SirAndrew

I agree, if the testing thing works out, I could name a hundred other careers where I’d feel more at risk. Even in NY, the shining example of how to deal with the virus, only long term care workers are tested. Most other health care workers aren’t tested on a regular basis. The truth is, some HCW’s don’t even have the proper PPE yet, reusing masks for days, no N95’s, etc. I also think of all the construction workers and roofers I see packed together everyday, somewhat wearing their masks. NFL players rank somewhere mid level of the workers I’m most concerned about.

I truly respect your opinions, and you come across as being very educated and informed. I apologize if I came across as thinking I know anything about this. I’m not a scientist, educator, or epidemiologist. I’m simply sharing personal anecdotes of what I’m seeing in the communities I work. I don’t have an appropriate link to the data I want, because it’s not out there on the web. Sure, I can find the numbers of positives for each county, but nothing shows when they occurred, such as using a line/bar graph with the months. Our local paper has the totals everyday. The numbers from back in early June have probably increased by about 1/4 in the last month, showing that our graph would be level, and not the downhill slope you really want. Health care workers in some of these rural areas are seeing more positives in the last month, than they saw in the first three months of this pandemic. It’s not raging out of control like it was in NYC, and our hospitalizations have gone down. Many of these positives are attributed to pre-op testing, and health care workers. I’m actually seeing this, and not just assuming this. When I see that, I can’t help but think this widespread in the community. I live in NY, but I don’t feel all warm and fuzzy about going out, even with a mask. We’ve seen a direct correlation between this increase and the opening of indoor dining and bars as well. I’m not denying NY state’s success, and the numbers aren’t a complete lie. NYC was a disaster that slowed greatly. The shutdown did its job of not overwhelming hospitals. We are not at risk for that up here at the time, so that’s a job well done. I’m just making the point that it’s reduced to a slow burn. If we don’t have a vaccine within the next few years, there’s going to be a ton of people who get this virus, even in NYS. It didn’t go anywhere, we just slowed it down. Eventually, all these states that are a disaster will slow the spread, but it’s still going to spread everywhere slowly until we have a vaccine. You understand that, so I’m not attempting to sound condescending, I just mean the sole purpose of this is to avoid overwhelming the system. The majority of the population will get this virus at some point if we can’t create a vaccine ASAP (I hope we can soon). As far as your suggestion that people other than HCW, pre-op testing, and sick people are being tested regularly, I’m curious to know who else you think is regularly tested ?

I understand your point, but even the smallest comments these days pose larger philosophical questions. Obviously, a human life is worth more than any paycheck. Many workers run the risk of infecting themselves, or a loved one everyday, and it can be overwhelming. If I knew with certainty something awful happens as a result of my working, I’d quit my job, and live on the street. However, do we always go to the worst case scenario when making a decision ? If you did that with everything, you wouldn’t do much of anything. I’ve been misunderstood on this board as not taking this virus seriously, but that’s not the case whatsoever. I just don’t see how anyone can get consumed solely into worst case logic when making a decision. If a player opts out, I respect that as they are financially able to do so. Comparing them the average Joe is apples and oranges, but I just mean that death shouldn’t always be everyone’s first thought. I don’t feel invisible at all, and have no desire to find out how I react to this virus, but it all feels inevitable at this point, and I try to not be all doom and gloom about what might happen in the future.

It is, I just don’t want to see players turn this into some kind of deal about being victimized by the owners.

Yeah, but he doesn’t have to visit his mother. That’s his choice, and it’s also his choice not to play if he does want to visit his mother. No one is being forced to do anything.

This is probably better on the PPP forum, so it will be last response as well. I’ve seen a lot of what is going on up close and personal, and the stories you hear in the media are only the tip of the iceberg. NY state peaked, and reduced the tragedy in NYC by shutting down. Shutting down is the only way to slow the virus. It’s a huge misnomer to the think the virus has been eradicated in NY state like many people seem to believe. Many upstate counties have seen over 25 % of their total cases occur in the last two weeks. I’m seeing what leads me to believe large spread community transmission is happening up here. If we spike and see more cases of people who become ill, maybe another shutdown happens, who knows ? Shutdowns are the only answer, but society can’t function with them for long periods of time. That was my only point. NY slowed the virus, but it’s far from gone. I just wanted to share what I’m seeing, and I don’t think we can take much comfort in any numbers, unless there is a vaccine that works. I’m seeing cases in Upstate everyday, which makes me feel like I’m living in an alternate reality to what everyone thinks about NY. NY state and NYC are two different entities. NY state isn’t done with this virus, and who knows what happens with the city once they reopen. Yes, our numbers are much better, that’s the truth, but people are talking like NY completely eliminated the virus. It’s out there enough to come back. NY state peaked, and is on the downslope now. Health care workers, pre op appointments, and sick people are the only ones being tested. Local counties near me with small populations are picking up decent numbers of positive asymptomatic people everyday. It tells me community transmission is still big around here. That’s all I was sharing as my belief as to why I feel like it’s everywhere, and tough to run from without a vaccine.

Exactly, just stay home if you want, but the attempts to drum up public support for their cause seem ridiculous. In MLB, Mike Trout expressed concerns about his pregnant wife, yet he’s at practice with his team. If he doesn’t feel safe, just leave practice, go home, stay safe, and skip this year. There’s no need for the public contemplation of what you should do imo. I’m might just be taking it wrong, but it feels like some guys are playing the sympathy card. If you want me to feel sympathetic, tell me about a cops pregnant wife or something, not a millionaire who could just stay home. If they could get fast, accurate test results, there’s no reason not to play. However, I’m not sure how big of a hurdle that is at this point. The league hasn’t really said much about how that plan is going.

Well said, I get tired of this idea that NFL owners are some evil entity that uses forced labor to profit. The owners are out to make a buck, that’s how the world works. We are in the middle of a pandemic, yet millions of people have been called back to work. It’s not just NFL owners who need to stay profitable. If a guy doesn’t want to play, that’s fine, but I was just surprised with the amount of sympathy over their “plight” when some of them decided to voice concerns publicly.

I never said most of what you assume . I wear a mask, I take precautions, I believe it’s real and dangerous, and I understand that we don’t want the health care system to be overwhelmed. You seem overly sensitive. At no point did I say I don’t care about society. I’m making the point that shutdowns were to prevent the system from being overwhelmed. There were never any guarantees we would prevent the majority of the population from being exposed to the virus. That’s the point I was making, and didn’t mean for it to sound poorly. We have no clue when an EFFECTIVE vaccine will be available. I hope the virus doesn’t take too many lives, but there might be nothing stopping the majority of us from being exposed, unless we stay permanently shut down. It can be dangerous, so I don’t lack an understanding of that. I’m making the point that people will be exposed until we find a vaccine. I’ve been exposed, and I am “ Harry the hypertensive”, but I have mouths to feed, so I can’t sit in fear everyday. I take precautions, because I’m not the ignorant anti mask/anti precautions person you assume me to be. The virus is so out of control right now, I simply question the logic of people who think they will escape ever being exposed, it was just a thought. I don’t believe it can be “contained” or eradicated without a vaccine, because it is too widespread in the states. With all due respect, I’d love to hear how you think it can be contained at this point ? I genuinely would like to hear some ideas. Other than a complete shutdown of the country, I don’t see containment happening. I’m cool with any athlete who chooses to sit out. I’d use the money to self quarantine as well. I simply questioned how many athletes who sit out the season would actual do that, or be out at clubs etc. That’s just my bias towards 20 something pro athletes, but it was simply my only question.

How much testing does India do ? And how accurate do they keep tabs on Covid 19 death stats ? I’m not saying we’re doing a great job, but there is always more to everything than what meets the eye.

I get this, but I’m saying that many people don’t understand that, and it becomes dangerous when the public loses trust. Most scientific research isn’t consumed by the masses. This is the first issue in a long time where people are actually paying any attention to what science says. It would be better to use an abundance of caution, because we don’t know anything. It’s kind of like the question of whether children can spread the virus. Various organizations have said they can, some claim they can’t, and the CDC now says “we don’t have evidence that children are driving my the cycle of transmission” They never said children can’t spread the virus, they are just saying they don’t have evidence. If they discover the opposite, many people will feel as if they are being lied to (even though that’s not true) The truth is we don’t know much , and the only way to keep safe is taking precautions. We are stuck in a world of the twenty four hour news cycle. Every thought and idea comes out, and people don’t know how to properly consume it. That’s my point, sometimes people need less information in order to make them better understand an issue. I don’t think the information overload is making things better. I’m concerned too, I just think this virus is so common there is no stopping it. I don’t think there is much we can do at this point to stop most people from being exposed to it. It’s everywhere, and I think people are trying to make themselves feel better thinking we can stop it now. I believe in wearing masks and taking precautions, but I don’t think we can contain it, unless we want to be shutdown another year, then many of these same people are complaining about not having a job.

The problem is we live in a social media generation. Scientists, doctors, academics, and public health organizations are posting their thoughts without enough scientific evidence to back them. The truth is, no one knows much of anything about this virus. Unfortunately, experts who are supposed to be trusted continue to make statements they are forced to retract.

Fair enough, I know my opinion on this isn’t popular. Players have every right to be concerned, and I understand it. At the same time, I don’t really trust twenty something guys to quarantine themselves at home, which is exactly what makes the season a challenge. If the season is called off, I doubt some of the guys who are ”concerned” all stay home, and avoid being exposed to the virus via parties, clubs, etc. If these guys say “ I want my salary, but I’m uncomfortable with playing”, I hope they legitimately use that money to quarantine themselves at home. Anything else would be a bit disingenuous. Honestly, I think most players will be fine with playing, if it can actually happen.

He wasn’t “concerned” about practicing with a bunch of teammates in Florida. I just find that inconsistent. I’m trying not to voice any controversial Covid comments, but you’d think a guy who was “concerned” wouldn’t hang around a bunch of teammates with no masks. Kind of like Malcolm Jenkins saying he’s not sure if the season is safe, yet he’s marching in protests. Live your life, but I just like consistency. I’m all in favor of keeping people safe, but you can’t have it both ways.

I’m not specifically talking about Diggs here, but comments like his just made wonder how many guys might want to sit out the season knowing it will be a cluster and complete headache. I’m not saying it isn’t valid for a player to be concerned about Covid, but they also know they can cite it as a reason not to play, and most fans will be sympathetic. I’m just skeptical knowing most twenty something guys don’t have much fear, and many of them have already done things that show lack of fear about the pandemic. I shouldn’t question someones true intent, but this will be a strange season. It’s uncertain if it will ever begin, if it will get cut short, or if entire teams will be sidelined, forcing them to forfeit. Those are all great reasons to be uncertain about the season. I think players have other motives in addition to Covid that might make them want to sit out.

I know this isn’t the popular opinion everyone has been conditioned to believe, but when I see things like that, it only confirms how common this virus is among the population. It shows that it’s everywhere, and by the time it’s over most of us will probably get it. That’s not saying it can’t be dangerous, and I’m not saying I’m safe from it. I’m simply making the point that when something is that common, there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. He did say he “ wasn't comfortable”, no need to call anyone an idiot. I just think it’s funny he was comfortable enough to hang out with a bunch of guys, and yet not comfortable playing a football season. We’re going to get a lot of athletes talking about how they are afraid to play because of Covid, yet we’ll see them hanging out at parties, and going to the bar etc. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Funny how Diggs is afraid to play the season, yet a huge number of Bills players got together for practice. They even took a group picture all huddled together with no masks. Who knows how many guys came out of the practice as positive asymptomatic if they had been tested. People are real idiots about this virus. It seems like they pick and choose when they want to be safe.

I agree, I think Bills fans would be fine with Allen taking all the cash he wants, if we become a consistent contender. You can’t assume how the fans would react based on guys like Mario Williams. The drought years were brutal, and everyone was looking for scapegoats. You also had people like me who didn’t understand why teams who weren’t contenders, would pay big time bucks for some of those guys. Many of our highly compensated players were poor attempts to keep the franchise relevant, while not investing in the proper areas. The players themselves happened to take the blame for being unable to lift the team above being bottom feeders.

Yeah, and I read a post around here talking about the financial issues going on with fracking, so it sure is good we didn’t draft him. ?

Yes indeed, I just can’t believe anyone cares that much about a team name. I don’t care what they do, and that was my opinion on this topic. I was curious what everyone thought, and discovered there’s more passion than I could ever put into something over the name of a football team. It’s all good, I shared my opinion, now I’ll sit back and watch both sides bicker.

You can always tell a lot about priorities from these arguments, and why the things we need to repair as a society continue to get ignored. I’m concerned about things like the decline of the nuclear family, drug addiction, and other social issues that are huge problems. These are actual threats to the well being of our future. Changing or keeping the name of the Redskins doesn’t qualify as such a threat. Personally, I don’t really care, but I’m not going to get outraged over something so small.

Yep, the owners will definitely be the ones pushing for a season. I get your point, if you have millions in the bank, why not sit out while the virus is around. However, the majority of people don’t have the ability to tell their employer, “ I’m afraid of the virus, let me sit out for a year, and I’ll be back next year”. Regardless of what you have in the bank, you’d no longer have a job. It’s only football, it’s not that big of a deal, but it could be one of those circumstances that leaves fans feeling a bit jaded if players really did refuse to play. It’d be another example of how pro athletes live in their own little world. Personally, I think most players will want to play. It’s what they do, and guys that age don’t have a whole lot of fear, no matter how warranted. My comments were mostly intended for the crowd who consistently mentions, “ what about their families, pregnant wives, and grandparents”. I understand the point, but I don’t see anyone worrying about the other millions of other Americans out there working. I mean, there’s pregnant women working the front lines with Covid patients, and no one is stopping them from doing it. It makes any outrage over the “greedy owners” wanting to force the players to play a bit over the top. These guys are compensated nicely, and would be asked to return to work, just as you’d expect an owner to ask of his employees.

There’s been some disappointment during the McDermott regime as expected, but I love how we always show up against inferior and equal opponents. We’ve lost big to some good teams, but almost always win the games we should. That’s indicative of a well coached team, and it’s something we haven’t seen around here in years.

I get your point, but playing is their job and livelihood. What about all the other people who can’t just quit their jobs because going to work puts them and their family in danger ? Most people don’t have the luxury of a union that might say, “ it’s too dangerous to work let’s not do it”, and the luxury of NFL salaries. Everyone who leaves their home is in danger of getting the virus at this point, not just athletes. It’s their job, and it’s no different than the guy who has to work the fast food drive thru, or anything else we technically don’t need to survive. Maybe I’ve just given up on this virus. It all feels very defeating imo, why cancel the NFL when it feels inevitable that the majority of us will get the virus before a vaccine anyway. Sorry, but that’s my logic.

“Stay home if you’re part of that group” also doesn’t work because people who work with vulnerable populations need to buy groceries. Every time someone chooses to make a “political statement” by not wearing a mask, they could potentially kill dozens of people by infecting a health care worker. Sometimes I feel awkward being out wearing a mask amongst all the non mask wearing people. Believe what you want, but I don’t understand why the mask thing has become a political debate. It has nothing to do with politics. It’s simply a rule right now to keep us safe, I don’t see people running around openly protesting other such rules.