echo chamber the rest of us enjoy. Everybody wins.

We're probably not all that far off on views on the pandemic. The federal response under DJT can and should rightly be reviewed and criticized appropriately. Stepping aside from that for a second, I think Andrew Cuomo is an abhorrent public servant, a horrible governor and an entitled c*ckmuncher. I see him as chief architect of the "Let's Get taxpayers to Flee NYS!" party. However, I gave him a pass and a considerable amount of acknowledgement for being thrust into the spotlight in the era of COVID. It was an un-winnable position to be put in and it's hard to fault him for being caught woefully unprepared and absent a clue on what to do. This is separate and apart from his handling of late, and the deaths and blood on his hands at our elder care facilities. Anyway, I feel it is proper and just to acknowledge DJTs role in bringing together the government, private industry and the scientific community in effort to make PPE, ventilators, money and regulation to fast track a solution to a very complex problem. I saw the teams at his press conference, saw the passion in their eyes, saw the teamwork to help build the dreamwork, and I think that does not happen under most presidential administrations. History indicates that death and destruction are generally good for the people in power, and we've see a substantial amount of power-grabbing and fear mongering in the past year. As for God--to each his own.

Thank you for the acknowledgment, and I want to validate you, your feelings and your observation. I strike a different path, I would classify this as a political cause much more so than a charitable donation. I budget my money and make charitable donations to organizations that touch my heart and do what I consider to be The Lord's work. I'm fortunate enough to be able to navigate what I see as the chasm between the two.

Interesting, another tolerant liberal weighs in with a silly take. I shall donate $38 in your screen name, but as that is not enough, I’ll throw in $38 for So Tier and another $38 for good measure.

Money well-spent, though now you're going to make me duckduckgo his website. The link would have helped an old fellow out. Btw--you already told me about the .60%. We'll consider that a Biden moment.

I'm doing nothing of the sort silly wabbit. Check with your boy @transplantbillsfan as to my thoughts about who(m) might prevail in the election pre-election, and I'm happy to share my thoughts on where I think this goes. 1. Substantial evidence of wrongdoing; 2. Procedural violations on accepted ballots (for instance, accepting ballots after the date legislatively established); 3. Individual acts of wrongdoing that go unaddressed; Ultimately, the judicial branch rejects the arguments of the Trump admin and Joe Biden becomes the president. My calculus at the SC level is the evidence is weighted, and the choice comes down between additional litigation and riots that surely follow if/when DJT prevails v a bunch of angry conservative voters who grumble and complain but have bills to pay. In addition--SC justices have lives and families. I have little doubt that ACB loves and cherishes her husband and children, and little doubt after watching the Kavanaugh hearing there are enough crackpots in the world to want to do her harm. Tell you what though--if it's a slam dunk and Trump was wrong across the board, I'll be happy to acknowledge it. You're boring me. In NYS alone, the epicenter of the disaster where the elderly were set up to die, the restrictions are already lifting. Our illustrious governor changed the rules to allow for the snowbirds (typically wealthy NYS residents) and tapped out on even bothering to check commuters from adjoining, high risk states.

You're conflating topics, getting turned around and it's hard to follow your logic. Are you suggesting DJT should not pursue legal remedy because he was impeached? Putting aside the obvious problems with a partisan impeachment that went nowher, what's the point here? As for DJT sending our fundraising email, please provide a link. It's not that I don't believe you, I just would like to make another donation. As an aside, part of the liberal challenge is worrying too much about how other people spend their money. Or, perhaps more accurately, how much of the money earned they should be able to keep. I'm good with money, it's a tool like any other and when respected, can do wonders. I reject your assertion that the challenge is not good for America (nice hedge on 'presumed' btw), and charge you with providing evidence to support your claim. As for the pandemic, whatever. That ship has sailed, it paid dividends for your people at the voting booth, but as if on cue--holy crap, a vaccine! Thank God for Donald J Trump.

There is a reason justice is blind, at least philosophically. Tens of millions of citizens reject your assertion. Our response? No, we don’t burn down cities. No, we don’t establish CHOP/Free-to-murder zones. No, we don’t gather in massive groups and harass and intimidate law abiding citizens as they sit at a local establishment that provides goods, services, employment and tax revenue to our local communities. We support the adjudication of the matter through legal means. Not 2 minutes ago I responded to @SoTier and his silly yet hateful, derogatory comments. My crime? Civility. Reason. Patience. And a desire to see it through. Oh, and I voted for Donald Trump and historic low unemployment, a sensible approach to taxation, energy independence and the like. I’ve indicated multiple times that if you and yours prevail, the answer will be revealed.

I always feel badly for people like you. I’m not sure if it was the failing of the people who cared for you, your role models or that you got off track somewhere along the way. If my thoughts offend you to the point that you come up with forced analogies involving horse droppings, gift boxes and wrapping paper, you should stay off the sauce and stay in the echo chamber. Bitterness keeps you from flying, lad. When you’re ready to have dialogue stop back by.