oldmanfan

So the president says something goofy, today says he was being sarcastic in a pandemic situation that demands seriousness, but it’s the observers that should be embarrassed. I think we should expect more from a president than that.

I understand that, I teach physiology. When you say it is thought, show me data and not just conjecture would be my request.

Because the president started asking about using it within the body. The staffer he was talking to was referring to the studies on aerosols or surfaces. Surface disinfection of viruses with UV is well known. So maybe if the president would actually be precise we wouldn’t have to have the media try to figure out what he’s talking about. But of course we’re all supposed to know he was being sarcastic.

The drug causes significant cardiovascular side effects. According to the limited studies several patients died from these. Why are you confused?

I said earlier that the studies talked about yesterday needed to be done to confirm that coronavirus has similar susceptibility as other viruses, which it did. Use of UV lights as antivirals has a long history.

Nope. Nebulizers are not injection. It aerosolizes medicines that are then absorbed via inhalation. I use a nebulizer on occasion for my asthma and it is not delivered under pressure nor is it forcefully inserted.

You go tell the ones that died from the side effects. The door swings both ways. That’s why Dr. Fauci and his colleagues are so important.

Again this is nothing new. I’ve used UV lights to disinfect in my lab for over 30 years. Surfaces are different than cells within the body.

I agree. What you’re not seeing is that giving the drug may save lives, it may do nothing, and it may cost lives. Do the studies. Your defense seems to always be the other person is missing the point. Then perhaps you need to make the point clearer.

Sorry but this is how science and medicine works. You don’t know if the drug caused them to recover or if they would have recovered on their own. And in one of the trials I believe a patient or two died from cardiovascular complications. Maybe they would have recovers from the virus on their own. You are reacting emotionally. Scientists and physicians can’t do that. A physician can give this drug off label. And it may alleviate symptoms or not. But you cannot say with certainty until proper studies are conducted.

This is why the current studies either pro or con aren’t worth much. We don’t know anything about patient selection, adequate controls, etc., etc.

I’d like more info on this. It looks like it’s treating a localized infection vs. a systemic one. That’s not injection. That’s inhalation.

Apparently the president is now saying he was being sarcastic yesterday. Regardless of where one stands on the political spectrum, I think it can be agreed that during a pandemic what is needed from leaders is straight talk and not sarcasm. Say what you mean, mean what you say.

Let’s see how the trials go. If they can develop something that can actually inactivate viruses down to the alveolar level I would be happy to say congrats and that I was wrong. But I don’t think they’re damn close to a solution unless you can show me they have Phase 4 trials underway. Again I sit on an FDA Devices panel; it takes a lot to get something like this into actual clinical application.

No, and I am not going to continue this back and forth nonsense. Words matter. The president has the power of the pulpit of the most powerful man on the planet. It is on him to use his words precisely, it is not on you or me or the media or to try and figure out what he means every time he opens his mouth. I hear what he says, an assume he means what he says, and when what he says is stupid and irresponsible that's what it is. If you don't get that it 's because you don't want to for whatever reason. Well then, he needs to watch what he says. Which is the point I've been trying to make.

I watch what is actually said. That is what the FDA director actually said. I watched the president and heard exactly what he said. You have to try and twist his narrative into something. I don't.

Then he needs to be precise. He is the president for God's sake. He needs to realize his words matter.

How? Because the president, governors, etc. listened to the public health and infectious disease experts and got people to shelter in place and to use appropriate social distancing procedures, constant hand washing, masks, etc. Certainly you must realize the high estimates of 1-2 miliion were if no protective measures like that were used. I mean, you can't really be that disingenuous.

At the end of the CNN clip the FDA director agrees with the CNN medical correspondent that using disinfectants or UV light to treat a systemic infection would not work. The picture above seems to show a localized infection where UV light is used.

Clinical trials, assuming any reputable scientist would even consider these bizarre ideas, would take years and years. So why throw that out yesterday without proper context? All it does is give false hope to gullible people. Again, what is needed right now from the leaders of this country is factual and sober assessments of this situation, not pie if the sky stuff.

You've proved nothing. The president said something stupid yesterday. Why can't you just admit that?

I would say yes. The issue with using this to treat the Covid issue is that the viral effects cause pulmonary fibrosis from my reading, which in turn affects the alveoli, and from the diagram shown I see no way the UV light would penetrate into the alveoli to have an effect. I commend you for finding this, however.

Words matter. And I am not the one with an honesty problem here.

I can categorically state that if you started injecting disinfectants into people tomorrow, or started trying to pass UV lights into the lungs and shine them in there, you will kill people.

I do not think I indicated he said patients should drink bleach. What did he say to the government official. Quote: so it would be interesting to check that. Him talking to the guy that works for him. And the guy then said we have people we can talk to about it, or words to that effect. Your parsing stuff to try and defend this is laughable.