Shaw66

Thanks for the post, but I disagree. Increasingly, I'm coming to understand that Edmunds is playing the position you're talking about. In most of the sets he plays in, he isn't asked to be a run stopping lineback like Brown or Pos or Roquan Smith. His role isn't "stop the run and drop back in a zone some of the time." His role is very much different. His role in the run game is to run down the ball carrier if he breaks past the line of scrimmage. Hamlin and Taron Johnson are asked to make more tackles in the backfield than Edmunds is. The Bills don't want Edmunds in the backfield. He's the first line of defense in a the safety net that is designed to stop big plays, and he does that very well. In the Bills defense, tackling the ball five yards downfield IS a win, because it's not 15 yards downfield. It's exactly what the Bills want if the defensive line couldn't hold the line. He's not reasonably strong in coverage; he's great in coverage. Not because he gets pass breakups or INTs; he's great in coverage because he occupies more space in the zone than any other linebacker in the league, because his combination of length, speed, and quickness is unmatched in the league. The result of all of this is that to the uninformed fan, like me, he doesn't look spectacular. He doesn't get sacks, he doesn't get tackles for loss, he doesn't get INTs. He is, however, absolutely perfect for the way McDermott and Frazier want to play defense.

!!!! Great!

I'd love to know what Frazier and McDermott think. We'll know in the next few months.

Thanks. That's interesting and makes at least some sense. I don't see it that way. I didn't see plays where we was getting eaten up or picking the wrong gaps, but I will readily acknowledge that that could have happened. I didn't watch him every play. But as for the bolded part, that is exactly what the Bills ask him to do. They want him to play pass defense and clean up the tackles where the defensive line doesn't make a stop. They don't ask him to plug gaps, because if he's plugging gaps he can't play the pass coverage he does. Guys who plug gaps have to respect the run fake, and that defeats their drops. Bills do NOT want him plugging gaps. They just want the MLB to make tackles downfield. I

But his job is to make those tackles. That's my point. It's not to make tackles for loss. In fact, his presence is what allows Milano get TFLs. He's doing his job, and 16 tackles says he's not missing a lot. Plus he's being more physical, and he's covering a big zone in the pass defense.

I looked but didn't see a Tremaine Edmunds thread. Well, one that was locked. I was at the game and have had the benefit of no real discussion of the game. All I knew at the game was that every time I looked, Edmunds was making another tackle. Not always picture book, but he wasn't missing many. And his tackles generally were near the line of scrimmage. And he had a pass break up that nearly was intercepted. What is interesting about Edmunds this season is that he's making good stops in the run game, because he isn't being blocked. The D line, I think, is making it tough for offensive linemen to get to the linebacker level, and Edmunds is able to read and react. He's been a sure tackler, and his pas coverage last night also seemed solid. Milano makes more spectacular plays, but I think Edmunds may have had more impact on the defense. He's not Roquan Smith; he's not plugging gaps and making a bunch of tackles that way. He really is protecting the whole field, laterally. His job is make sure that the Bills bend but don't break. 16 tackles is nothing to sneer at, even if it happened because the Packers featured the run. Yes, the Packers had a lot of statistical success running the ball, but the Bills are willing to give them that success. I know that sounds stupid, and McDermott would never say it, but let's face it: This team is built to say the opponent, "We're going to put up 28 or more - we challenge you to match it." Their defensive style very much is, "If you're going to move the ball, you're going to do it only with long, sustained drives. If you can do that, you'll get some scores against us, but we don't think you can do that and get to 28." And that is exactly what happened last night. The way that kind of defensive philosophy succeeds is that you make a lot tackles (notice that the Bills often lose time of possession and often have fewer plays than the opponent, which means the Bills are making a lot tackles). Last night, those tackles came to Edmunds. I don't know what I missed about his performance, and I'll be happy to hear what others thought.

This. I was sitting in the stadium last night, and on the TDs (and on a few other throws) all I could do was think, "Well, that's Aaron Rodgers" and appreciate the beauty of it. The good news is that there are very few like Rodgers, and one of them plays for the Bills.

The league really doesn't want players taking their helmets off. Maybe the first time a guy on the team gets flagged for it, it should be just a warning to the team. Next time they get flagged, they lose the 15 yards.

Sorry. I just dropped in here, and I don't know what people said about Jets-Pats, but I found it very interesting. Announcers said the Jets need to be careful not to fall into the Patriots vortex, and that's exactly what happened. You could see the Pats begin to dictate the style and speed of the game by being really tough, really disciplined, and mistake-free (more or less). It's nice to have another loss pinned on the Jets, but the Patriots are the Patriots. I don't care what their record is, you don't want to play them. Bills are clearly better than both, but the Pats, at least, are two games left on the schedule that will be a real battle. And the Jets probably will be tough too. On the other hand, when you focus on the abilities of those two quarterbacks and the abilities of Josh Allen, it's laughable. The game was pretty boring, but there was a lot of interest to Bills fans on display in that game.

Nice, nice story.

That's what I was thinking as I listened to the Chiefs' game yesterday. The Chiefs' announcers (who are excellent by the way - great play-by-play) reported absolutely joyously how their offense was taking apart the #1 defense on the road. They conveniently forgot that the same offense was pretty much stymied at home by the Bills the week before.

Heres what i said on page 3. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/243054-genesis-of-your-screen-name/?do=findComment&comment=7979178

And we have a winner!

Ooh, that's great! When I wrote mine, I was thinking about a list of names that represented the name I might have chosen from different decades. Joe was the obvious choice for the 70. Smerlas, Talley, Moulds, Freddy and Kyle.

I discovered Bills fan forums in 2005. I wanted a name that reflected the era I became a Bills fan, and I wanted a name that would remind some fans, and educate others, about the greatness of that era. Billy Shaw wasn't my favorite player or anything like that, but I decided he would be best because his career in pro football spanned pretty much the entire AFL era, and because of his class and football excellence. It didn't occur to me at the time to ask permission to use his name and number, because at the time it didn't occur to me that I would write all the stuff I've written over the years. Only player in the Pro Football Hall of Fame who never played a down in the NFL. You want to improve the Bills' running game? Get another Billy Shaw.

All I remember is I heard someone who seemed to know he was talking about say that running the stretch handoff is more effective in the wide zone than running out of the gun. He didn't explain why, and I don't know enough to know whether what he said actually makes sense. He didn't say you can't run it from the gun; obviously, you can. He said it was more effective.

I agree. I don't understand the blocking schemes well enough to say anything particularly intelligent about them, but I think your question is the right question. It seems to me that the offensive line is built be able to play all styles, with an emphasis on athleticism and mobility. I can understand the attraction of the outside zone plays because, as I said, they tend make the blocks easier to execute because the d line is being forced laterally. They obviously like to get linemen downfield ahead of the backs. Dominating at the point of attack is always going to be a weakness with linemen like the Bills seem to like.

I think this is true. Singletary and Moss are really pretty good in the hole. They use shiftiness and power to beat arm tackles in the hold. But they aren't so good at the quick changes of directions. So, for example, on Cook's touchdown run a couple weeks ago, Singletary probably could have made the cut to the left to got Cook the room to sprint to the end zone, but it was easy to see how much more naturally Cook made that cut. For him, it was almost effortless. That sort of change of direction is what makes a good back in the outside zone blocking scheme.

I'm not sure this is correct. I heard some expert say a few weeks ago that the outside zone game works best when the QB is under center and executes the stretch handoff. In fact, I noticed on Sunday that Allen was making the stretch handoff a few times, something that I hadn't noticed previously. It may have something to do with the back being able to break wide on the snap, rather than waiting for the snap to reach the shotgun QB and make the handoff, so the back has a head start to the edge. It stresses the defense, because all the d linemen are flowing with offensive linemen. If the back can break that way on the snap, the d linemen have to commit that way in a hurry. It's that movement that makes the zone blocks easier to execute, because the d lineman are moving laterally immediately and are less able to take on linemen coming at them.

I don't want to bury McKenzie just yet, but I think this is pretty accurate. Shakir is, to me, a fundamentally different player than McK. In fact, I think it's the fundamentals that make him different. I watch Shakir and I see a student of the game, a guy who truly fits the "growth mindset" character. I see a guy who has worked every day on the field since high school to play the game the way it's supposed to be played. He catches the ball almost effortlessly, and almost always securely because, I think, he has made ball security a primary responsibility for years. I see a guy who runs routes effectively because, I think, he's worked since high school to understand offenses and his role in them. He just seems to play with his head completely in the game, all the time. He isn't Cooper Kupp, but he plays with the same kind of mastery of the position that Kupp displays - just do everything right and as well as you can, every play. He just gives me that feeling. Boise State isn't a football factory, but they seem to develop smart, heady players who understand the game. I think Shakir is one. That's the kind of guy who becomes a quarterback's security blanket. Beasley was a security blanket on certain kinds of plays, but not all over the field. Diggs is now the security blanket, in part because Dorsey is being so creative that teams simply are unable to shut him down. I think what will happen is that Shakir will become the guy who can take advantage of the fact that teams are so desperate to stop Diggs that they leave holes elsewhere. Shakir is the guy who will fill those holes. Here he is on a slant, there he's finding the soft spot in the zone, he's the came coming back to Allen when he's in trouble. It already looks like Allen is finding him in those ways, and they're just getting used to each other. It's easy to see a starting receiving trio of Diggs, Davis, and Shakir. All can play over the middle, all can go deep, all have sure hands, all have good relationships with Allen.

Thanks for replying. I hadn't focused very well on the numbers you or others had presented earlier. I agree, those numbers really are outliers. I'd guess it's happening to Allen because teams are doing to him what I described that many teams are doing to all mobile QBS: They're asking their d linemen to play more of a containment game, rushing within their lanes, going after sacks less aggressively and making it difficult for the QB to find running lanes. Because they aren't getting to the QB as effectively doing that, they're told to make sure that their hands are up. So why is impacting Allen more than the others? Well, maybe it's because the shorter QBs who are mobile always have had to worry about batted balls, because they couldn't see over the linemen - they've already developed the ability to find windows to throw the ball through. Brees was masterful at it, Wilson had to do it, and it's probably the case that Murray, Jackson and Mahomes all have found it necessary from day one in the NFL to do it. Allen didn't have to, because he could see over the line. Now that d lines are changing their rushing technique and getting their hands up more often, Allen will have to make the same adjustment the others already have made. Just a hunch. Whatever the cause, with Allen being such an outlier I'm sure that the coaches and Allen are addressing it.

Actually, that's a good point. I'd say the Allen-McKenzie fumble was a risky play - I don't think we've seen it before, and it clearly was a wrinkle, not a core play. But in general, I think you're correct. Allen still makes the occasional Favre-like throws, throws that suggest he thinks he can do ANYTHING, but he clearly has been getting that behavior under control. It always amazed me that Favre never learned.

Yes. I agree with Virgil, that the throw to Knox was really special. And that throw to Diggs (two years ago, I think) was special. What's amazing about Allen is that in Allen's world, those throws are ordinary. They're just special for every other QB.

Virgil - One of your best. Absolutely right on the money on many things - Allen, Mahomes, Diggs-Dorsey, officials, etc. Excellent. A couple of places where I think there's more to be said. Mistakes. There have been several comments about points left on the board, mistakes, etc. There also have been several comments about how the Bills' margin of victory is becoming historic, and I think the two are related. When you have an offense that can perform like this offense, and a defense that can perform like this defense, you can take more chances. Even if you screw up, there's a good chance that the offense or the defense or both will bail you out. So, the smart thing to do is to push the envelope and take more chances. That necessarily will result in more mistakes. In the face of a good pass rush, Tom Brady would fall to the ground, take the sack, move on to the next play, because minimizing mistakes was part of what made him great. In the face of a good pass rush, like Chris Jones coming at him, Allen looks for ways to extend the play. Does he get in trouble sometimes? Yes, but he also makes some jaw-dropping plays that Brady only dreams about. I think we'll always see some mistakes from this team. Kelce. Everyone obsesses over Kelce. Here's why you shouldn't: Tight ends cannot and do not carry your passing offense. If they do, like Mark Andrews, the defense can and does focus on them and stop them. When the Bills play the Chiefs, Kelce is not the focus - Mahomes is. The entire defensive game play was designed around containing Mahomes and limiting his effectiveness. It was different last season, because beside Mahomes, the Bills needed to find a way to keep Hill from going off. On top of the focus when they play the Chiefs, in general, the Bills defense is designed to stop the big plays and the runs, and that makes the Bills vulnerable over the middle. It's been the nature of this defense for past few years. The Bills allow a lot of completions over the middle, and they rely on their defenders to be in the vicinity and to make the tackles to keep those plays from turning into big plays. That's why everyone complains about Edmunds' pass coverage, and it's also why Edmunds gets so many tackles. So, when the Bills play the Chiefs, they're playing against the best tight end, a guy who's great at operating over the middle, and he catches a lot of balls. The Bills know it's going to happen, but they also know it's Mahomes, not Kelce, who's going to beat them. Milano. I don't disagree, at all. He's amazing. But let's recognize that both Milano and Edmunds are making the plays they do because of how much better the d line is this season. Milano, Edmunds, Hamlin, Johnson are making plays at the line of scrimmage because the d line is occupying the blockers. By the way, I think I and maybe others fail to appreciate fully how magnificent this defense really is. While writing the last paragraph, I decided I ought to look to see where the Bills linebackers stand in terms of total tackles, and I discovered something pretty amazing. First, Edmunds (in one fewer game) has more tackles (36) than Milano. He leads the team. What's amazing is that while Edmunds leads the team in tackles, he is 59th in total tackles in the league. 59th!!! How can the best tackler on the best defense be only 59th in total tackles? This defense is a team defense. It's not led by stars - it's led by a philosophy that says everyone does his 1/11th. So, the tackles are spread around. Taron Johnson has 35.

Well, of course this is correct. Twenty years from now, few people are going to look back and talk about how dominant the Bills were if they don't win any Super Bowls. People now give the Kelly Bills their due, but only grudgingly. The Cowboys get the nod in that era, and rightfully so. And the 'niners. But it's also a silly way to look at it. What Wingo is pointing out is that the Bills are dominating teams in an extraordinary way, and that is completely consistent with what a lot of people, all over the country, are saying about the Bills. Think about it: when was the last time a team that's never won a Super Bowl lost in the divisional round of the playoffs and six months later was the odds-on favorite to win the Super Bowl? That's what the Bills did. Why? Because pretty much everyone could see at the end of last season how good the Bills were, and everyone could see that during the off-season the Bills got better. Listen to the talking heads. It's almost like there's the Bills and then there's the rest of the league. Everyone talks about how they have the best quarterback and the best roster. Everyone says they are the complete team. There's a sense of awe in it - how could they be THIS good? Yes, maybe the bubble will break, or maybe the Bills will stumble every season on the way to the Lombardi and be remembered like the Kelly Bills. But that's not what people are seeing in this team today. They're seeing greatness. As they say, it's about the journey, not the destination. If all you're doing is waiting to celebrate when they get to the destination, then you're missing the journey. To fill you in, so far it's been a helluva ride. There are a lot miles to go before the Bills win it all, and I'm intending to enjoy every minute.