transplantbillsfan

The reason is because of the year Allen just had. And football is a team sport. "They beat us easily two times" really doesn't have anything to do with the individual discussion of Allen vs. Mahomes because the 2 are never on the field at the same time. Despite the misinterpretation of me trying to say Allen is Mahomes's equal earlier, let me be clear: Mahomes is better than Allen RIGHT NOW But Allen is creeping closer and closer and even though I think Mahomes is better right now, statements like "they aren't even in the same ball park!" are just not true. I do think this argument brings back the argument of whether we consider what a QB does on the ground when talking about "QB play." As a passer, Mahomes is obviously better, though they ARE in the same ballpark. You can see this in the fact that vs. common opponents (meaning both of them playing against the same defenses... probably the best way to compare them), Mahomes has a passer rating of 112 and Allen has a passer rating of 103.5. And you can tell that Mahomes is the better passer right now. He's composed and Allen still has some of that "sugar high Josh" that pops up into his passing game. But Allen is still improving and it's not out of the question that Allen could be better by the end of next season. But when you start thinking about what they were able to do on the ground in those common games--Allen rushed for 395 yards and 6 TDs and Mahomes rushed for 221 yards and 2 TDs--I think Allen creeps yet closer to Mahomes, with Mahomes still being better. I think this thread is still going because the trajectory for Allen is going up. I don't think Mahomes will get much/any better, especially once he starts losing some of his weapons (Hill & Kelce) in the next couple years. Personally, I can't wait to see what Allen can do with the actual threat of a real running game from our RBs next year... because I'm really assuming that's going to be a big focus this offseason.

Next year...

Throwing a fastball defines athleticism? Doesn't Allen also throw a 90+ mph fastball? Wasn’t he also a multi-sport athlete? And honestly, I made athleticism a pretty broad category when I should have broken it down to a bunch of categories like size, strength, speed, elusiveness, etc.

And here's the conundrum. I agree Mahomes is performing better. But let's say we swapped Allen and Mahomes and pretend Mahomes is drafted by the Bills in 2017 and Allen is drafted by the Chiefs in 2018. Who is better right now as we end the 2020 season? They're so damn close at this point that KC's talent and coaching just makes Mahomes "obviously better" right now.

This is just what Allen is. Allen had to be Superman against the Chiefs because of a combination of a great defensive game plan by the Chiefs, a banged up WR corps on the Bills, porous OL play, and poor defensive play. That game against the Chiefs proved the Chiefs were by far the better team than the Bills on that day, but I don't think it proved anything necessarily in the Allen and Mahomes argument. But for lack of a better argument: Athleticism Allen >>> Mahomes This won't ever change, barring injury. And although Mahomes is definitely athletic and elusive, I don't really think this one is arguable. Arm Strength Allen === Mahomes Obviously debatable, but the difference is negligible in either direction. This also won't ever change, barring injury Leadership Allen === Mahomes Speculative and I would generally give the edge to Allen just based on what I've seen (hugging every single offensive player after the loss to the Chiefs), but I honestly don't watch enough of Mahomes or the Chiefs to know what he does and doesn't do... maybe our resident KC fan @Zerovoltz can give us those specific insights. Competitive Drive Allen >>> Mahomes All these are speculative, but just watch Allen play. All those 20-30 yard sacks fall under this category. So do plays like the one he got injured against the Raiders, had to go out of the game briefly and came back in to keep playing through his injury. And yes, Mahomes has played through injury, too. But I don't think we've seen Mahomes face anywhere near the adversity Allen has faced in his first 3 years. Yet, Allen is now thriving through that adversity. This category and the next category I think kinda go hand in hand... Work Ethic Allen >>> Mahomes I don't think this is arguable, but obviously feel free to do so. Allen has drastically improved in every single offseason. You can just see it in his face and hear it in his voice every time he's interviewed. You read about it in his work in the offseasons with Jordan Palmer and then hear it in interviews by Palmer himself. You hear about it with pleas to Tony Romo last year during the Super Bowl on how to get better. You hear it from Daboll after Allen makes stupid mistakes and Daboll talking about how Allen won't make the same mistake again because he learns from them. Again. For me this is the adversity Allen has faced and the consistent improvement every year. Mahomes landed in almost the perfect situation with the perfect coach and a team with continuity of talent that had made the playoffs with 10+ wins the 3 years before he became the starter. I just think Allen has that Jordan quality where he hates losing exponentially more than he loves winning and he uses it to drive him. Accuracy Allen <<< Mahomes I actually think the argument to be made is that Allen is now more accurate than Mahomes, but I'm giving Mahomes the edge here, despite the fact that Allen's completion percentage was higher than Mahomes. I don't know why I'm giving Mahomes the edge (been doing it for longer? better deep ball thrower?), but at least at this moment I think it's possible that Mahomes is more accurate than Allen. Then again, this might be me trying a little too hard to be objective here because I actually think Allen has made many more of those "wow!!!" throws on the bread and butter intermediate 10-30 yard passes than Mahomes has made this year. I think those are all the individual categories you can cover with a QB. What we have left are the external components like coaching and surrounding talent. And Mahomes has the edge for those. Despite our great WR corps, KC's top 3 receiving threats of Kelce, Hill and Hardman >>>> Diggs, Brown/Davis, Beasley. And Reid/Bienamy/Spagnolo >>> (at least right now) McDermott/Daboll/Frazier. And then throw in the actual threat of a running attack from RBs on the Chiefs that Buffalo doesn't have. So... has Allen "caught up" with Mahomes? I actually think he's about there. But again maybe overcompensating I'll say he isn't quite there, yet. But the thing is, Allen is still improving. Can we say that about Mahomes?

Can you explain it for those of us who don't want to watch it? Pleeeeaaaassseeee!!!!

Nicely written Shaw. The game was disappointing, but I wasn't upset after the game ended and haven't been upset since. For me the Chiefs were just obviously better on that day. That doesn't mean they always will be or even that they were the obviously better team in say week 14 or 15. But the reality is that Buffalo's success this year went strictly through Josh Allen. Our Defense was opportunistic, but often too sieve-like. Our running game was nonexistent. Wins and Losses came on the arm and legs of Josh Allen. And going into the game against the Chiefs, our ENTIRE WR corps was injured. We found out later that Beasley fractured his fibula in Week 17. John Brown was clearly not 100% still dealing with the knee injury he was on IR for earlier in the season. Gabriel Davis had some kind of an ankle injury the week before against the Ravens that was bad enough to make him a game time decision. Diggs had an "oblique" injury, which I think was exacerbated when he was body-slammed. So our amazing WR corps--and make no mistake, they were absolutely amazing this year--is wholly injured and I honestly have no clue if that factored into the Chiefs game plan to press at the line against our WRs and play really physical, but it worked like a charm for them. When healthy, I think our WR corps would have been able to get open more consistently. Unfortunately, they were hobbled. So we were relying on Josh Allen's arm throwing to a hobbled receiving corps and his legs, which are clearly being taught out of him. Allen should have run more on some of those passing plays. Yes, I realize he gained 88 yards with his legs, but there were some openings where he should have run, but instead forced a pass or threw it away. I'm not upset this offseason because I'm 100% sure this game will serve as fuel to light the competitive fire of the likes of Allen, Diggs and co. and they're going to come back next year stronger. I'm not upset because I think we've pretty much reached the point where we should expect to be legitimate Super Bowl contenders every year. And I think we'll be back next year.

Yes I agree Milano is better now and I really do wish we could keep him. But Edmunds has 3 years of steady improvement with the team and 2 more years to keep improving. And he's soooOOOoooo young. This isn't a debate

The time hasn't come for Edmunds. The time has come for Milano. There's really no need for this debate because we have Edmunds locked down with us for 2 more years. The debate really should be whether we just let Milano walk or pay him top dollar. I'm on the side that we should let him walk because when he says "top dollar" I'm assuming he's talking Khalil Mack and Von Miller type money, and he's definitely not worth that.

The debate doesn't really matter. With news that Milano is going to seek top dollar, he's not going to be with the team next year--I really wish he would change his mind because I think he and Jerry Hughes were our 2 most consistent defensive players and biggest impact players all year--but we will exercise Edmunds's 5th year option and I think OBD will work on a long term extension for him next offseason. Edmunds actually made me more of a believer in him this year. I always thought he shied away from contact as a tackler and just wasn't very good against the run. This year he did much, much better in that category. Like Allen, Edmunds still has plenty of room to improve and has improved through each of his first 3 seasons.

I've seen clips, but here are few other the other interviews from the day, including First Take, PFT and Colin Cowherd:

I would say because Jared Goff has proven he can play at a pretty high level in the NFL. Drew Lock has not.

I don't really think KC will have a problem this coming year, but there will definitely be some tough decisions they'll have to make in the ensuing years. As long as Mahomes, Kelce and Hill are in their prime playing at a high level, you'd be foolish to let them walk. The issue might end up being Mahomes's contract in a few years. It's team friendly now, but won't be in a few years.

Hughes is someone we just absolutely should not cut. He's still playing at a very high level, even if the numbers don't show it. He was arguably our best and most consistent defensive player this year. I feel essentially the same way about Hyde, but I view him as slightly more likely to be gone simply because I really think Jaquon Johnson might be given his shot in the near future. Hughes really doesn't have any credible pass rushers behind him. Everyone else could be gone, but I don't think all of them will be.

Look, Mahomes is a fantastic player, but let's be real about this: Mahomes is Mahomes largely because of system and the talent surrounding him. And that's not a sleight on Mahomes. Josh Allen improved so much this year because it was his 3rd year in the same system and we acquired Diggs. Neither Mahomes nor Allen are "unicorns...." though I honestly think Allen might be one a little bit more purely for the combination of size and athleticism... but he has to get a few other things going better. Hell, Brady isn't one. All the people saying that "oh it was clearly Brady and not the Hoodie" are fooling themselves. Arians turned that team over to Tom to let him essentially be the coach, and Brady learned everything he knows from New England. And Brady had more talent around him than he EVER had in New England. Can we please not forget that this same system that Mahomes is playing in saw Alex Smith throw for over 4,000 yards with 26 TDs and 5 INTs with a 104.7 Passer Rating in 15 games. That was, in other words, Alex Smith's best statistical season of his career BY FAR!!! Ya know why? Alex Smith in 2017--the year before Mahomes took over--had Andy Reid as his coach and was also throwing to Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce. Smith isn't a scrub, but that was a damn good year for a guy who's been "meh" for his whole career. As long as Mahomes has Andy Reid especially along with Kelce and Hill, he'll look like one of the best 2 or 3 QBs in the league. I say 2 or 3 because I really think Allen's comin!!! That's why Mahomes is Mahomes.

Big corner opposite Tre and another pass rusher for sure. Edmunds needs to continue to develop. He played so well in the 2nd half of the season that I finally thought the light clicked on, but he was utterly horrible against KC. Then again, so was Tre. I don't know the answer, but the positions I think we need to concentrate on in the offseason are RB, TE, OL and CB. Resign Milano. Cut Morse and Brown to save the $13 million and with a guy we never even saw this year cut in EJ Gaines we save $14 million off the Cap with the ability to use that towards resigning our own without missing much. I honestly think getting Star back next year will be a huge help to the D, assuming he's motivated.

So I think this might answer some of the question of "what we do" in the offseason to catch up to KC: https://theathletic.com/2354616/2021/01/29/buffalo-bills-kansas-city-chiefs-all-22?source=user-shared-article Though, Feliciano wasn’t the only member of the offensive line at fault. Center Mitch Morse and left guard Ike Boettger also struggled with pass protection and in providing enough of a push to establish the running game. The last part of their struggles is the most important both to the undoing of the matchup and moving forward. The Bills weren’t able to run the ball with their preferred power scheme consistently at all during the season. Without that trio winning their matchup against a lighter defensive set, it clogged up the rushing lanes. It prevented either Devin Singletary or T.J. Yeldon from taking pressure off Josh Allen, which then allowed the Chiefs to get creative with their blitz calls, knowing that the Bills were more than likely to pass on every down. It wasn’t only Feliciano, Morse and Boettger’s fault that the running game didn’t work even when they attempted, but that’s where the conversation begins moving forward. The Chiefs have excellent defensive players like Jones, safety Tyrann Mathieu and safety Juan Thornhill that helped execute the strategy, but this is the next defensive formation Allen and the Bills have to prove they can beat as an offense. Allen cannot do it alone when defenses utilize that strategy, which means when teams are daring the Bills to run, they have to prove they can do so. If successful, it makes the defense want to adjust by putting a second linebacker in the game, which then helps open up space for the passing game. It doesn’t mean the Bills have to become a balanced or run-heavy team. They should still have their offense work through Allen because he is their most straightforward path to victory. However, they also need a complementary running game moving forward when necessary, and that starts with the blocking up front. We could see some massive changes on the offensive line, with at least two new starters starting five against the Chiefs. Dion Dawkins is rightfully a lock at left tackle, but that’s the only sure thing. The Bills run a power run scheme, have signed, drafted and developed offensive linemen (Feliciano, Cody Ford, Ty Nsekhe) and a running back (Zack Moss) with that in mind, and have a starting center in Morse better suited for a more athletic scheme. If the Bills continue along with the power scheme, the nonperfect fit, Morse’s concussion history and the potential cap savings to keep a more scheme-friendly player could be enough for the Bills to move on this offseason. Ford is likely to be a starter, the Bills could re-sign Feliciano or right tackle Daryl Williams with the Morse savings (~$5 million) as a significant chunk. That would then leave them with two more starting spots to fill — whether it be with Boettger, Ryan Bates, draft picks or a free agent. Regardless of the course, the offensive line is one of the most significant offseason pieces to track to help the running game. Combined with: Starter John Brown, who played more snaps than any other receiver on the roster, gave the Bills little to nothing in his separation skills against man-to-man coverage. In fairness, Brown had gone on injured reserve during the season to deal with a high ankle sprain, but he has been back for over a month to this point. His releases were slow without any explosiveness, they invited the cornerbacks to get physical with him and Brown lacks the strength to work through the contact. It led to far too many of his routes being covered up and pressured Diggs and Cole Beasley to pick up the slack. ... With Brown’s disappointing season, a sudden decline in his abilities, the in-house replacement in Gabriel Davis and the substantial cap savings (~$8 million), Brown may have played his last game with the Bills. So cutting just Brown and Morse next year alone saves us $13million off the Cap, which we can use this offseason to resign players we should resign like Feliciano OR Williams along with Milano (good snippet in this article about how Milano basically made Edmunds look LESS bad against KC than he really was) and the inevitable large extension of Josh. Mitch Morse and John Brown were good players for us while we had them, but I don't think either have enough good years left in the tank to compensate for that $13 million we'd save cutting them.

Awesomeness!

I swear it was a recent game. I think it was against the Ravens because I think it was Collinsworth. I remember him saying how Allen said playing at the lighter weight felt good and then Collinsworth said something about how it probably wouldn't help him as much when he gets hit by a LB. Seriously did anyone else hear that? Maybe it's just the voices in my head. And FTR, I didn't think Allen looked lighter this year.

I thought I remember one of the late season primetime broadcasters saying that Allen had lost a bunch of weight and was playing at about 220 this season. Anyone else hear that?

In the offseason I think Allen needs to do 2 things primarily, along with continuing to hammer home the mechanics he improved so much last offseason: 1) Get into one of those "virtual throwing rooms" I've heard about where they simulate plays with defenses (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those existed) and just keep on practicing pre and post snap reads 2) His deep ball. I don't know that I want him throwing it so much the way Russell Wilson does because I think those wildly lofted balls can get Allen into trouble in the Buffalo winds, but his "Go-route" pass definitely needs work. The funny thing is his "intermediate" passes are fantastic and a lot of those passes for any other QB would be considered deep balls. It's amazing the guy can just throw an Out to the sideline to a WR 30 yards down the field with little to no effort.

All things equal, Roberts is the better option as kick returner. But like I said, that's all he does. He's of absolutely no use on the offense, unlike McKenzie. Plus he's more expensive. Even if it's a slight step down from Roberts as a returner, McKenzie might be the better option. And maybe he'll just take more touchbacks than Roberts, who ran the ball out of the End Zone a lot more often than I would have liked.

I think you overestimate what schools would be like "if only teachers were willing." I teach at a relatively large High School of about 2,000 students. All parents and students have an "opt-out" policy of in person learning. That means that any student must be allowed to learn fully virtually from home. I don't know if you disapprove of allowing this concession, but during a Pandemic, I think most would agree it's reasonable. There are about 800 students who are 100% virtual at our school right now. And I live in the least affected state in our country as far as the Pandemic is concerned. Parents in our country don't want to send their kids back to school during a Pandemic if they don't have to... and over the last year that term "have to" has been malleable in our country. Pinning all or most of this on teachers is farcical and "getting students back into the classroom" isn't remotely what you think it is.

I think Beane and McDermott are going to view both of these guys as sort of "FA Additions" this offseason. Beane drafted Ford and I'm sure that Ford will have a job to lose in the starting OL lineup. And we all saw what we were missing without Star, who I think we underrated with the team when we had him. I hope both guys come back hungry and motivated. Obviously the fact that Star sat the season out makes you wonder that a little more with him.

On offense, I'd say keep McKenzie and Daryl Williams and possibly Taiwan Jones because I know he's really valuable on Special Teams even though we don't all see it. Let everyone else walk unless you get them on the cheap, which I realize we'll be able to do with a few of them. I definitely don't want to re-sign Roberts, though. Not saying he wasn't good at what he did, just that he only did one thing and McKenzie could do that along with other things. On defense, I really do want to find a way to keep Milano. No we shouldn't pay him an insane amount of money, but I think it's possible to make both parties happy here. Beane and McDermott keep talking about keeping their own homegrown talent. Milano is 100% one of those guys. Same goes for Wallace, who we'll be able to keep anyway. Let everyone else go. I like Dane Jackson as a CB better than Josh Norman and Daryl Johnson better than Trent Murphy, anyway.