Kirby Jackson

Lol, I think that the point is, “if Coleman is elite as a rookie, Shakir continues to improve despite additional defensive attention, Claypool plays like he did in 2020, MVS plays like he did in 2020 & Curtis Samuel has the best year of his career, they will be okay” isn’t a high percentage play. I think that’s the point. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely that the Bills have an above average WR room? No. As of today, I think that they are bottom 3. Can that change? Sure. Right now, it’s a bunch of sketchy resumes with an elite QB. We all hope that they hit their peaks this year. It just isn’t statistically likely.

Appreciate the stats. I’d say that’s meaningful.

I don’t agree. I appreciate @BADOLBILZ clarifying facts. If someone says, “FSU was a run heavy team” I assume that’s true. I’m thankful when someone provides the statistics telling the truth. We all form opinions and thoughts on here. The more factual information that we have at our disposal the more evolved our thoughts are. It makes for way better conversation when we all have the same truths as the baseline.

Perhaps I don’t see any of these guys requiring an extra body at this point. That just means that extra body can be used to roam or make certain lanes crowded. Maybe that extra body is used to spy Josh? That’ll make it harder for him to run. There are lots of reasons not having elite skill players hinders your offense. This thought train is just one…

I agree. That’s a different point though. For all of those people “really starting to love the WR room” it’s important to realize that these guys will face scheme and talent that they hadn’t prior. Diggs accounted for A LOT of that. The space will get smaller and the windows tighter. There is not a guy on this team that has Diggs’ talent or separation ability. This room got different. A reasonable argument can’t be made (at this point) that they got better.

I have that answer. Over 60% of the stadium is covered. Most of the upper deck and all of the “sideline clubs” (or whatever we are calling them). Those are covered twice. There is the main canopy over the upper level and low ceilings with radiant heat for both levels of club seats. The seats that will not be covered are primarily through the lower level. That includes that new club section between the 40’s.

The data exists out there. I don’t have the time (or will) to dig it up. I’m confident in saying that “more often than not, in man, Diggs saw the team’s top CB.” I’m also confident in saying, “often he had attention from a S as well.” If you need the actual numbers to support it, feel free to dig them up. I didn’t think that would be a controversial claim.

When someone got shadowed it was him. He regularly saw the #1 CB. He often saw a S over the top as well. He was the main focus of defenses n the passing game (for 4 years). My point was that, now, someone else will see that #1 CB. If they don’t have a S helping, that’s another defender to “roam.” The windows will in turn be tighter. There will be less space for the pass catchers to operate. I’m not sure that is up for debate? Sauce/Ramsey/Gonzalez would have spent their time on Diggs. Now, it will be spent on Samuel/Coleman/Shakir. What facts are you disputing? Are you disputing that Diggs saw opposing team’s best CB? Are you disputing that they often had S help vs. Diggs? Please elaborate…

Easy one for me. Keon Coleman. He was about my 15th favorite WR in the draft (maybe lower). His lack of separation at the college level terrifies me. Apparently it was rough find space for him in OTAs. I hope that I’m wrong and he’s a quality #2 or 3.

The point remains, who’s getting that number 1 corner now? The answer is “someone that’s never seen them with less ability than Diggs.” It’s just a part of the equation that some want to avoid.

I just have a feeling that it won’t be the Chiefs this year. They should be there. My guess is Cincy or Baltimore. I don’t think we have enough weapons. I don’t trust Miami. Houston will come back to earth a little. The Jets are phonies.

Stop gaslighting and post the quotes that you’re claiming… If you like this WR room, I’m happy for you. If you think that they are good, you aren’t following what other teams have at the position. MVS was good enough to get 42 targets, 5th on the Chiefs. He got 1 more than Noah Gray. I agree that Samuel and Shakir are somewhere between 2 & 3. They’re playing as 1 & 2 (with Coleman in a similar place). All of those guys are between the 50th - 100th best WRs in the league.

My goodness. Why would you send 5 WRs out there if you have a bottom 3 WR room? The Bills need to play primarily from 12 this year. Kincaid is their best pass catcher. We have depth because we have about 6 guys that could be 3-5 on other team’s depth charts (excluding the Bears, we don’t have anyone above 4 there). Teams still had to gameplan for Diggs. That freed up so much space for everyone else. Without that threat the windows tighten. We are in a division with Sauce, Ramsey and Christian Gonzalez. Those guys are way better football players than the WRs lining up across from them. I am not trying to be doom and gloom. I’m being a realist. The Bills are absolutely a bottom 3 WR room as of today. Can they outperform that? Sure. They can play well and be bottom 10. They can end up a top 3 TE room and a top 10 RB room. If all of that happens they are okay. They can address the top of the WR depth chart next year. They have an elite QB that covers mistakes. Just because Josh is amazing doesn’t mean that the WRs are. I never said that anyone couldn’t get better. I said that as of today that’s who they are. Please find quotes from me saying, “guys can never get better.” Post them here…

Omg, no. I have read plenty of Cosell. So if he’s a “top of tier 2 guy” he’s 3 levels (at least) higher than anyone currently on the roster. It’s not debatable 😂😂 I agree that it will be up to Brady to scheme them open. That’s the corner that the Bills have backed themselves into by entering July with a bottom 3 WR room. I laugh when people say, “he schemed guys open at LSU.” Jefferson and Chase were his top 2 WRs!! Lol, I could have schemed them open. We will see if he can take a bottom 3 WR room and turn them into a bottom 10 group. It’s possible but on paper they aren’t close to there now.

…with every single guy experiencing more defensive attention than they have in their careers. Expect less space and better players to be across from you. If Diggs was commanding all of the attention, it’s getting pushed to a bunch of guys with less talent than Diggs. That’s really not debatable.

Well, it’s obviously an important reason for the others success. If Diggs was taking the attention of 2 guys (usually including the team’s number 1 CB) someone needs to be doing that for everyone else to have the space that they previously had. My question for you is who is taking the double team?

Who’s doing this now?

No, he is not. He is a TE. When he gets franchise tagged it will be as a TE. It’s the Jimmy Graham argument. Kincaid is the most prominent pass catcher on the roster. He is a TE. He will play some from the slot. He’s an important part of the passing game. He is not a WR. The Bills pass catchers and the Bills WRs are not the same thing. We continue to insert Kincaid, Cook, and to a lesser degree, Knox into the conversation to prop up our poor WR room. We have a good TE group, an average RB group, and a bottom 3 WR room. Our pass catchers are definitely bottom 10 and very likely bottom 5. Our QB is top 2.

Yep, again, different topic. When we discuss the “Kansas City Wide Receivers” we should discuss the “Kansas City Wide Receivers.” If we want to discuss the passing game, we can talk Mahomes/Kelce/Reid. This thread was about the Bills wrs. Some turned it into a conversation about the passing game. Those things are different.

I don’t disagree. The point remains. When talking about “the Bills WRs” we shouldn’t be talking about “the Bills TE.” That’s a different conversation. This conversation is about “the Bills WRs.”

This thread has been interesting because some of the people defending the WR ROOM have talked about TE, Josh, Brady, etc… 😂 Yes, the Bills have some things to like on offense. They have a top 2 QB. Their OC led arguably the greatest college offense in history. They have a young TE that appears to be a future pro bowler. Their WRs are at, or near, the bottom of the league. That’s all true. When talking about the WR ROOM there is no need to talk about the QB, OC, TEs or RBs. They are not WRs.

I think that subtracting Morse, Davis, Diggs and adding Coleman, Claypool and Samuel is a net loss. We keep looking at what they brought in but without what they replaced (thanks @HappyDays for saying it so much more succinctly). In terms of the guys, Kincaid was a swing at an elite player. He was the first TE off the board that they traded up for. Most thought that he’d be gone by the time that they picked. He was productive as a rookie and showed flashes of potential to be one of the league’s best TEs. We will see what that looks like as the primary pass catcher in year 2. He’s the exception imo. It’s well documented on here that Coleman wasn’t my guy. I am terrified by his lack of separation. Obviously I’m hoping he turns into a good (or hopefully great) player. I just can’t be convinced that he is that and I don’t believe that the Bills think that either (at least that he’s a future number 1). If they felt that he was that guy, they wouldn’t have traded down twice. He was the 8th WR drafted. The Bills probably felt similarly about a bunch of receivers and would take which ever one was left. The Bills are positioned to get better next offseason for sure. I think that they will need another edge (unless Solomon comes on) and a WR at the top of the depth chart. They don’t need another guy they need “the” guy. Let’s hope that they don’t waste this year because they didn’t do enough at WR. Also: Claypool has a ton of talent and is a waste. My buddy that’s a scout with the Bears told me what a terrible teammate he was. His quote, “we paid him to stay home and got better.” If he keeps his head on straight he can be as good as Davis was. I just think that the odds of that are < 20%.

Fair Kincaid was a swing at an elite player. The rest of them are meant to be role players. I’m including Coleman here. The Bills DESEPERATELY needed a WR at the top of the depth chart. They traded down twice and picked the 8th WR in the draft. That doesn’t scream, “we think this guy is a difference maker.” They’ve made medium FA moves in McGovern and Samuel because they let bigger investments in those areas go (Morse and Diggs). I’d argue that the commitment to surrounding Josh with elite players is actually going backwards despite them allocating some resources over the last couple of drafts. They still haven’t addressed the top of the WR depth chart.

Don’t we have this thread on the 1st page already? Yes, they’re inexperienced. That’s a nice way of saying “underwhelming.”