JohnNord

When was the last game you marched and said “Wow, Ken Dorsey was impressive?” I can think of the Miami game this season but that’s it. It was downhill from there. Before that we have to go back to 2022 season…Maybe the Rams and Titans in week 1 or wee 2???? Brady has 2.5 games like that already - 2nd half not withstanding

LOL uh yeah…if McDermott was in his ear, he’d want more runs to kill time. There’s no way the sequence before the go-ahead FG happens if McDermott was “in his ear.” This fan base…

There’s going to be a few other big games this season, starting Sunday….maybe playoffs too. It will give the team a lot of time to evaluate him as OC. One thing is pretty clear - Brady appears to be a better and more creative play caller than Dorsey. Many have said play calling is more based on “feel” than an exact science. This is where Dorsey failed IMO. The offense seemed so disjoined and never “passed the eye test.” It was Josh to Diggs or nothing. I feel Brady has done a better job of taking advantage of week-to-week matchups and getting other players involved. Ironically Diggs has yet to have a really good game since he took over. That’s brings up back to talent. I still think the Bills talent at WR is very average outside of Diggs. When Diggs is coveted like last night, the Bills need someone to step up and make a play. Harty helped on one catch but we need more from this season’s WR group

If you read the Dunne article it said nothing about a struggle. Just that Josh was very confrontational and that one of the anonymous sources which he spoke up against McDermott more often You guys are reading into this way too much. The issue with the Dunne article was that the Bills felt his character was questioned. They never took issue with Dunne thinking he was a lousy coach. This is Josh’s way of defending him.

I honestly don’t believe that the Bills regard him anywhere as high as fans do. The only way I see this happening is if Hyde can’t go and you replace him with Cam Lewis at S. Freeing up a spot for Elam to replace him at CB.

The odd thing I saw online was that Wolfson and another reporter claimed they saw Toney check with the official before the ball was snapped to make sure he was onside. They both later deleted that with zero explanation.

To everyone complaining that Dunne’s article was not a character attack, this is what his good friend and former BN co-worker Tim Graham had to write in his column Sunday: Independent sportswriter Tyler Dunne, a former Bills beat reporter based in Western New York, published a three-part series called “The McDermott Problem.” Dunne’s analysis, heavily leaning on anonymous sources, called McDermott’s tenure “seven years of torture” and stated Buffalo’s coach is an incompetent fraud with pitiful communication skills, a choke artist who must be fired if Buffalo wants to maximize Josh Allen and win a Super Bowl. You can understand why McDermott and the Bills took this personal. It was clearly an attack on his character. Also, note how Graham referenced “heavy leaning on anonymous sources?”

He referred to him as “dad” and had this to say: “With Sean, it’s ‘Come to my office. Talk to me. Let’s sit down, let’s talk about this. You need a day off? OK, cool,’” McKenzie said. “With Sean, the person-to-person is so good that even though you may not like the way certain things are, you still want to play for him because he cares about you off the field.”

I can get this, but Dunne makes his voice and opinion clear in these articles. So it’s not like we’re reading a completely objective news story. It almost reminded me of reading a Jerry Sullivan column in the Buffalo News years ago. But I understand why you are saying. It seemed like Dunne was approaching the article from the opinion that Sean McDermott was the wrong coach in Buffalo and he used some quotes to support his take. I didn’t mind his viewpoint. He brought up some points that I felt were fair. I just questioned the need to include some of those stories which I felt served no other purpose than to embarrass him.

He’s right and this is a societal problem, made worse by the angry mobs on social media. Another example are the comments Josh made in jest on Twitter as a teenager. People still hold that against him this day

“Billsy” moment. Who talks like that? So ridiculous. Besides there would have been 1:15 and 3 timeouts left to win the game. Far from over

I disagree here. There’s valid room to be critical of Dunne’s writing in this article. I question the inclusion of several stories he included in his piece as well as some of the sources he used - all of which were former Bills employees and many who were unhappy. The one argument I don’t buy is the whole thing about the story being his revenge for not getting credentials. I also don’t buy his motivation is to make McDermott look bad because he has a relationship with Whaley and Monos. I personally don’t think it was character assassination. I do feel that Dunne wrote this article with a preconceived idea that McDermott was not the right coach in Buffalo and sought out sources who would could give him “dirt” to help solidly the argument. I’m not sure including the petty comments were necessary to his central argument…but that’s just me. For now… I think Terry’s outlook might change if we have another season like this one.

So I’m going to share Part III next which l found to be much better than Part II. If I get chance, I’ll give a recap of that too. But Part III was all about Josh and it questions whether McDermott is the best match for the QB. This was a very very interesting read and much better than what you read about the team in services like The Athletic etc. Of course, there were a few sour grapes comments from former players/coaches: - McDermott “trashed” Cam Newton in film sessions. - McDermott allegedly upset that Josh was distracted by his house being built. - The claim that McDermott fixes drills so the defense gets the better of the offense in practice. But the most interesting discussion was the dynamic between McDermott and Allen. There is a believe that they have a professional relationship but not a super close one like Daboll and Josh. A far cry from other elite coach and QB duos. Josh is a fiery competitor but also very respectful and non-confrontational. He’s going to listen to his HC and won’t ruffle feathers even when he should. The article mentions how McDermott was critical at times and wanted Josh to slide rather than finishing his runs. This prompted one former teammate to say that they need to trust Josh to run given his durability and that “if he gets hurt, he gets hurt.” The article then deviates into a comparison of Josh and Brett Favre and it brings up a really interesting point. Coach Mike Holmgren came from the Bill Walsh WC offense focused on footwork and time. However Holmgren didn’t force that on Brett and allowed him to play his own game. This is where Dunne said that Ken Dorsey failed as OC. The final part of the article gets right to the point of the dilemma in Buffalo. McDermott is a good coach who will probably never bottom out to get fired - especially with Josh. However there’s some doubt as the whether he’s the right coach in Buffalo and whether he truly gets the most out of his franchise QB. The dream scenario one player said was for the Bills to fire McDermott, retain Brandon Beane, and trade for Brian Daboll. One former player mentioned that there are a half-dozen franchise QB’s, but that there are a LOT more coaches who can win, especially with Allen. The same player felt it would be hard for a new coach to take over and have less success than McDermott. Dunne also speaks to the “it can get worse” fears of the fan base saying that it’s true - but it also can get better. So the question again, is can a defensive minded McDermott evolve his defensive mindset enough to completely embrace what he has in the unicorn at QB? If he can’t, what will it take for Terry to fire him? Because record wise along will probably never be enough to force the issue. Again, this was an outstanding article that I felt had less of slant/bias as the previous 2 editions

Here’s where I differ. That anonymous coach or player that was interviewed likely does not have access to building logs. He was not aware that McDermott slept at work, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. So it’s basically conjecture - yet this is what Dunne chose to put in the article and what you are regarding as a “fact.” Besides, even if he never technically slept at work, does it matter? He clearly worked a lot of long hours in Buffalo and throughout his other stops. We could get into so many areas - maybe he was referring to office sleeping in Buffalo, but to his Carolina or Philadelphia days. Either way we’re getting into semantics here. The response in the video was about setting an example to his children of hard work more than it was about sleeping in the office. This is where it does matter that he used disgruntled coaches with an ax to grind. It’s like the example I used. A boss preaches that supervisors need to be “the first to arrive and the last to leave.” On the day he has to leave early for whatever reason it would be like one of the managers shouting “you said you’re the last one to leave, but you left before us today. You’re a liar.” Sooooo incredibly stupid. And it’s that kind of mentality that has rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way and major reason why Dunne is facing so much blowback from fans and why so many are unwilling to pay a nominal fee of $8 to read his work.

This is basically what I tried to say, but just written a lot better!

I have to respectfully disagree a bit here with your take. Yes, the idea to include that was to show that he doesn’t practice what he preached. But the gist of the article was that McDermott was serious about NFL 24/7 to the point that it became a detriment. So it’s not like we’re talking about a Rex Ryan work ethic. The guy works hard. So for the source to say he never knew of McDermott actually slept in the office or that he wasn’t always the last one out seems a little petty to me. If you’re the boss and you try to set the example of being “the first one in and the last one out,” obviously there are going to some days when this isn’t the case. To me, this kind of pettiness is what happens when you don’t like your boss or supervisor. You look for things that they do wrong and then privately take shots at them. This is where the sour grapes and bitterness in and why people are calling into question Dunne’s bias and where the “character attack” come into play. I haven’t read Part 2 or Part 3 but my guess is that the overall message is - “Is Sean McDermott the right coach to lead Buffalo to the Super Bowl.” That’s a fair and topical question, which I feel could have been achieved without these kind of stories from bitter ex employees. But that’s just me. It’s okay for others to have a different take.

At the behest of @Scott7975 and @PBF81 I gave my $8 to Dunne to read the article. So far I’ve only read part 1. Overall, I’ll say it was an interesting, well-written article. Dunne put a lot of time into this both from a writing and speaking to sources. Is this a “hit piece” on McDermott? I would not it call that. Do I think this information is wrong or misleading? Probably not. However there is definitely a slant to his writing. It’s a column and not a hard news story. So in my opinion to question Dunne’s bias or the motivations behind many of the sources used is fair game. in part 1 Dunne paints McDermott is a “tight,” “robotic,” controlling dictator of a coach of who is effusive of blame. He’s as serious behind the scenes about football as he is on camera. To his credit, Dunne did try to balance the negativity a bit by including comments from Lee Smith and Pat DiMarco - 2 of the 25 sources who didn’t hide behind anonymity. Both me praised McDermott leadership - especially how he turned around the team in 2017. As far as the negativity, anonymous ex coaches and players said that McDermott: - Ripped players/coaches in film sessions - Got ticked off with little things players did during practice that viewed as unprofessional. - Micromanaged his assistants - Was especially strict on work hours for players and coaches. - Not particularly warm to his lower-level support staff. Dunne also used comments from press conferences to show that McDermott was effusive of blame during losses. The “sour grapes” comment really come into play when sources claimed he was jealous players gave the truck to Chad Hall. Also someone referenced the emotional clip from last summer where McDermott talks about the long hours of coaching and sleeping at the facility. One coach disputed that McDermott ever slept at the facility and said there were times when he left earlier than some coaches. These just seem like pot shots to me 🤷‍♂️ Dunne also claimed Bills assistants are “leaving in droves” to take lateral moves. Seems to be a hyperbolic to me. For example he cited Heath Farwell’s move to Jacksonville, however I didn’t get the impression they wanted him back. Ditto for Bobby Johnson. If I cared more I would actually do the math. Finally Dunne claimed McDermott wanted Leslie Frazier gone and the resignation was PR spin. According to “sources” close to Leslie he realized Buffalo was not the right situation for him so the split was amicable in that way. In the end, Dunne admits none of McDermott’s behavior is especially egregious or extreme for a head coach in the NFL and cites that Belichick is the same way. What’s missing with McDermott is the SB rings. So if you don’t like McDermott you’ll love this article. If you’re on the fence or if you like McDermott I don’t think it will move the needle for you. But if you’re interested in the Bills, this is an enjoyable read. I don’t feel like I’ve wasted $8 after part 1. I just feel it should be read w/ a critical lens. Not to say that Dunne is biased but to remember the perspectives and motivations of former players and coaches in Buffalo who were either fired or unhappy. Also remember there’s three sides to the truth. Think of a former workplace. If you liked your boss your experience was likely positive. If you don’t like your boss it was probably negative. I think it’s that simple here.

I actually understand the timing for Dunne. He wants to get it out there when fan attention is at an all-time high. Like he said the Philly game kind of showcased everything he was discussing, so it made sense to publish when he did IMO this is a fair concluding to make.

That’s why I think it’s funny when people who defend are like “read the article.” 🤣

Everyone wants to compare McDermott to Marty Schottenheimer or Marvin Jones and I don’t think these are equitable. What I keep coming back to is Minnesota with Mike Zimmer. Not exactly the same situation but similar. Minnesota replaced a relatively successful defensive-minded HC, with someone regarded as a younger, creative offensive mind. Sample size is small but the results (so far) have been relatively good. In 2021, the defense did take a step back but the offense took a step forward and the resulting in their most wins (thanks to several flukes) since 2017. Also his offense got much out of Kirk Cousins. Then this season, Cousins was off to a great start and despite a season long injury, they are in the mix for a playoff spot - largely because of the offense. So I keep thinking back to O’Connell who isn’t a thought of to be a top 5 HC, maybe not even a better HC than Zimmer. But he’s getting better results based on his background. You can almost argue the inverse with Zimmer and McDermott (this season at least)

IMO this was a good, protective move to try to shake up a stale aspect of the team. I just think it was somewhat of a mistake for McDermott to add DC play calling on his workload. There’s a number of experienced DC’s on his staff along with several up and comers who might have been able to breath new life into the same defense

They weren’t asked about McDermott specifically during the media access this week, as the article came out on the same day. I’m guessing it will happen Sunday or next week?

It’s going to make being a Bills fan insufferable in places like Twitter. TBH, I’m on the fence about McDermott. I think the concerns about the end of games are valid. I also think that because people don’t have confidence in him they’ll grasp at anything negative and assign blame to McDermott. An example as evidenced here is the dude who said every bad draft pick was McDermott and every good one was Beane. Or how Dorsey’s shortcomings as an OC, which have been well documented, were all on McDermott under the “he’s the head coach” cop out. While Dorsey was a lackluster hire, no one was a bigger proponent than Josh Allen. The hire, although a bad one in hindsight, made a lot of sense. I felt Dunne went a step further in his article with the negative personal stories from the Quinton Spain’s of the world. Which of course those people read and are “See…see…” As long as people are fair, I don’t have a problem with the McDermott criticism. Many of us have it as well. I think there always has been a strong emphasis on defense… I would love to see the inverse of that.

“He interviewed 25 people” is the answer to anyone criticizing Dunne’s story. So…based on your contract within the building (both past and present) what is McDermott’s job security for next season?

“I spent my 20 year-career reading people” - “This means I can tell you which people are frauds and which ones aren’t frauds by watching them on TV” Makes sense.