BullBuchanan

The alternative is retirement. Again,for a 5th round pick, easy gamble. They don't need him to be the guy. If he is and they got him for a 5th? Great! If Sanders sits and does nothing for 4 years in Cleveland, he'll probably have to sign a 1 year $2M deal with some dumpster fire of a team to try to prove himself in his age 27 season. He has absolutely zero leverage left in his career until he proves he's better than the 3rd string QB he is right now.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. It sounds like you're making the argument that his skill wasn't worth the draft pick a team would have to use on him concerning his character. if so, I think that's the consensus among NFL folks. However, I think it also came out that as a player he's not nearly as strong a prospect as others in the draft, so there are also real football concerns. Regardless, It's hard to understand how a 5th round pick could possibly be a meaningful distraction to your football team. He's not going to be getting interviews when he's inactive on game days, and veteran leaders int he lockeroom won't be pushing for him to get starting reps unless he comes out and tears it up. In which case, win for the Browns.

Why do they care how he feels about it? They have a 5th round pick invested in him. They could cut him out of camp and it wouldn't be a big deal. They had a higher grade on Gabriel, so you'd have to assume he's higher on the depth chart right now anyway. He's a rookie - any "noise" he makes would be completely shut down and/or ignored by the vets. This isn't a situation where you brought in competition for a middling vet. The most ikley outcome is Watson to IR, Flacco Starts the year, Gabriel is first man in, and Sanders only sees the field if Gabriel struggles. People are acting like they drafted Sanders in the 2nd or even 3rd. There's absolutely no downside to taking him where they did. His ego is now completely shattered. These trades don't happen much anymore because teams draft QBs that should go in the 4th round in the 1st round these days. The Market is so skewed to QBs that teams will do anything to try to get one, even when they're guys like Kenny Pickett. From the 2020 draft there are 0 QBs on active rosters drafted int he 4th round or later. That's crazy. It's possible that there may be no QBs from the 2021 draft after the 1st round still active int he NFL next year, as rookie contracts expire this year. What his brother said about their Dad representing them probably says a lot.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Follow the old packers model of having a premier backup waiting in the wings on a rookie deal. I think a place like Buffalo owuld have been perfect for Sanders. All the hype could die down, he'd get to learn under an elite offense and just get his reps in. If Allen were to ever be injured for an extended period of time, I'd feel much better about a young player with potential salvaging our season, than a guy like Mitch Trubisky or Mike White. Those guys are ideal for a game or less. At a 5th round pick, you'd be risking very little, and if he showed up in pre-season, you could turn that into a high pick down the road, ala Rob Johnson, Matt Shaub, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.

I'd need two of Hairston, Sanders, and Jackson to play like DROY candidates and Bosa to have a career year to get me there. I like just about every change we've made, but we still don't have enough talent to overcome the teams above us, and some of those behind may catch up. I'll be on board in 2026 if we have another draft like this and we bring in key FAs to elevate the team.

What would make you think he's the starter? He has one year of starting experience in 4 seasons, and it was 3 seasons ago. He's a fringe NFL player. If there's a longshot to make the safety squad it has to be him. Hamlin has his limitations, but he's been a FAR more productive play in his career. Hamlin is at worst a #3 safety on most NFL teams. He's without a doubt an NFL talent.

Even if he does play, how excited does that get you? What problem does he fix about our group as a whole? What's a best case scenario?

Our 6th receiver competition is what was keeping you up at night about the WR room?

Cleveland is giving themselves as many kicks at the QB can as they can. I can't fault them for doing it as they clearly understand that without an answer, they are finished before they start. Every team that doesn't have certainty at the position should do the same thing.

I would see it like this: Pre-Suspensions Epenesa - Jones - Oliver - Rousseau - Early downs, high run probability, everyone fresh. Bosa - Sanders - Oliver - Rousseau - Obvious passing downs/gotta have it stops. Jackson is the 4th DE in, if Walker is ready to go and beats out Carter, he'll rotate in as the 4th DT, but I wouldn't expect to see a lot of him if everyone is healthy. Once the suspensions end, a lot will come down to the performance of Jones. If he has struggled at all, expect Ogunjobi to get a real shot at his playing time crack at his playing time. If that were to happen, jones could be bumped back to a reserve role where he plays primarily on short yardage run downs where they could load up on big men. I expect Jackson to become a reserve at this point with Hoecht's return, unless his play demands that he leap Epenesa. Something like: Hoecht - Jones - Ogunjobi - Rousseau and a 5th big man like Sanders/Walker could find their way in there. I will expect Hoecht to play a significant role in the defense lining up at basically every position and doing so often. I wouldn't be shocked to see him as the first guy in at most spots except for Bosa on passing downs. Even though Bosa has been a capable run defender, If their smart, they won't waste him on that when they have younger healthier players that can do it. So basically when everyone is healthy and back from suspension your group looks like Epenesa - Ogunjobi- Oliver - Rousseau - Early downs, high run probability Bosa - Hoecht/Sanders- Oliver/Hoecht - Rousseau - Obvious passing downs/gotta have it stops. I imagine it'll be hard for Jackson or Walker to get a ton of playing time unless we move on from Epenesa/Jones or someone gets hurt. I wouldn't be surprised to see two of Walker, Jones, Ogunjobi inactive on gameday depending on performance because of the flexibility Hoecht gives. In case you haven't figured it out by now, i think the key to the whole defense is Hoecht. He gives us something we've only had very poor versions of over the years, and if he's just getting to his best ball now, it could be the piece that transforms the way our defense works.

It's obvious, and not particularly close: Safety. Not sure how any other position is even in discussion. Punter would be a distant #2, but it's a lot less important.

Epenesa has been great with his limited reps. The guy's a lock for 6+ sacks a year. I expect him to effectively start over Bosa, as they try to keep Bosa fresh. Solomon on the other hand has shown nothing and they have no investment in him. I can't see a scenario where everyone else is healthy and he makes the team. Similarly, Carter has to be no better than #5 on the DT depth chart right now. Only way I see him on the team is if they shut Walker down for the year trying to get him to peak form for 2026. Cutting Jones would seem to be a big mistake after finally getting depth at the position unless he's washed. Even if he isn't the guy he was, and say he plays 30% of the snaps, that's still a valuable role.

Of course. Football is the greatest game ever invented and it shouldn't be denied to any healthy kid that wants to play.

I expect them to keep every player through camp and into the season. When the suspensions end, Solomon and Logue get cut and sent to PS. Carter and Walker inactive on game days after the suspensions.

But why would he need to do that yet again? We've already taken a 1st round pass catching TE, a 2nd round WR, and his previous 5th round WR has turned into a legitimate #2 WR. He also signed a guy who he believes has #2/#3 upside in Palmer. I'm flabbergasted how anyone can think he hasn't addressed the position when he's invested in it heavily. What exactly do you want? I would have loved DK metcalf, but paying him $30M a year likely means our DL is trash again this year instead of stacked. Someone like Pickens would not have been a meaningful upgrade. He's a name everyone knows, but he's fairly mediocre and a headcase, which is why they invested so much in Metcalf.

I really like the player, but that's an outrageous amount of money.

You're upset we didn't take two more 4th round WRs? If you aren't happy with one Shakir, would you be happy with 3 of them? That's of course taking into account that by not getting Kincaid, you'd now have a big hole to fill at TE and you'd have a worse receiving weapon there. FWIW, Shakir is also the best performing WR in his class drafted after Pickens in the 2nd round. Are you praising Beane if he drafts Erik Ezukanma and Montrell Washington?

Insane take.

Why are questions being asked about day 3. Last I checked Kaden Prather was drafted on day 3 and he's a WR. Everyone should be happy with that, no?

He was responsible for 27 first downs on 59 touches. He was MASSIVELY important. There are games he outright won for us.

Yes. I would rather have cheaper younger players with upside at our depth positions than more expensive veterans who have proven they can't play.

The things you're "assuming" on Beane's behalf, I don't think he's assuming. He added what he feels is a legitimate talent in Palmer. You can disagree with that if you want, but he should easily match or exceed Mack Hollins offensive production for us, at the absolute worst. There's plenty of reason to feel that both Kincaid and Coleman should be significantly better as well, as Kincaid was better his rookie season, both he and Coleman battled significant injuries in 2024 and Coleman will not be a rookie any longer. What you, and WGR seemed to miss about what Beane was saying is that you can have a really productive WR room without having a #1 guy, and he's absolutely right. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a heavy analytics based approach to WR where they figure having 3 guys at a Shakir-tier would be preferable to having one high end #1 and a bunch of scrubs. Personally, I think the value of having the #1 guy is when you need 1 play. The lesser guys may perform just as well in aggregate, but when you need one play do you have a Larry Fitgerald, D-Hop, Andre Johnson, Antonio Brown, TO, Moss, etc that you just decide pre-snap he's getting the ball and you know he'll catch it in double coverage? There's value in that. Of course, as Beane said, there's massive opportunity cost in that too. They've decided it's better to invest in big men and recycle/ find value at skill positions, because ultimately your QB will elevate those positions anyway. I think it's harder to win that way because you need a complete roster, but I don't disagree with it as a premise.

Do they play the Super Bowl in September? Let him hold out, it'll give Davis valuable reps in games they'll win anyway. We don't need Cook until January.

I was high on Elijah Moore years ago, but at this point he's not offering the kind of "help" people are clamoring for. He'd be a 5th WR at best, or more likely a camp body.

They did call him out and they lost the argument. They had no reasonable reponse to Beane's rebuttal that they had the number #1 scoring offense in the league with the room he built. I happen to think there is one, but they sure didn't have it. What's yours?