Dan

That was a "trivia" question during the Thursday night game. Me and my buddy guessed Kelly and Marino. That was the answer, they stated later in the broadcast.

This pretty well sums up my opinion. If guys like this, Irvin and Sapp, get in... Reed should easily be in. He's not in the HOF today for one reason only. He retired and dropped off the radar; no announcing gigs, no analyst gigs, no real public ass kissing of the voters.

Very interesting little read! I think we can take away several tidbits: 1. When EJ was checking down in every game... that was him, not the play design. Some of us wondered why the game plan seemed to change so much, as though Hackett was protecting EJ. Turns out, the game plan was probably the same. EJ just didn't "trust what he was seeing" so he checked down. 2. As BuffaloBill said, the coaches seem to be coaching him up good. It's nice to hear that they look at other great QBs and try to emulate them. 3. A Cash said, the mark of a good QB is trusting your receivers and throwing to where they should be, not where they are. But, if you do that, you're going to have interceptions. It happens. Not only does EJ have to shake it off, but so do fans. Just as good QBs need good WRs that can adjust and get the ball, good WRs need a good QB that will trust them throw the ball. 4. EJ is learning to be an NFL QB. Its going to take some time. He's gonna have to watch a lot more film, have a lot more coaching, gain more experience, and make more mistakes. Let's hope he continue doing all that and we see the progression from rookie, to good QB, to great one; but remember it's going to take time and there's gonna bad games along the way.

I think most fans are critical of announcers because they're always bashing Bills players during a game. But, honestly, for the last decade plus the Bills players have been sucking it up on Sundays. They've deserved all the negative comments they've gotten from all the announcers and pundits! I've found most announcers, Tasker included, to be quite praising of the Bills... when they deserved it or do something good. But, how much good can you say when the Bills are routinely fielding a team that's borderline NFL quality?

excellent!

Same here. Most any other player is tossed committing a 2nd personal foul, especially a grab the face mask pull a player around type foul, after committing his first one. Not only was he not tossed out, he wasn't even penalized.

This about all sums it up for me. IMO, the defender clearly made contact and impeded the receiver's abilty to catch the ball. That's pass interfence. However, the league has literally given the Patriots wins with a multitude of other BS calls and non calls, so any Pat fan needs to just take his lumps and sit down. You can't get all the calls, all the time. Stop the whining. For me, it points to the larger issue of what the NFL has become. Nearly unwatchable. The refs take over almost ever game, every week and make wildly inconsistent calls. Its beyond absurd. 2 plays earlier the refs called PI on the Panthers and it was way less contact than the final play. Then they literally give them 2 more seconds to ensure they can hit the hitch to make the final play possible. In the Denver/KC game the defender gets a personal foul because he's TALKING to the WR after a pass breakup. Last night, Talib crabs Smith's face mask, pulling him, while talking... no flag. Then there's the other Pat lineman that HEADBUTS a Panther player while scuffing after a play... no flag. So, did the refs make a bad call on that last play? Yeah. But, it's really no different than they call every other game, every week... piss poor and with zero consistency. I'm just glad to see the Pats finally getting the same great officiating we've all been getting for quite a while.

All the while the Refs ignore crap that gets called against every other team... like a head butt after the paly is over.

Firstly, I don't assume anything about any poster, good or bad. I allow their posts posts to do the talking. I'm not making any assumptions about your knowledge or experience, as I'm sure you're not making any about mine. I simply made a comment regarding one of your posts in which you refuted another post that cited quantifiable information with nothing more than dismissal. Quite honestly, its not worth continuing, but fine you disagree with it because you've watched alot of film on Wood. But, without watching tha same footage of all 32 centers every week, I just find it hard to definitively call him one of the top 5 in the league based on how he plays alone and not comparing it to all other centers in the league.

Actually, I did read your response. And it didn't mention any competing analysis other than, it doesn't rank one of my favorite players where I think he belongs, ergo it sucks. Had you provided some insight to support your opinion, I'm sure I would have thought differently. And, no, I don't have time to watch game film on all 32 centers in the league and rank their individual performance in relation to one another (note I said individual not team, as you cited). I watch the Bills games, fairly closely. So, yes, I think he's a pretty damn good center. Top 5? I'm not in a position to say; hence, I defer to someone that watches all 32 centers equally, like PFF. Furthermore, I agree, all grading systems are and can be flawed. And fully support and often do question their validity. However, I usually base it on more than I how I feel after watching a game or 3. That's all my point was. If you question PFF's grading, then provide myself and others reading the board with something more substantial. I welcome that! (I'll qualify this with: if you presented all sorts of factual good info 2 days ago in a separate thread, excellent. But, I'm not sure what that thread or discussion was about, based on this one.)

Excellent response. Someone takes time to watch each player specifically, league wide, grades them all out but because it doesn't agree with what you just know to be right, well then throw it all out. Brilliant.

I think its also important for people to realize that these guys aren't machines or computer programs summed up into a Madden score that produce at the same level consistently. Some players take longer for the lights to go on. Some players experience the "Sophomore Slump". Some rookies hit "the wall". Sometimes guys just have a bad day. In this "now" generation, too many times people expect results immediately and every time. But, the real world just doesn't work that way. My guess with McLovin, it's taken a couple of years for him to adjust, combined with a new coach(es) that's doing a better job putting him in a place to win, combined with better overall talent around him. It's not a good answer because you can't quantify it and it flies in the face of cutting a high draft pick after his 3rd preseason game because he's not getting HOF consideration yet, but it's all I got.

ok... now this thread has officially become a comedy routine. lol

As I noted in the Pre-Game thread, I thought EJ was the key to this game. He had to bounce back because you just knew the Jets were going to stop our running game. Turns out... EJ did! He was steady, consistent, safe with the ball, all while taking some good shots down field. He even hit on the deep, side line pass! You really can't ask for more from your QB than what EJ gave us today. I'll also add that although we're still entirely too predicatable on offense, Hackett did a much better job of mixing the play calls up to keep the D guessing. Oh and Kiko? The guy is an absolute beast. He was all over the field! It seemed every play he was somewhere near the ball carrier. It's rare to see any LB play as well as he did, let alone a rookie. Wow! just an impressive player. Now, let's just hope to see them do this a little more consistently. But today was the type of game that gives us hope. Maybe these aren't the same old Bills, afterall.

shakin it up!!! woooo

Week 11: New York Jets at Buffalo Bills Sunday, November 17, 2013 at 1:00pm TV Network: CBS (TV Map) Announcers: Ian Eagle and Dan Fouts DirecTV: 704 Bills Radio: On the call: John Murphy (play by play), Mark Kelso (analyst), Joe Buscaglia (sideline) Flagship: Buffalo – WGR550 (550AM); Toronto - Sportsnet 590 The Fan; Rochester - WCMF (96.5) and WROC (950AM); Syracuse - WTKW (99.5/WTKV 105.5) Sirius: 108 ================================================================= Game Preview: Projected by many to finish near the bottom of the AFC, New York (5-4) has instead managed to hold its own. After watching several contending teams lose last weekend, the Jets come out of their bye with a one-game lead for the second wild-card spot. The Jets have to be feeling good about posting back-to-back wins given their recent domination of the Bills (3-7). New York, which won 27-20 on Sept. 22 behind Smith's season-high 331 passing yards and three total TDs, have averaged 29.3 points in taking seven of eight from Buffalo. Read more at ESPN game preview... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scouting Report: Week 11 (from Buffalo Bills.com Chris Brown) NFL.com Video Preview 'Playbook': New York Jets vs. Buffalo Bills NFL.com Game Center Team Stats: Bills Jets Total Yds/Game.... 332.9 331.2 Total Rush.............140.7 129.0 Total Pass............. 192.2 202.2 Points/Game.......... 19.9 18.8 Time of Poss.......... 27.7 32.1 ---------------------------------------------- Yds/Gm Allowed... 355.9 325.2 Rush Yards........... 117.3 73.8 Pass Yards........... 238.6 251.4 Points Allowed........ 25.9 25.7 Source: NFL.com Injury Report: Buffalo Bills NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Johnson, Stevie WR Groin DNP DNP DNP Out Searcy, Da'Norris S Hamstring DNP LP LP Probable Williams, Kyle DL Achilles DNP FP FP Probable Woods, Robert WR Ankle DNP DNP DNP Out Source: BuffaloBills.com New York Jets NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Allen, Antonio S Concussion FP FP FP Probable Colon, Willie OL Calf FP FP FP Probable Cribbs, Josh WR Knee FP FP FP Probable Cromartie, Antonio CB Hip FP FP FP Probable Cumberland, Jeff TE Concussion FP FP FP Probable Douzable, Leger DT Illness DNP FP FP Probable Ellis, Kenrick DT Back LP LP LP Probable Green, Alex RB Hamstring LP FP FP Probable Hill, Stephen WR Foot/Knee LP FP FP Probable Holmes, Santonio WR Foot/Hamstring LP LP LP Probable Ivory, Chris RB Knee FP FP FP Probable Kerley, Jeremy WR Elbow DNP DNP DNP Out McIntyre, Garrett LB Knee DNP DNP DNP Out Pace, Calvin LB Hip FP FP FP Probable Salas, Greg WR Knee FP FP FP Probable Sudfeld, Zach TE Knee FP FP FP Probable Walls, Darrin CB Shoulder FP FP FP Probable Winslow, Kellen TE Knee LP DNP LP Probable Source: NewYorkJets.com Practice Status Game Status DNP = Did Not Participate in Practice Out = Player will not play LP = Limited Participation - Less than 100% of normal reps Doubtful = 25% chance a player will play FP = Full Participation - 100% of a player's normal repetitions Questionable = 50% chance a player will play Out = Player will not play Probable = 75% chance a player will play (-) = Not Listed = No practice status available (-) = Not Listed - No game status available The Odds: Line: Bills -1 Over/Under: 41 Source: The Linemakers Up to date lines... if you're in Vegas. My Take on the Matchup: Well, here we go again. Another week with an opponent that, at least on paper, we match up well against. So why do I feel like we're going to get crushed? Oh yeah, because the Jets have mostly dominated the Bills during the last few years. And after last week's abysmal performance, it's just hard to imagine anything different. EJ has gotten a lot of criticism after his game last week, and rightfully so. Hence, for me, he is my key to this week's game. It's all about EJ. How will he bounce back? Will he respond to the critics with fire or ice? Will he somehow throw better in colder, wetter conditions (assuming there's rain)? Can he lead this team to a divisional win against a team that thinks they're making a playoff run? In all likelihood, this game should be one to favor the running backs. CJ is probably itching to get out there and atone for his lackluster game, as well. However, you can expect Rex to throw everything he has at stopping Freddie and CJ. So, EJ is going to have his chances; he has to capitalize. Do that and our offense has a chance. Otherwise, it's could be another long day. So, what will be watching? 1. EJ. Is he the QB of the future? Lay another egg like last week, and it's gonna be hard for this fan to continue with that hope. 2. EJ. Can he throw the ball down the field? Will he ever keep a deep, side line pass in bounds? 3. Marrone and his fun bunch. This is the second time facing a divisional team. Will they have the team prepared? Did they learn anything the first time? Anything at all this season? We need to see adjustments in the game plan and situational game adjustments. Is this the same old Bills or do we finally have a coach doing something to get the win? 4. Ed Reed. If Bills' history serves as a precursor, he'll play like the Ed Reed of old, have all the pundits claim he's back, only to suck the rest of the year and retire. 5. EJ. Can he handle the blitz by doing more than checking down? Go Bills!!

I clicked on the Make A Wish site yesterday, and got an error message... the site had crashed due to high volume! So, yeah, I think it definitely helped motivate people to donate. As I understand it, Make A Wish survives on donations. The wishes are granted through a combination of donated services and money donated to pay for it all. In a couple of the articles I read, there was an outpouring of people wanting to donate their time and services - from vehicles, to hotel, to makeup artists, actors to participate, on so on. I would guess the City donated some or most of the police escort and such. Granted, I'm sure the fact that it went viral and they had crowds reaching 10,000+ was something they didn't expect (and cost more). But, I would also guess Make A Wish paid for some of the stuff as well. One of my favorite pics, online, from the event. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZJFN4fCEAAGBzh.png It was pretty darn incredible!

I agree. Although I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Marrone just yet, he makes several bad in-game decisions each week. This punt was certainly one. The overall red zone play calling certainly qualifies. But, some of the time managment is bad, as well. Prior to the end of the half, we had the ball at about the 45 with1:20ish left (as I recall). It was 3rd and 6. We needed to convert, if for no other reason than just to not give the Steelers another shot with time on the clock. But, rather than use a time out and make sure the rookie is settled down and the right call is made. They let it go, rush back to the line, and fail on 3rd down, punt and give the ball back to the Steelers after taking about a minute off the clock. Just bad. I agree the players need to execute. But, I contend that the coaching can make that easier by calling a time out and making sure everyone knows what's going on. Marrone has done some good things with this team. But he's also done some bad things as well. His in-game situational awareness is amateurish. And it's just not improving as the season progresses. Nothing on the offense is improving. It's like he and Hackett developed an offenseive game plan last summer and they're sticking with it, no matter how many defenses slow it down. The offense, as a whole, is stagnating as each successive teams gets more film on it. In his defense, Moorman's leg was probsbly getting pretty tired after what.. his 18th punt at that point?

Last year Spiller was one of the best backs in the league, a rising star. This year he has yet to paly with any consistency. I ask everyone, has CJ changed? Or has the coaching staff changed? Where is the real problem? Hackett is in over his head and the offense has suffered all season because of it. Marrone even said as much last week when he said they had to get better at calling plays in the red zone. Did they this week? Outside of not having a good QB on the roster, the single biggest problem facing this team is the coaching staff. Week in and week out, the defense is put in a position to succeed, to take advantage of their strengths. They don't always make the play, because some are rookies and they're still learning. Conversely, every week the offense is put in the worst possible positions for the talent on the field. Sometimes, they still make the play because of a blown coverage, or just good indiviual talent. But, more often than not... our team is being out coached. So, rail on the players all you want, but everyone knows you don't stack the box and ask a RB like Spiller to dive up the middle. Everyone, but Hackett apparently. He's taken fairly productive palyers and continually managed to misuse them in the best ways.

Agreed. Keep drafting QBs until you get a true starter. If more than one develops, you have someone to trade. But, as long as we have QB play like we've had this season, especially today, we're just wasting seasons.

Prior to the game, I was looking for several things: 1. Could the coaches improve their play calling and red zone efficiency? Turns out, we didn't get many opportunities but on the one shot in the 1st quarter, it was more of the same. Run, run, pass. Marrone and Hacket just have to improve. I truly don't understand why they haven't. 2. EJ Manuel, would he improve and out play his backups? Turns out he would look abyssmal. I don't know if its Hacket going ultra conservative to "protect" EJ or if EJ just plain sucks. But either way, this was not the same offense we've seen the last couple weeks. It was pathetic. EJ absolutley has to see something more than 10yds down the field. And if he can't, he should be benched. If the coaches won't let him, they should be fired. It's really that simple because what we saw today was not an NFL level offense. 3. Marcus Easley. Turns out he didn't get many opportunities today, either. Oh well. 4. The D line had to get pressure on Big Ben, and they did. But they did it at the expense of stopping the run. The Steelers put up 136yds on the ground today, when they had been averaging about 73yds/game. What good is stopping the pass, if you let them run up and down the field? 5. Kick offs. Well, it seems the pathetic offense made sure we didn't kickk off too much. In short, I saw several areas we needed to improve upon, as it turns out they failed miserably in all areas. It was a team loss. From the coaches on down, this team sucked it up today. Yeah, the offense and EJ out sucked everyone else, but it really was a team wide sucktitude.

Why we have to have sily notions like this after every loss? You're right, Stevie is in no way the reason for our woes. So why continue to rag on him? You don't make a bad team better by dumping the only good players you have.

Week 10: Buffalo Bills at Pittsburgh Steelers Sunday, November 10, 2013 at 1:00pm TV Network: CBS (TV Map) Announcers: Marv Albert and Rich Gannon DirecTV: 710 Bills Radio: On the call: John Murphy (play by play), Mark Kelso (analyst), Joe Buscaglia (sideline) Flagship: Buffalo – WGR550 (550AM); Toronto - Sportsnet 590 The Fan; Rochester - WCMF (96.5) and WROC (950AM); Syracuse - WTKW (99.5/WTKV 105.5) Sirius: 117 ================================================================= Game Preview: While Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin is looking for something to turn around his team's disappointing season, the Buffalo Bills hope rookie quarterback EJ Manuel is healthy enough to help them get back on track. Both teams will be trying to avoid a third straight defeat when the Steelers look to continue their dominance over the visiting Bills on Sunday. Buffalo has dropped four straight and eight of nine to the Steelers, including playoffs. The Bills, who last played in Pittsburgh in 2007, are 2-9 there and have been outscored 136-40 during a five-game regular-season and playoff road skid in the series. Read more at ESPN game preview... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scouting Report: Week 10 (from Buffalo Bills.com Chris Brown) NFL.com Video Preview Tunch's Keys to Steelers vs Bills NFL.com Game Center Teams Stats: Bills Steelers Total Yds/Game.... 344.7 341.8 Total Rush.............145.8 73.6 Total Pass............. 198.9 268.1 Points/Game.......... 21.0 19.5 Time of Poss.......... 28.0 30.4 ---------------------------------------------- Yds/Gm Allowed... 362.1 341.2 Rush Yards........... 115.2 131.2 Pass Yards........... 246.9 210.0 Points Allowed........ 26.2 26.0 Source: NFL.com Injury Report: Buffalo Bills NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Goodwin, Marquise WR Hamstring DNP LP FP Probable Lawson, Manny LB Non-injury related - - DNP Questionable Lewis, Thad QB Ribs FP FP FP Probable Manuel, EJ QB Knee FP FP FP Probable Williams, Kyle DL Achilles DNP FP FP Probable Woods, Robert WR Ankle DNP DNP DNP Doubtful Source: BuffaloBills.com Pittsburgh Steelers NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Adams, Mike OT Ribs - - DNP Questionable Beachum, Kelvin OG Knee LP LP FP Probable DeCastro, David OG Ankle FP FP FP Probable Gilbert, Marcus T Ankle LP LP LP Questionable Heyward, Cameron DE Knee FP FP FP Probable Miller, Heath TE Not injury related LP FP FP Probable Taylor, Ike CB Concussion DNP FP FP Probable Velasco, Fernando C/G Thigh LP FP FP Probable Wheaton, Markus WR Finger FP FP FP Probable Williams, Vince LB Concussion DNP LP FP Probable Source: Steelers.com Practice Status Game Status DNP = Did Not Participate in Practice Out = Player will not play LP = Limited Participation - Less than 100% of normal reps Doubtful = 25% chance a player will play FP = Full Participation - 100% of a player's normal repetitions Questionable = 50% chance a player will play Out = Player will not play Probable = 75% chance a player will play (-) = Not Listed = No practice status available (-) = Not Listed - No game status available The Odds: Line: Steelers -3 even Over/Under: 43.5 Source: The Linemakers Up to date lines... if you're in Vegas. My Take on the Matchup: Finally, we get an "easy" game. The Steelers are 2-6, for a reason. They rank pretty low in all the key offensive and defensive categories. The 2 teams actually stack up pretty similar, just as our records indicate. The primary difference being in the running and passing games. The Steelers pass better than they run, while the Bills run better than they pass. This week, hopefully, the match up favors Buffalo with EJ getting back in the lineup and CJ being as healthy as he has all season. If we can continue our season average on the ground while stepping up the passing game, the game might be a good one for us. Assuming EJ can do that, the key to this game, therefore, becomes turnovers and red zone efficiency. We simply have to win the turn over battle. As good as the defense played last week, they didn't generate any turnovers. This week, we need to force a couple. Also, when/if we get down inside the 10 yard line, we need touch downs. Not FGs and certainly not turnovers. With that in mind, I'll be watching: 1. Red Zone play calling. Marrone said this week they need to make changes in this part of their game. Will they? Will we see more creative play calls. 2. EJ Manuel. He's the big question mark. I'm sure his knee will be fine. But, will his play be an improvement over Thad's? Thad and Tuel, even, connected on some deep balls, can EJ? The last time I remember seeing him throw deep, it was all sideline passes 5 yards out of bounds. Will he actually look better than he did in week 4? Or did the time off set his development back? It's gonna be exciting to see how this kid looks. 3. Marcus Easley. With Woods injured, will he finally get some significant playing time? If so, can he out play Hogan, like so many people here think he will. 4. Our defensive line. The Steelers line is not good at all which should make for a good game for Mario, Kyle and the boys. Hopefully, they're pumped and steamroll Big Ben on the way to a dominating performance. 5. Kickoffs. Is it just me, or are the Bills the only team in the league that can't consistently kick the ball through the end zone? Are they purposely kicking it short? I don't get it at all. Go Bills!!

This is, perhaps, a very appropriate perspective. As a rookie, he expected a lot of the language and behavior. He may have thought it was a little over the top, but being a rookie he figured it was all part of the "ritual". But then, it continued into his 2nd year. So what do you do now? He's under contract. The guy giving him the most trouble is a captain and has full support of the coaches. What can he do, other than try to laugh it off and hope they move on to other players? Eventually, he did all he felt he could... just quit. This whole situation just screams lack of leadership. The team put Incognito in a position of leadership and that decision, in and of itself, tells you all you need to know about the team and the lack of leaders in the locker room. Stevie Johnson said it the other day, you have fun but you also have to have respect. In the Dolphin locker room there seems to be no respect for other players, for the team, for the colors on their jerseys.

I can not think of one good reason why a QB shouldn't wear a brace on both knees at all times. Why is it not mandatory? (for the OLine as well)