billsfan1959

I think this is what we are having a difference with Alpha. We all know you are not defending him. My issue is twofold: 1) Your interpretation of the video does not seem to square with what most people see and 2) Your argument that there is no proof that he intended to knock her out should somehow make a difference in how Rice's actions should be judged. It doesn't.

Maybe it is time to set a new precedent?

IMO, this is not a gray area, it is pretty much black and white. There are certain things that, as a man, you NEVER do. At the top of that list is to strike a woman, particularly your intimate partner. I don't care if it is a mere slap or a wind up, Mike Tyson, upper cut. There is no fine line or matter of degrees: YOU DO NOT DO IT.

Perhaps the fact that you openly admit that you are THE ONLY ONE who sees the video in this way should tell you something...

There is absolutely no way on earth you or anyone else can say, from that video, that she was or was not unconscious before her head hit the wall. There is also no way you can determine the type or force of the blow in that video. And, from a legal perspective, the law presumes that you intend the natural and probable consequences of your actions. I have no idea why you want to choose to interpret the video as you are doing. However, what you are stating is clear evidence from the video - is not.

That is pure speculation. What is absolutely clear is that he struck her with enough force to send her head first into the rail and wall. And if you really want to analyze the video then look at his reaction to it all. As she hits the wall and floor, he does nothing at all. NO REACTION whatsoever - no indication of panic and no indication of concern for whether or not she is ok. He stands there until the door opens and then drags her part way out of the elevator. This wasn't an "oh my goodness, I didn't mean to do that" kind of moment. IMO, this truly is not an incident you want to minimize

And of those four passes in the 3rd quarter: The one completion was for 16 yards, one incompletion was an overthrow to Watkins on a 40+ yard pass, one incompletion was a throw to the sidelines (and almost a completion) while scrambling for his life because of a complete breakdown on pass protection, and the fourth pass was a bad decision and interception. He had a solid game. However, there are some posters who will never give him any credit at all...

I'm not sure what your point is here. There were people defending Rice and saying, "Nobody really knows what happened in that elevator." However, the vast majority of us did know what happened, based on the facts, and were never "fine" with it. The video is now out and should "start this all up again" for a number of reasons: 1) It gives visual evidence to just how brutal the behavior was, 2) Unfortunately, when it comes to domestic violence, there are a number of people who just don't want to believe without evidence such as this, and 3) the league is saying it didn't know about the tape when the punishment was decided. False outrage? Are you kidding me. The vast majority of us were outraged when it happened, outraged at the level of punishment, and continue to be outraged that there was apparently visual evidence available the entire time. The outrage is genuine - as it should be.

IMHO, I don't think it was a bad pass. It was slightly behind Chandler; however, it wasn't as if he had to reach for it. It hit him on the back shoulder and an NFL caliber TE should make that catch 10 time out of 10. Woods had to really stretch on one catch and there were several others that were a little high but absolutely acceptable and catchable. The only really off target pass was the one in which he overthrew Watkins. The interception was just a bad decision. There were also a number of passes that he threw very well. This idea of EJ not being an accurate passer in the sense of an NFL QB feels a little overblown to me. There are only a handful of QBs in this league that have the type of pinpoint accuracy that people seem to want - they are the elite ones. Everyone knows who they are and they just do not come along very often. Then there are a group of very good QBs who, again iMO, do not throw the ball with any greater accuracy than what I saw from EJ yesterday. He played a solid and poised game. If you go back and look at the game, EJ made a big play on virtually every scoring drive. In addition, there were very few drives that ended because he didn't make a play. He has a long way to go. But what QB who has only played 11 NFL games doesn't?

Absolutely right. They do have an elite offense and the game plan was the right one. The defense gave up one play of over 20 yards the entire game. For the most part, they kept the ball in front of them. When a team wants to throw the ball 50-60 times a game (Cutler threw 49 passes) a defense that doesn't give up the big play, and still stays aggressive, will usually have their opportunities for turnovers or drive ending plays. The defense had the right game plan for the Bears' offense and did a great job given the circumstances. I loved Pettine and I wish him well in Cleveland. He did a wonderful job turning the Bills' defense around and instilling an aggressive, confident attitude. However, far too many times last year I watched the Bills play very good defense, but still give up big plays numerous times during the game. I didn't see as much of that yesterday. I saw a defense that can still play aggressive while being a little more disciplined in their assignments.

Domestic violence is a serious issue in this country. What we see in that video takes place on a regular basis in certain percentage of relationships. Actually engaging in the type of physical violence we see in that video is not "crossing a fine line," it is a fu#@ing quantum leap. There is never a context that justifies that type of behavior from a man. Goodell didn't need this video (although I will never be convinced he didn't see it or at least know of its existence) to set the standard of punishment for NFL players who engage in this type of behavior - it was obvious to everyone familiar with the facts what happened in that elevator. However, now that the video is out, as far as I am concerned, two things should happen: 1) Rice should be banned from the NFL and 2) Goodell should step down. The actions of both were reprehensible.

Considering the game was a season opener, on the road, against a team that could probably be at least a top ten offense in both rushing and passing (if they chose a little more balanced approach), and without Kiko, Bradham, and Gilmore - I was pretty impressed with the overall performance.

Save your breath...or, in this case, the time you spend typing responses to certain posters. Don't you get it? EJ just isn't the answer. He doesn't have the accuracy to get the ball within five yards of any receiver on any given route, he can only read one half of the field, he has slow eyes, they had to dumb down the playbook because he isn't bright enough, he has no pocket awareness, he can't throw the deep ball, he can't throw the intermediate ball, he can't throw the short ball, he's too reckless, he's too cautious, he's not a leader, he's not decisive, he's too thin skinned, he's made of glass...and he has absolutely no potential to become an NFL quality QB... Any one of the hundred backup, practice squad, and unemployed QBs offered up as better options in threads over the last month or so would be better than EJ on his best day. The best thing that could ever happen to this team is for EJ to be gone in any way possible and never be heard from again. If you can't see that, then you are nothing more than an EJ apologist, a homer who sees the Bills through the ultimate rose colored glasses, a naive, gullible individual willing to swallow anything fed to you by the Bills FO, with no capacity for an objective, rational evaluation of EJ's abilities - or, more appropriately, as is painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain, his complete lack of ability. :wallbash:

Actually, that is not what I said. However, let me be clear for you. IMHO, I do not believe the FO was incompetent in thinking Thad Lewis would continued to progress into a good backup QB based on his performance last year. Once he regressed and it was clear he was not the answer, they cut him and, after Orton became available they signed him. As for the part about fans on a message board, I was merely pointing out that I find it funny that most of the people on this board had no problems with Thad as a backup QB until his performance in preseason - and now posters are clamoring about how it was SO OBVIOUS ALL ALONG. IMO, since about the first week of preseason, this board has become almost ridiculous regarding the QB situation...

This is pure hindsight. Pretty much everyone thought Thad Lewis would grow into a very competent backup QB this year based on what he did last year. As a matter of fact, there were a number of posters on this board who felt he should be the starting QB. I am not going to fault the FO for believing the same thing based on his progression last year. Nobody expected him to regress in training camp and preseason. Perhaps they could have addressed it a little earlier in the preseason, but when it was clear he and Tuel both had regressed and were not getting better, then they made a change. It was not as if there were a lot of viable options once preseason rolled around.

Yeah...we get it...what Manziel is doing is similar to something EJ did and, oh by the way...EJ sucks

I have no problem with this. As far as I am aware, kick returners do not get injured at any higher rate than running backs. As for being available for the first offensive snap after the kickoff return, if he is too winded to be out there - then it means he had a nice long return.

First game of the year Ralph smiling from up above Make me proud boys

Glad to hear he is coming back home. Welcome back Vic!

Even more awesome: there haven't been any post's yet in this thread about how EJ suck's....

Over the last 20+ years I have lived in DC and North Carolina. I began, and remain indifferent to the Redskins and Panthers. There are certain players I like (e.g., Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers) and I will root for their teams - as long as they are not playing the Bills. However, I have never been able to develop an emotional attachment to another NFL franchise...not even close....

I do not believe that "mother!@#$er!" is the correct spelling....

Interesting. She may be onto something about the fan base reaction to how EJ answers questions about his performance. However, her analysis of what those answers say about EJ's self-image or self-esteem are nothing more than superficial speculation. Providing an accurate psychological analysis of anyone takes a lot more than reviewing a few press conference clips.

Tom Brady evolved into one of the best quarterbacks of all time and I respect his abilities on the field. I am one of those that subscribes to the theory that the "genius" label given to Bill Belichick has more to do with having Tom Brady as his QB than with his abilities as a head football coach. I know very little about Tom Brady as a person off the field and could not care less. As a fan of the Buffalo Bills, I despise all that represents the New England Patriots (much as I did the Miami Dolphins of the 70s) simply because of their dominance over us the past 14 years - and Brady is at the center of that dominance. However, I absolutely respect his abilities and I will be glad when he retires.

I don't know how long you have been a fan; however, I have been a die hard fan since the late sixties. To say "It hasn't been this bad in a long time" is to completely ignore some absolutely horrific seasons. If you are talking about the past 14 seasons in total, yes, it has been tough and hasn't been this bad in awhile. However, the team went through a stretch like this before from 1967-1979 where the team made the playoffs once, fielded some absolutely atrocious teams, and lost to Miami 20 consecutive times. This is the Bills' 54th year of existence and, during that time, they have made the playoffs only 17 times. To be honest, this team has only had two good periods in regard to playoff caliber consistency: 1963-1966 and 1989-1999. To be a long time Bills fan is to have experienced many more lows than highs. Yet, each year I choose to go into the season with some level of hope and optimism. It is tempered by history and reality...but it is still positive. I have a deep emotional attachment to my team that can never be broken. However, in the grand scheme of things, it is still only a game. I hope they do well this year and make the playoffs. If so, I will be ecstatic with the improvement. If not, then I will be as disappointed as any fan and begin looking forward to next year with the same sense of optimism.