Logic

Is adding like 47 bottom-of-the-barrel WRs in free agency the same as adding one or two good ones? Asking for a friend...

1.) I don't actually think you're wrong. I said multiple times on draft night and in the days to follow that I disliked the Coleman pick, and he was the receiver I LEAST wanted at that spot, and listed the reasons why. 2.) My response to your thread yesterday was more based on what I viewed to be a exaggeration and hyperbole on your part -- the statement "I don't see why anyone sees anything in him at all". One can dislike a prospect without needing to go over the top and suggest that he has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. 3.) Stalking you? I can't go into any Coleman thread the past couple days without seeing a re-post of that All Targets video from you. Even this silly, throwaway, "isn't he funny" thread, you somehow found a way to shoehorn in your killjoy narrative. 4.) "I'm very happy for you that you'd be perfectly content with some underachieving clown out there if that we're to be the case. Waaay too much is being made of this. It's like a bunch of drunk girls trying to convince themselves that some hot looking guy with the personality of a turnip is right for them." Like...what even IS that sentiment? It's not that serious, man. It's just football. It's entertainment. Bills fans are entertained by some jokes their new rookie made? Oh nooooo. WAY TOO MUCH IS BEING MADE OF THIS!!! I mustn't allow people to have a laugh! Grrrr. Have they SEEN his game against Duke?!?! You do you, man. If you wanna try to derail a thread about funny jokes and silliness with some game tape, Godspeed. I'm sure there's a few other threads you haven't posted that video in, too. Get to it!

Thanks. I always love the "comments from league execs and coaches" articles. They're awesome. Unfortunately, the comments about Coleman and Worthy match my own feelings. And the statement "there is now a big difference in the amount of speed around Mahomes and the amount of speed around Josh Allen". Yep. Not great, Bob.

Dude. This is a thread about how funny and likable Keon Coleman is as a human being. You're already pushing the "his 'all targets' video is terrible and he's irredeemably bad!" thing in another thread or two. Can't you just let people like this guy on a personal level, laugh at his jokes, and feel a little joy? Sheesh. Read the room.

If I even dare to suggest that Matt Milano may be in danger of starting the season on PUP, I'll be pilloried. So I won't dare to suggest it... ...but... This is certainly an interesting signing for a team that already boasted Milano, Bernard, Williams, Spector, Ulofoshio, Morrow. I see Milano, Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, and Morrow as the likely 5 LBs they keep (they kept 5 last year). If Milano were to start the season on PUP (which I don't even dare to suggest is a possibility), then it could come down to a battle between Spector and Jones for the 5th and final spot.

To your point, Alpha (even though I'm more on the Gunner side of things in this particular discussion).... Here's Justin Jefferson's pre-draft scouting report. You'll notice a couple key differences, but also a lot of similar language as is used about Keon. Granted, Jefferson also posted a 1500 yard, 18 TD season as a Jr, so that's a pretty big asterisk. Nevertheless, looking solely at the scouting report itself and the traits themselves: Overview A quarterback's best friend, with the contested-catch focus and extreme ball skills to boost completion percentages. Jefferson failed to stand out as an outside target but saw his stock soar with a monster season from the slot. He has decent speed and separation talent, but he needs to improve as a route-runner, as he's less likely to see the same freedom in space that LSU's offense helped create for him. He's slippery in space and able to stab and save throws with quick hands and fluid body adjustments. Teams looking for an inside/outside possession receiver with the size and savvy to make chain-moving catches could push Jefferson up the board. Strengths Good initial burst off the snap. Slippery working around traffic and redirection in space. Jab step gives separation from route stem more life. Naturally instinctive pass-catcher. Adjusts speeds to track throws and shield coverage. Makes twisting, twirling mid-air adjustments look easy. Ridiculous catch radius to help a quarterback out. Sharpened catch focus in 2019. Quick hands to stab anticipation throws coming out of breaks. Leaping and length carry him to the high point. Reliable from slot at making "gotta have it" catches to extend drives. Willing to do his part and give effort as slot blocker. Weaknesses Spread scheme threw field wide open for him. Needs more attention to detail with his routes. Too complacent to beat coverage with athletic ability. Unable to run away and separate from tight man. Size and strength across from him impede production. Will take time adjusting to press looks as a pro. Limited one-on-one prowess to win 50/50 throws. Separation talent just average outside.

I am on record in multiple threads about being unexcited about this pick. He was not who I wanted the Bills to take, and I've listed all the reasons why. When they announced his name, I was actively disappointed. With that said, while I appreciate the conclusion you came to after watching his "All Targets" video, I feel like you're being a bit unfair and unreasonable. Coleman was a consensus top 40 player in this draft. There was barely an outlet anywhere that didn't list him as such. We saw Bill Belichick's draft board on the McAfee pre-draft show, and it had Coleman as a top 40 player. We know for sure the Bills had him there. Rumors are that the Patriots wanted to draft him as well, and in any case, he likely would've never fallen past pick 40 at the very latest. My point is that your comments about "wondering why anyone sees anything in him at all" indicate to me that you might be out of your depth. That is to say, there must be a REASON so many different pro scouts and analysts saw enough potential in Coleman to grade him as a second round prospect. The fact that you fail to see what that reasons might be suggests that maybe you're not sure what to be looking for. Now don't get me wrong -- the pros get it wrong sometimes, too, and busts and bad players are routinely drafted high. But Beane has a reasonably good draft track record (I said reasonably good, not elite) and an army of scouts that do this for a living, and they saw fit to draft Coleman with the 33rd pick. Surely there must be SOME reason. Surely there must be SOME redeeming qualities. While I still don't like pick, I can at least admit that he has positive and moldable qualities. Your analysis makes it sound like he's a 5th to 7th round prospect -- if not outright undraftable -- and that just strikes me as overkill. I can't help but wonder what your conclusion would've been about Josh Allen if you had watched an "all throws" video from his final college season.

I really WANT to like Hamler and be excited about him. He was a 2nd round pick, and he posted 900 yards and 8 touchdowns as a freshman at Penn State. He's got great speed and quicks. The issue is that he just CANNOT stay healthy. He's about as snake-bitten health wise as any player I've ever seen in the NFL. I don't have the laundry list of injuries here in front of me, but it's not pretty. There's a reason that the team that drafted him finally said "enough is enough". After a slightly promising rookie year, he played just 10 games across the next two years combined, during which he posted just 12 total receptions. Then last season it was discovered that he has pericarditis. So he has a chronic condition AND an injury history. I'd love him to be past his injury woes as much as the next guy, but to expect him to suddenly break out and be any kind of consistently healthy and consistently productive receiving threat four years after he left college seems ill advised. I'll consider him to be in the same boat as Andy Isabella until further notice: A fast guy to compete in training camp, but the odds of him making the 53-man roster and producing seem very low. Wishful thinking and "potential" only, as far as I can see. As BADOL pointed out recently (God, what has my Bills fandom come to when I'm quoting BADOL?!), we don't have a receiver on our roster who has ever posted a 1,000 yard receiving season. People feel like Samuel has the potential to do it, but even in his best season under our current OC, he didn't crack 875. People feel like Coleman has the potential to do it, but he's a 20 year old rookie. People feel like Shakir will take a big step forward and year three and may be able to do it, but he has yet to prove that he actually can. If everyone's most optimistic outlook for our WR corps comes to pass, then the "underrated WRs" take will be true. But how often does the entirety of the most optimistic outlook come to fruition? Hope is not a strategy, unless you're the 2024 Buffalo Bills offense, apparently.

Thanks, Shaw. I DO think, as you say in your last paragraph, that he has a good chance to succeed. And maybe I should have more faith in the coaches to help ensure that he does. I think what I fear is that -- given his young age and how raw he is, generally speaking -- that it might take him a while to succeed. That he might be a premiere receiver in this league by year three, but the Bills very much need him in year one. Now, if the Bills had made moves to NOT need him so much in year one, then it would be a different story. But they didn't. If Coleman isn't being counted on to be a big factor until, say, week 6, then it currently means that Mack Hollins or Justin Shorter or Tyrell Shavers is being counted on during that time instead, and you'll have to forgive me for being not at all confident in that being a good thing. I already mentioned strongly hoping that Beane keeps adding to the WR room, and you mentioned that you think he's likely not done adding there. I really hope this is the case. Right now, for the Bills to succeed optimally on offense, they're going to NEED Coleman to hit the ground running. If they put themselves in less of a position to NEED that by adding a capable veteran, I'll feel a lot better about things.

This is where I've come to on Coleman as well. After my initial disappointment and teeth gnashing subsided and I allowed myself to become excited about what he seems to do WELL rather than what he DOESN'T do well, I've slowly accepted that he has the upside and skillset to potentially become a very good NFL receiver.....eventually. The issue, as you point out, is that they need him NOW, and Beane said as much recently. Where I think Coleman would have the best chance to succeed is if he had been added to a WR depth chart that didn't need him to produce right away. That could use him situationally and scheme him up and bring him along slowly. I also think his best chance at success is to be a move player, a big slot, and to line up off the line of scrimmage more often than not. Instead, he will seemingly have neither of those two luxuries. He joined a team that's gonna depend on him right away, and he joined a team that seems dead set on using him as a traditional X receiver. My worry about Coleman has thus shifted. I'm not as worried about him purely as a prospect -- clearly he's talented. Instead, I'm worried that his early workload and the way the Bills seem to want to use him will not be setting him up for success. I really, REALLY hope they add a WR of significance after June 1st, be it via trade or free agency. Even someone who is only serviceable (like the current version of Odell Beckham) would take some pressure off of Coleman and would be able to provide some on-field mentorship. As things stand now, I feel like there is a clear path to success for Keon Coleman, and that the Bills do not currently seem to be headed down that path.

KJ Hamler is the new blue medical tent threat.

Yo. Good call homie.

Welp, this thread being brought back to life proves for the 6,427th time: I'm an idiot. Not only was the draft community not too LOW on Troy Franklin, they were actually MUCH too high on him. I'm fairly certain no one here listens much to what I say as it is anyway, but...I'd recommend you go elsewhere for your lottery numbers.

"I don't want my bowl all flooded!" 😅 I'll say this about Keon Coleman: Dude is objectively hilarious. He's a character. Someone on Twitter said Coleman should be Mic'd up all season long, and I agree. The huddles with him and Josh Allen and Dawkins are gonna be goddamned hilarious. I'm rooting for him. Smart, hard working, high character, football junkie...and most of all, brimming with personality and a great sense of humor. We had a deficit in that department with the loss of Tre White, so I'm glad we brought another joker on board.

Thanks. The only thing with that is... Is he a head case? Did thing get bad with the Saints in part because he himself is difficult on some way? I genuinely don't know the answer, I'm just asking because it seems like the Bills are very purposefully trying to reset their locker room a little bit. They avoided any kind of problem children in free agency or the draft and went heavy on the "leaders and choir boys". After the Diggs situation the past couple years, I wonder if they'd want to be adding anyone who has even a whiff of being difficult or acting like a prima donna at all.

I see lots of "Bills won't miss a beat, they're still championship contenders" type responses, and while I am optimistic that they'll have a good season, I think people may underestimate the sum total of what the Bills lost this offseason. Hyde and Poyer, while long in the tooth and having lost some speed, made this defense go. Their leadership, their ability to basically be coaches on the field, their thorough knowledge of the scheme, their interchangability. It all allowed McDermott so disguise his coverages and to vary his playcalling in a way that we probably shouldn't expect him to be able to do if, say, Taylor Rapp and Mike Edwards or Cole Bishop start. Mitch Morse was a huge leader on offense, helped shift the line and set protection calls, and played the second most important position on the line. They will now be counting on a guy who hasn't played center since college to take over. Stefon Diggs obviously became invisible for the second half of last season, but the respect he commanded from opposing defenses allowed the Bills to see lots of looks that they won't be seeing this year, with no one currently in house to command the type of defensive respect Diggs did. Leonard Floyd was the Bills' most productive edge rusher last season, and he's gone. Aside from those losses, the Bills will also be counting on a 20 year old rookie to play huge minutes on offense. I think the losses in leadership, experience, and scheme knowledge, and the loss of a bona fide WR1 that defenses had to gameplan, all mean that the Bills will absolutely -- if only temporarily -- take a step back this coming season. I ultimately expect them to win 10 games and claim a wild card spot at worst, so I'm not saying the sky is falling. But to think they just won't miss a beat, or that their odds to win a Lombardi this year are as good as they've in recent years, I don't think is realistic thinking. I think 2025 and onward look more like championship caliber seasons, potentially. I think this is year one of a little reset/retooling of the team, and while it should set them up for another run in years to come, I don't think 2024 is likely to be the one in which the Bills win a title.

Has anyone checked on the OP? His post stopped midway through. Respectfully, I think Michael Thomas is alllll the way cooked. I read an article last year about how the Saints were just doing absolutely everything to help him return to form. They were patient with him, they had him on a very specific and detailed recovery regimen, gave him opportunity after opportunity, etc...and he just...can't move any more. He can't play. He hasn't posted more than 500 yards receiving since 2019. I know he was dynamic in his heyday, and I know the "name" of Michael Thomas is appealing. But...the actual player that's attached to that name is all the way done, I think. I won't be surprised if he never plays another down in the NFL.

Yeah. I think one of Dorsey's weaknesses was that his offense was reactive instead of attacking. Instead of saying "this is what we're gonna do, and we're gonna put you in a bind", I think his offense was predicated on the idea of "we always have an answer for what you show defensively". It was focused on always having the "right" answer to whatever the defense presented. They'd start really slow until they saw what the opposing defense was gonna be doing, then they'd build the "right" gameplan based on that. At least that's how it seemed to me. At some point during Dorsey's second season, one or more of the players (I wanna say Josh, but I can't remember for sure) said something like "we need to get back to dictating to defenses and not worry so much about what they're doing, but instead say 'here's what WE'RE doing' and make them stop us". Something like that. And that makes a lot of sense. My hope is that Brady installs a heavily matchup-based offense that attacks defenses, rather than waiting for them to attack first. That he moves his diverse group of skill players all around the formation and gives defensive coordinators headaches. That the Bills offense gets back to thinking a bit less, and instead just having fun out there and attacking.

I think Thomas and Jones are beyond cooked. I doubt either of them are at all superior to Shavers or Shorter at this point. My money might be on OBJ given their prior interest and his ability to be a mentor of sorts to Coleman. I wouldn't rule out a Zay Jones or Hunter Renfrow, though.

Of course I hope you're right, but Beane just the other day said that the money that's gonna open up post June 1st will mostly be needed for signing draft picks, in-season replacement costs, etc, and tried his very hardest to throw cold water on the notion of any kind of big time WR move. Now...talk is cheap, and we'll see if his actions back it up. Personally, I'm expecting nothing more than the signing of an OBJ or Tyler Boyd type at BEST.

That is AWESOME! Wow. But I'm fairly sure if I buy it and put it into my house, my wife will divorce me, and then "doing myself favors" will be the only human contact I get.

Basic misuse or misunderstanding of phrases is the one that always gets me. For all intensive purposes. Saying "in lieu of" instead of "in light of". I once knew someone who thought prima donna was "pre-madonna". But saying "I seen" instead of "I saw" is the one that seems most common and which might bother me the most.

Frogger Pac-Man Area 51 The Simpsons Arcade Game

I think the "Josh doesn't work hard in the offseason"/"Josh only golfs and travels" nonsense is some of the silliest stuff I've ever seen. I'm sure all the people who level that criticism at him spend 24 hours a day at THEIR jobs and have no personal life 🙄