Dan

This really doesn't make sense to me. If Tuel is really the opening day starter at this point, don't you get him playing time with our 1st string offense and the Lions 1st string defense both of which typically only play a couple of series at best in this game? Explain the logic behind Leinart starting.

Yep. If you watched what Marrone said... Tuel is considered the week 1 starter. But, if EJ can play then he will play. Now, maybe he changes his tune come Thursday after Big Bad Thad and Lienert have a great game and master the offense after 3 days of practicing, but as of today.... I think we're looking at a QB combo of EJ, Tuel, then whoever looks best out of the others.

I interpret Marrone's statement as this... Kolb, Leinart, Thad... will not be the starters. The job is EJ's with Tuel backing him up. EJ is currently injured and not fully practicing; therefore, until he gets back out there and is full go, Tuel is the starter. The other 3 guys are 3rd stringers (2 will almost certainly be cut).

I would also like to thank you and all the posters that have posted from camp. Without your dedication, we'd all be left with snipettes of misinformation on ESPN and NFL network. You've allowed myself and so many others to enjoy training camp... and get excited for the upcoming season. You're why this board remains the single best place to be if you want good Bills football knowledge and discussion.

1. I believe (if I'm reading the training camp reports correctly) that Tuel is getting reps with the 1st stringers since Kolb tripped up. 2. Why should the coaching staff start anyone just to appease the opinions of a few fans on a message board? Are we so conceited that we think our opinion is THAT important? Tuel was undrafted for a reason. The fact that he's even likely to make a team, let alone be considered for the #2 spot is more than I'm sure he would have even expected. At some point, I think people need to realize we're not coaches and talent scouts for a reason.

With nearly a full quarter still to play, there's only one thing I'm looking for... no injuries!

A quarter and a half of football and the Bills haven't even tried to throw more than 10yds downfield. The coaches gotta be calling short passes and runs for a reason.

My sister didn't want to get the Sunday Ticket this year because the Bills will most likely suck and she (and I) are getting tired of watching crap after crap every week every year. Then I told her about this thread. So, she made the call. In about 35 minutes: - Sunday Ticket free - Max free - $20 off for 12 months - $15 off for 15 months - offerred movie channels, but she turned them down (doesn't like them) - had to agree to a 1year agreement Looks like we'll be watchin more crappy Bills ball this fall! I really hope they don't suck.

Two points: 1. I think you're misinterpreting the statistics in the article you linked. The article has 2 lists and they included ALL recievers with over 40 catches. The first list being the top 10 receivers in the league (with over 40 catches), ranked by the total number of drops. Stevie is #10 on that list with 11 drops and a drop rate of 12.22%. The second list is the receivers ranked by their drop percentage. Stevie isn't on that list. So he's not tied for 2nd worst drop percentage in 2012, he's not even one of the 10 worst. I think what you were trying to say is that of the 10 receivers with the most drops, Stevie is [almost] tied for 2nd [although he's actually 4th on that list in drop rate; however, statistical significance is something we really don't wanna attemt here]. 2. I remembered different stats for 2011. And, to try and clear it up, I went ahead and looked for the article. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/ As you can see, Stevie is not on the list of 20 worst receivers in drop percentage. In other words, he's not a "top 10 pass dropper" in 2011. Interestingly, his number of catches were very similar to 2012 (79 vs 76 in 2011), and his drop percentage appears to be fairly similar as well. Albeit, that article doesn't list his actual drop percentage in 2011, but I remember it being in the mid12% range. Either way the point being... I think you misremembered your stats for 2011. As for 2010, Stevie was #9 in drop percentage at 13.68%. Just for interest, he was #11 in receptions with 82. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/ So, although he was in the top 10 for drop pass percentage in 2010, he has clearly worked on his consistency and improved his standings in this category and for the last 2 years he's not been one of the league worst regarding dropped passes. Now... does all this answer the question of him being a true #1 WR? No. But, what it does show is that Stevie has worked on his drop percentage in the last 2 seasons and is not one of the worst in league in dropping passes. So, in the conversation regarding his not being a #1 WR, I think we can remove the "he drops too many balls" from the list of supporting argumentation.

So this what it's come to? Hoping to sign a bunch of quality undrafted guys. Its pretty sad when you think anout what this team has done to us.

This thread is why the press is the way it is. We have a thread about the inaccuracy of someone's facts; yet, not a single fact is given or supported to demonstrate the inaccuracies. You obviously don't need facts to make arguments or generate discussion - which is what the majority of the press is about now. Throw something out there every day, generate "likes" and hits and such, collect ad dollars.

Assuming this isn't sarcasm... name all the teams that went from the cellar to a winning record by starting a couple rookies, a few low tier FAs and an UDFA or two. These new, unproven players are starting at fairly important positions, as well, like QB, WR, OL, & LB. Add to the second rate talent, that a college program is being installed and I'm afraid we have a recipe for failure.

I agree with just about everything you said. I'll add though, that Chan should have been forced to hire a real Offensive Coordinator or take the job and hire a HC. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now... hiring a HC who is also going to be largely responsible for one of the coordinator roles is a recipe for mediocrity. I would have also drafted a a QB last year when there seemed to be a number of quality QBs for the taking, because I no matter how good Fitz may or may not be, we all knew he wasn't the long-term answer. Yes, changes needed to be made this off season. Afterall, we were coming off yet another losing season. However, what I'm seeing is a complete blow up of the team by the same guy that built it. That, in my eyes, points to a front office with no clear direction and no confidence in its decisions. And to now think we have to wait another 3 years or have any patience at all just to see if they finally figured it out, well I just think that's absurd.

I see you're point to a degree, but this team has dug this hole. Not the fans. Plenty of fans are and would be patient, if we had any semblance of a competitive team on Sundays. How long do you wait before making a change? For simplicity, lets just take the last regime. In 3 years, no winning record and an abyssmal division record. So, don't you have to make some change? You can't just keep status quo, can you? OK so fine, lets make some changes. But, now they're in wholesale, tear it down mode... new coaches throughout and a sifgnificant roster turnover. That tells me the last plan didn't work. OK. fine. But who's orchestrating the new turnover? The same people that did the last one. Now, why exactly should anyone have any comfidence that they suddenly know what they're doing? I agree, this team is a mess. But, I hardly doubt its the fan's hope for change that's at the root of it... rather its the team's inability to consistently win more games than they lose.

Seriously? Patience and 3 years to "rebuild" and become competitive? Nix has been here and been calling all the shots for 3 years already. I, for one, had patience and let him make the drafts and stuck by Chan and Fitz and the whole thing... well now Nix has aborted that baby and we're back to courting a new girl. And I have to wait 3 more years to see how this one turns out? I'm sorry, but that's just asinine. Nix and Ralph said 3 years ago, it was going to take time; they had a plan and it was going to take patience. I suppose it was a 6 year plan that required a lot of mediocre player movements and coaching changings. Whatever. For this fan, the patience has run out. Field a winning team or find someone that can, but I have zero confidence that there's any plan or ability to field a winning team within One Bills Drive.

win more games than they lose

There haven't been any. A pocket passer that happens to run well when forced to scramble, aka Elway, doesn't count, IMO. In fact, I don't think any running QBs have even made it to the Superbowl (does Tarkenton count?). But Tarkenton and even Steve Young seemed to be pass first and run only when I have to QBs (albeit with some designed runs thrown in). I would argue its because running QBs have grown up using their legs to bail them out and aren't very good passers. When it gets to the playoffs, its too easy to shut down the run game and force these guys to pass. Hence, they fall short. Sure they win, they make great highlight reels. But, in the end, the most consistent teams win and win it all with pocket QBs. Now, perhaps the worm is turning, but I think it'll take a running QB who is also an excellent passing QB, to really do something. Kap seems to be the better passer; hence, I give him a far higher chance of succeeding than RGIII for example. I suppose time will tell. But, if you're looking to build a long term winning franchise I would still prefer to go the tried and true route as opposed to looking for that first QB that can take a read/option spread offense to the SB.

There were a lot of bad and inconsistent calls in this game, many going in the Ravens' favor. The refs literally took the game over at times with their penalties and on field conferences, effectively slowing the game down and taking the Bronco offense out of its rythym in the first half. However, this call was perahps the worst one of the game. As I recall the ball began coming out as Manning was bringing the ball down, long before it got to his body and long before he put a second hand on it. That is, by definition, the Tuck rule. Essentially, as I see it, if the QBs arm is stationary or going backwards and he loses it -its a fumble. Once his arm starts going forward, its a forward pass - even if he loses it while bringing back to his body. This was text book tuck rule. And yet, the league was once again wildly inconsistent in its interpretation of its own made up rules. The more games I watch, the less I want to watch because more and more it seems as though the refs are doing their very best to dictate a particular out come. I'm just not sure... is it being done to follow a contrived "story line" or is it to follow a contrived betting line.

I can see that. The Bears have now interviewed 13 candidates! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000120834/article/nfl-headcoaching-search-tracker I'm not sold at all on Marrone. But, 13 interviews and still counting?

I'm trying to keep an open mind. But, this feels like the same old same old. Yeah, its new guys.. young guys. But, we currently have a young HC Who just hired his college buddy, with next to no NFL experience, to run our offense. How is it different from the sub par staff that Gailey or Jauron or Greg or.. put together? Sure this time it may work, but based on past experience with the Bills and other teams; it headed for mediocrity. I'll keep watching, hoping... but for now color me far less than impressed. This was the new HC, the young HC, the inexperienced HC's first big decision and its less than stellar to say the least.

This would be exactly the type of uninspiring move that would suck. We don't need to recreate a so so college program; we need to build an NFL team. I truly hope this turns out to be wrong.

This is my 3rd. I have no idea how people say he cold be a first round pick? This must be a horrible QB draft. He's got alot of work to do to be an NFL QB, IMO.

Is this supposed to be a highlight reel??

Discussing this point with a buddy of mine today and that was essentially my point. The running, read option QB and offenses designed around them seem to be all the rage. They put up points and make highlights. But, look at the playoffs this year and in recent years... when the games get big defenses shut these offenses down and force these guys to pass. And more often than not, they fail. QBs need to pass first and run last, IMO.

I was saying the same thing! No way he should have still been playing... his career could be over with a blown knee. Just bad.