transplantbillsfan

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/murphy-rodgers-saga-dividing-fan-base "The situation we face with Aaron Rodgers has divided our fan base. The emails and letters that I've received reflect this fact. As I wrote here last month, we remain committed to resolving things with Aaron and want him to be our quarterback in 2021 and beyond. We are working to resolve the situation and realize that the less both sides say publicly, the better."

The whole show was fantastic. Brought me back to my True Detective days... season 1 of which might be the best "standalone show" I've ever seen.

Means nothing because it's practice... but Singletary sure does separate himself from the pack in that RB drill.

I will happily take a look at all the plays you direct my attention to. It's pretty easy... just say time and quarter and I can easily find the play... unless of course you're making stuff up and talking out your butt...

Well... this I agree with. This is also very, very different from what @NewEra stated.

Ya know... this might be an argument if there weren't so many other "more" reasonable posters making the same arguments I am. But they are, so your ad hominem attack fails and makes it pretty clear you're desperate at this point... that's just too bad... That's fine. I don’t believe you.

We didn't actually land on the Moon. I don't have time to prove it. You don't believe me? That's on you.

This thread is a question of which QB you want moving forward, not which QB you would have wanted in their first 3 years. For that reason, it's important to consider the very different circumstances of each player... because the whole premise is the idea of giving each guy the other guy's circumstances moving forward. If only Duke Williams came down with that dime of a TD pass from Allen at the end of the 1st half.

Now you're being disingenuous. You made the initial accusation, not me. Most people watching that game saw Allen running for his life as an entirely and pretty seriously injured WR corps struggled to get open against a physical secondary. So, you made the claim... where are all these plays?

Who's arguing that Allen is better? Some of us are arguing Allen will be better, but I haven't seen a single person say that at this moment Allen is better.

He did, but having Diggs in 2019 wouldn't have hurt. And I refer us back to Alex Smith's interview about Andy Reid. If Josh is in KC and gets that redshirt year like Mahomes maybe his mechanics are fixed by the time he starts a full season (2nd year in the NFL) as opposed to his 3rd year in the NFL.

I have Gamepass and All-22 access... can you please direct our attention to the myriad of plays with guys running open and Josh missing them?

I've heard Greg Cossell in more than one interview call Josh Allen the most talented QB in the NFL, 2021 draft picks like Lawrence included. One of those was on The Herd and I think another was on One Bills Lite with Chris Brown and Steve Tasker.

To build off this... by year 3 on their respective teams one won a league MVP and a Super Bowl and the other came in 2nd in league MVP voting and made it to a conference championship game. Even in a vacuum--without considering the respective circumstances I keep coming back to--those 2 QBs aren't far apart.

Don't you understand that this swapping of circumstances is the entire point of this exercise, though? Mahomes would now be in Buffalo with below average Tight Ends (which he relies heavily on), no capable running game (which he's had pretty much his entire stint in KC) and no deep threat speedsters like Hill and Hardman. Allen, on the other hand, would get an upgrade in weapons (Kelce, Hill, Hardman), a capable running game, and an offensive coach who is a QB guru. We make that trade and I am sure both players are still great, but giving Allen that might let him improve over the next few years than he will in Buffalo... especially when we lose Daboll. Allen goes to KC and becomes the GOAT. That’s a Buffalo swap... I'll give you guys that.

Really? You can't piece that together? There were similar evaluations of Mahomes and Allen coming out. Mahomes had one circumstance I would call ideal. Allen had another circumstance where he was thrown to the wolves. Now swap players and circumstance and speculate away... understand? Well said

No. Not that he's "only better than Josh because of the talent around him." I'm saying (because I'm probably one of the ones you're referring to) that Mahomes has had the incredible benefit of circumstance at the start of his career... almost the opposite of Allen. That's not to say that Mahomes isn't uber talented. He is. It's to say that you need to consider all of those circumstances in this situation, especially considering that as Josh's circumstances have been getting better, his improvement has been as drastic as you see on a year by year basis. This is very close as far as discussion goes. And Mahomes is better right now. I'll say that again... right now, Patrick Mahomes is better as a QB than Josh Allen. But it's gotten very, very close after 2020. So, one camp is in "I'll believe it when he is better" mode. But this is an exercise that legitimately does ask you to project into the future... even if it's the immediate future. This is projecting what they will do. And the camp that I'm in is that I've watched a QB who didn't have the traditional QB upbringing with all the 7 on 7 camps and grew into his body late (you can verify that from multiple videos and interviews you can find from him and family members) and played at a JuCo getting likely very little NFL development and then played at tiny Wyoming as a raw prospect come into the NFL with a crap team around him and show some flashes in his rookie year, then drastically improve going into his 2nd year with some more talent surrounding him, then drastically improve again in year 3 with even more talent and continuity of system. I view all of this as a perfect storm for continued improvement from Allen. Continuity in OC, continuity in weapons (swap Brown for Sanders... probably an upgrade), continuity in OL (something Mahomes is getting almost entirely new in front of him). I see all these things and wouldn't make the trade because I believe Allen will continue to improve that much more. And even if we're talking player for player swaps, the changing of teams, teammates, coaches, culture, etc. would have an impact on both players if they were to switch teams. Mahomes and Allen are likely to be 1A and 1B in the NFL for the next decade plus... at least I believe they will be. And I think Allen in Buffalo has a very likely shot to be 1A for much of that stint.

Yes. Your opinion. I think people forget how questionable Mahomes was as a prospect coming into the NFL. And I bring this back to that Alex Smith interview where he's talking about how Andy Reid teaches QBs. We'll never know, obviously, but giving Allen a redshirt year in the NFL behind a smart, established vet QB willing to work with him and a QB whisperer as a Head Coach pretty obviously would have made Allen's first 2 years of playin vastly better than what they were in Buffalo. I've been trying to make it very clear that I think Mahomes is an amazing QB. I just believe that Allen will be better... but that doesn't mean I won't think Mahomes is great. If Mahomes and Allen are 1A and 1B in the NFL in either order, Beane and Co. were brilliant in the drafts of 2017 and 2018. Actually gotta give it to you. I remember you really pounding the table for him in the draft process and saying he was going to be a star.

Maybe. But Josh's last game wasn't as bad as Mahomes's last game.

Holy Crap... The bolded... reverse it... consider Allen's entry into Football and his first couple years vs Mahomes... that's why you don't trade Allen for Mahomes.

Before Mahomes Andy Reid made Alex Smith a pro bowler, turned Mike Vick into a legitimate passing threat, coached Kevin Kolb into the mirage of a good QB so he could stay in the NFL and get a lucrative contract, and brought Philadelphia to the NFC Championship 4 years in a row with non HOF talent on offense save for one year with T.O. We all love Daboll... now. Andy Reid is very clearly the superior play caller and QB developer. It's absolutely foolish to argue otherwise.

Did you watch the Super Bowl? His last game in the NFL was his worst game. It's possible the league is figuring out how to slow him down.

Here's what I think is really interesting: the bolded statement is exactly the argument in 2018 to not draft Josh Allen--as we've rehashed already, I was in that camp making that argument. And the 2018 season was exactly why all the Josh Allen skeptics were proven right about him--he became a Meme himself. And the 2019 season was still exactly why the skeptics were proven right--"he's inaccurate and can't even break 60% in a 'good year!" If the past is predictive, maybe it's time to use that same logic with Josh Allen, who keeps proving doubters wrong and drastically improving. It seems you and @FireChan think Allen has hit his ceiling and is about to hit a wall. Am I wrong? If past is predictive as you say it is, it's logical to say Allen will be better than Mahomes in 2021. And that's one of the reasons I believe you don't make that trade.