Logic

I don't disagree with your take on Jason Peters overall. HOWEVER...my list was based on what those players did AS a Buffalo Bill, and did not factor in what came after. Jason Peters did have two 2nd team All-Pros as a Bill, so I suppose you'd have an argument there, but...the vast majority of his HOF career came post-Buffalo. It's the same reason Marshawn Lynch and LeSean McCoy and James Lofton aren't on my list. Fina started 131 games across 10 years as a Buffalo Bill. Ryan Bates started 19. Cordy Glenn started 78. I take your point, but I think it's a bit of an exaggeration. As for Peters, I agree about him as a player, but again, these lists are based on what these players did as Buffalo Bills, and does not factor in anything that happened in another team's jersey. Still, Peters does have a reasonable argument, even though he was only a Bill for five years.

Absolutely. The thing that got me into the NFL as a kid was when the NFL Network would run marathons of the old NFL Films "Team Yearbooks" and "America's Greatest Games". The sound of Fascenda's voice, the dramatic music, the slow motion...I fell in love. Probably the most famous and well known example, but this absolutely cast a spell on me as a kid: As far as trying to educate myself about the game of football...I do my best. I'm somewhat of a completist, and I love knowing everything there is to know about the past, present, and future of the game. You show me a "Top 10" or "Top 100" list or historical football documentary of any kind and I'm devouring it. We also live in era where we are incredibly blessed by the wealth of old game footage and information available at the click of a mouse. Full games, player highlight packages, old broadcasts complete with the commercials, everything. One's ability to consume classic NFL is limited only by their appetite for it and their amount of free time. In recent years, the three books I enjoyed the most and found the most informative in terms of educating me about the history of professional football are listed below. I highly recommend all three! I like to read them during football season, on the commercial breaks during games, because I otherwise I pace nervously.

That must mean it's almost football season. Just 8 Sundays from now, there will be a slight chill in the air, the leaves will just be starting to turn colors ever so slightly, and I will wake up, pour a hot cup of coffee, set my fantasy lineups, and settle onto the sofa for 9 uninterrupted hours of NFL football. There is nothing better than NFL Kickoff Sunday.

It's always nice when you don't have to worry about a guy's work ethic and will to be great. Keon is incredibly easy to root for. He seems uncommonly humble, grounded, and genuine, and his sense of humor is already starting to be nationally recognized. Add what seems to be a genuine desire to do everything he can to be great and a top notch set of physical traits, and it equals a guy that I'm incredibly eager to see step foot on the field, and to quiet any doubts I have about him.

In truth, I'm too young to have watched guys like Saimes, Joe D, and Billy Shaw. I love digging into the history of Bills greats via books, Youtube clips, game highlights, etc, and I try to educate myself on the history of the franchise and its greatest players to the best of my abilities. But surely those who are old enough to have actually watched the Bills from their inception onward might have different and/or more well informed opinions. I based a lot of my list on professional accolades (All-Pros and Pro Bowls), Hall of Fame and Wall of Fame enshrinements, and career statistics accrued as Buffalo Bills. It explains how a guy like Conlan made my list over a guy like Milano or Cowart. If I was to base my list purely on the eye test and on guys I actually saw play in my lifetime, it would look quite different.

Fletcher/Cowart/Milano combined (as Buffalo Bills): one 1st team All-Pro, one 2nd team All Pro, two Pro Bowls Conlan: DROY, three 2nd team All Pros, three Pro Bowls. If Fletcher had played the rest of his career in Buffalo, I'd agree he should make the list. His best statistical years and accolades came as a Redskin.

It's always hard with these lists, because anyone you'd knock off the list to add someone new is also a worthwhile candidate. Brown, Shaw, and Joe D are all locks IMO. So it comes down to McKenzie vs Ritcher. McKenzie played 11 seasons and was a one time All-Pro. Ritcher played 14 seasons and was a two time Pro Bowler. Both guys seem worthy of inclusion. Close your eyes and throw a dart.

Maybe if you list OLB and ILB separately. I listed them together, though, and I'm not sure who you'd realistically take off my list to include Milano.

I'm bored at work and absolutely refuse to get started on my Excel spreadsheets, so I decided to play the "Bills positional Mt Rushmore" game using the criteria cited. No one asked for this, but here it is anyway. Sorry, employer. QB Josh Allen Jim Kelly Jack Kemp Joe Ferguson RB Thurman Thomas OJ Simpson Joe Cribbs Fred Jackson FB Cookie Gilchrist Sam Gash Larry Centers Jim Braxton WR Andre Reed Eric Moulds Elbert Dubenion Stefon Diggs TE Ernie Warlick Pete Metzelaars Keith McKellar Paul Costa OT House Ballard Will Wolford John Fina Dion Dawkins OG Joe DeLamielleure Billy Shaw Ruben Brown Jim Ritcher C Kent Hull Al Bemiller Mitch Morse Eric Wood DE Bruce Smith Aaron Schobel Mario Williams Phil Hansen DT Tom Sestak Kyle Williams Fred Smerlas Mike Kadish LB Darryl Talley Cornelius Bennett Mike Stratton Shane Conlan CB Butch Byrd Booker Edgerson Nate Odomes Nate Clements S George Saimes Micah Hyde Jordan Poyer Tony Greene

What's the difference between Keon Coleman in an interview setting and Keon Coleman running a route? In the interview setting, he really knows how to separate himself from his peers.

Kaiir Elam. One of Ja'Marcus Ingram, Ta'Cory Couch, or Keni-H Lovely (how are these real names?) could outplay him. Or, more likely, a cut from another team takes his roster spot. I'm hoping this doesn't happen. Elam showing he was worth his 1st round price tag would be HUGE for this team. Absolutely enormous. But you said "surprise cut", so...

Ok so its not exactly beer, its wine, but... Just got back from Barcelona, and was delighted to stumble upon a locals dive bar featuring a Parron. I thought it was fun and silly, and wound up going back multiple nights in a row on the way to Tapas to give it another go. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-people-drink-wine-in-barcelona-2016-5 "When the weather gets warmer and it's time to party in Spain, bust out the porrón and start drinking! A porrón is a Catalan wine pitcher with a narrow spout on the end used to pour wine into your mouth and the mouths of your friends. It's a great way to share wine, laugh, and get a little messy."

Yep. TBH, I have been screaming for the Bills to utilize their running backs more creatively in the passing game for years now. I don't just mean on swing passes and screens. I mean splitting them out wide or into the slot, isolating them on linebackers, and making them a featured part of the Bills offense, rather than just a checkdown or afterthought. From CJ Spiller to TJ Yeldon to Duke Johnson to Nyheim Hines and now to James Cook (and soon to Ray Davis), we've had these guys that are absolutely mismatches in the passing game that we just REFUSE to use in creative ways. Bills fans, of all people, know first hand how lethal a dual threat running back can be and how much it can add to the offense. Ask any Bills fan over 40 who the real engine of the K-Gun offense was more often than not. Here's hoping Brady finally meaningfully incorporates running back involvement in the passing game in creative and diverse ways.

Hines' time in Buffalo was frustrating to me. All this talk of wanting a dynamic receiving back for Josh Allen. Beane goes out and trades for Nyheim Hines, who everyone universally agreed was underused in Indy. The Bills then proceed to just absolutely not use him whatsoever on offense. Just let him sit on the shelf collecting dust. He actually gets used LESS on offense in Buffalo than he was in Indy. We hear that it's just taking time for him to learn the playbook. Meanwhile, guys like CMC get traded to a new team and are on the field a bunch the very next week. And all of this happened AFTER the Bills had already spent a 2nd round pick on James Cook in that year's draft to fill that receiving back role. Obviously, he had the memorable kick return touchdowns game. That was about it for his contributions as a Buffalo Bill, though. Overall, the way Hines' acquisition and time here was handled still seems like a maddening disconnect between GM and coach/OC. In any case, what happened thereafter with the Jetski was an awful thing. Hopefully Hines can rebound in Cleveland.

Derp Josh Allen is Mr Hollywood he'd rather put on a fancy tux and walk a red carpet in Paris and knock up a bartender and he doesn't work hard and he'll never be great as long as he takes things so lackadaisically and they sure don't make 'em like they used to THEY TOOK OUR JOBS derppp

As I learned on Hard Knocks last night, the 2023 Giants offense also scored the least points of any Giants team since 1979! When you consider how the NFL is set up to promote scoring these days and the fact that teams play one more game per season now than they did then...I thought that was a pretty shocking statistic.

I haven't watched it yet but I'm excited to do so. I've heard that it's already more interesting than the training camp ones. I find offseason "how the sausage gets made" stuff with GMs and scouts so, so interesting. Arguably more interesting than the zillionth "longshot to make the team, training camp battle, let's cry with him as he gets cut and gets a job as a garbage man" storyline. For what it's worth...I kind of wish the Bills had been the ones to pull off the trade for Brian Burns, salary cap implications be damned.

The amount of change this team is undergoing makes it hard to pick just one thing. The Bills have a new offensive coordinator (this is his first year without "interim" in the title and installing his own offense) and defensive coordinator. They have big question marks at defensive line (will Von Miller be back to form? Will Rousseau and Epenesa continue their upward trajectory?). They have big question marks at offensive line (will McGovern be good at center? Who fills the leadership void left by Mitch Morse?) They have massive questions at wide receiver. They have questions in terms of the overall leadership void created by the departures of Hyde, Poyer, White, Morse, Diggs, et al. When I look at the 2024 Buffalo Bills, I see a team of massive transition and change. Any one of the above listed things could be reasonably marked as "concerns" going into the season. If I have to pick just one -- to the shock of absolutely no one who has read anything I've had to say since the draft -- my answer would be the WR corps. I have allowed cautious optimism to creep in, but it exists among a healthy heaping of doubt and worry. Can Coleman get acclimated quickly and hit the ground running? Can Samuel be the steady veteran presence on the outside? Can Shakir take another step forward? Can Claypool or MVS or Hamler or whomever step up and be an ancillary threat? Tons of questions in this position group. Easily my biggest "concern" on this team right now.

To me, it's not a question of "can Josh Allen make chicken salad out of chicken *****" with an average to subpar receiving group?". He can, and has. To me, the pertinent question is "have the Bills put Josh Allen in the best possible position to succeed to the best of his capabilities?", and to me, the answer appears to be a no. Now...it's completely valid to say that Stefon Diggs was likely in the Bills' plans for this coming season, that his departure was somewhat unexpected to them, and that given the cap situation, their hands were a bit tied as to how much they could really do to respond. I don't think that's ENTIRELY valid, because I would counter that they could've drafted more than one receiver in a loaded WR draft, could've traded a pick for another team's receiver and given that player an extension, etc. In any case, if the statement is "our offense will be just fine regardless of our WR corps because Josh Allen is our QB", then I agree. If the statement is "the Bills have put Allen in an optimal situation to maximize his production and be the best player he can be", I disagree. And that's what keeps on seeming to happen, in my opinion: the Bills keep turning to Josh Allen and saying "hey buddy, we're gonna need you to put on the cape most weeks in order for our team to win", and I don't think that's a desirable, sustainable, or particularly fair or wise strategy.

I feel like this just confirms the axiom that controversy sells. People wonder why journalists write salacious stuff, but it always -- ALWAYS -- gets a ton more clicks, engagement, and readership (and thus generates more money and subscriptions) than a friendly interview with a GM. Dunne rips apart Sean McDermott? Every living person in Buffalo reads it. Dunne conducts a thorough sit-down interview with the Bills GM? You couldn't find someone who's read it on a Where's Waldo two-pager.

Actually, the sheer lopsidedness of the vote -- 30 to 0 as I type this -- tells me that people are probably thinking a bit more with their hearts than their heads (myself included). I think the lasting impression of many Bills fans is of Diggs not being the same player he once was. I also think it's probably sour grapes for a lot of Bills fans, with many still holding a grudge of sorts against Diggs for the way he forced his way out of Buffalo. I'm sure many DO feel Allen will have the better game -- that's the way I voted. But I'd be surprised if people's emotions weren't coloring their answer to this question.

It's funny, because leading up to the game, both Diggs and the Bills will insist that there's no hard feelings, and that it's "just another game". In reality, I expect the Bills to make it a point to take Diggs out of the game, and I expect the Texans to make a point of trying to feature him. I expect Diggs to be very "up" for the game, and I expect the same from Allen. No one will ever admit to it, but both sides will be motivated to show out against the other. Can't wait.

Crazy that this thread got to six pages without a single one of the people posting in it (or myself) having actually been able to read the article. Never change, Bills fans.

So um... Has anyone cracked this thing yet? I want to hear what ol' Beaner has to say.