OldTimer1960

Not this argument again! How many people were arrested 3x in college for alcohol related incidents, including a DUI? How many college football players with tremendous skills almost blow their senior season by getting a DUI? The coach nearly suspended him for his entire senior season. Now, you can correctly point out that he got his stuff together and didn't get in any trouble as a senior. Maybe he has matured and become more focused. Maybe not. The question to me is whether that is a good gamble to take with the 10th pick in the entire draft.

So, your assessment of this "crazy" talent is based on your assumption that Floyd and Sanu are capable of being top WRs in the NFL. Based only on what I've read (there is possibility of significant error here), I think Floyd is a VERY risky pick in round one and is not guaranteed to be a top WR. While I like what I've read about Sanu and I am encouraged by his better-than-expected 40 times in his recent pro-day, he only averaged a very pedestrian 10ypc in the stinking Big-East. MAYBE that was because his QB was bad or due to limitations on their OL, but it raises concerns with me. James Hardy had tons of catches in the Big 10 - a much better conference than Big East, and he flamed out despite having better size, too.

Jeffrey doesn't interest me at all, not in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounds. There is a reason that nobody that has watched his games thinks that he can succeed in the NFL.

First, there is A LOT more to playing OT in the NFL than strength - athletic ability is one of them. Second, if you have friends doing 40 reps of 225 and could play LT in the NFL, then BY ALL MEANS become their agent.

no thanks, . Maybe he has matured, but I don't think Tenn would have released him and his winning record if they didn't think he had big problems

Of the 3, my vote is for Kuechly then Gilmore with Floyd a distant third. My reasoning is that most ratings of the 3 that I think are good, rate these guys about equal in talent and Kuechly seems like the safest or "lowest floor" guy of the 3. Gilmore seems to be second with outstanding athletic ability at a position of need. Just my opinion, but I'd avoid Floyd like the plague because of the off-field risk. I am NOT saying he will get in trouble in the NFL, but rather saying that I don't see him as a MUCH better talent than the alternatives and I see his risk as greater.

I guess that I don't disagree, you don't need a 1st round LT to succeed in the NFL. Nor, do I think you need a 1st round <insert any position here>. The Pats don't have a 1st round WR, yet they have been consistently good for a long time. What they have is a GREAT QB. The Saints had a 1st round WR, but he was not their star - the 7th round pick Colston was - but they have a GREAT QB. I could be wrong, but the Packers don't have a 1st round WR, either. I am not picking on WRs, only pointing out that your argument works for any position. I get that a great WR helps open up a lot for an offense. I also agree with some here that a great OL does, too. Same as a great QB, RB or TE. A football team is a system and as many strong parts that you can put in it, the better. No doubt, there are some positions that are more important than others (in particular QB and DE/OLB that can rush the passer), but having a particularly weak link at any position can compromise the system to some degree.

It's almost certainly true of every position (maybe less-so of QB) that most starters weren't 1st round picks. If you accept that teams only have 1 1st round pick and that there are 22 starting positions, then it would take 22 years to fill every position with a 1st round pick. The average NFL career is about 3.5 years, so that isn't going to work... I think that teams need to look for truly great prospects at #1 over needs, but if there are no great prospects available, then need becomes the next factor to consider.

There were signs that the guy could flame out from off-field problems and he did. It was a risk/reward scenario. He was a risky pick, but they thought that his exceptional talent level warranted the risk. In hindsight, it did not work out very well.

Do you mean a previous post in this thread where I said: "I agree that the Bills need another top-level WR and I agree to some degree that Floyd is a good prospect there. I just don't see him as elite or better than players available at other positions - players who don't have the off-field red-flags that Floyd does." ? I think if you take the time to read my posts that you'll find that I am usually pretty fair and balanced and rarely see things as completely black and white. I freely acknowledge the I don't know everything. My point all through this thread is that while WR is certainly a big need and Floyd is certainly a talented prospect, I am worried about the alcohol problem. I personally don't think it should be minimized to "he's just a college kid who had some drinks". As another poster noted, he had 3 alcohol related incidents, one of which was a DUI -pretty serious. He put his college career in jeopardy. True, he cleaned up for his Senior year. Maybe he has matured and addressed that issue and it won't surface again or maybe it will get worse when he has lots of money. I don't know, I am just arguing that I'd rather not take that chance on the 10th pick in the draft. I was also arguing in this thread the exact opposite of what you accused me of being hypocritical about. I think the original premise of this thread was that "Bills need a WR and a LT, but LTs can be found late and developed while WRs are harder to do that with". There is no doubt that the Bills need both an upgrade at LT and WR. There is no debate that both would help open up the Bills' offense. My point there is that they should try to address both needs and the higher in the draft they address each, the better chance they can improve those positions.

What part of "Indeed, both the OL and WR group had serious shortcomings that Gailey and the offensive staff did their best to hide." did you not understand? I never made the "fairly hypocritical" argument that the WRs were just fine. Did you only read the part that supported your argument?

I think it shows more muscle endurance than peak power, but I get your point.

Agreed, the Bills need more 4-3 LBs (good ones). Trouble is, unless the team thinks Luke Kuechly can be very good at OLB, I don't see much to like at that position. Many of the top guys listed at OLB in the draft pubs are only 3-4 OLBs or are 4-3 DEs (Melvin Ingram, Courtney Upshaw for example).

I am not disagreeing with the notion that generally better players are found in the earlier rounds of the draft. That really is my point. I don't understand the argument that you have to find a WR early, but can take late-round players and make them good starting OLTs. True, it does sometimes happen at any position that a late round guy makes it, but it is more likely to get a good starter earlier. I agree that the Bills need another top-level WR and I agree to some degree that Floyd is a good prospect there. I just don't see him as elite or better than players available at other positions - players who don't have the off-field red-flags that Floyd does. To you point that late round gem WRs like SJ, Colston and Miles Austin are few and far between, I'd add the following to the list: Wes Welker (undrafted), Victor Cruz (5th), Mario Manningham (3rd, I think), Anquan Bolden (2nd), Brandon Marshall (4th), Steve Smith (Carolina 3rd), Mike Wallace (3rd), Antonio Brown (6th), Desean Jackson (2nd), Brandon Lloyd (4th). I am pretty sure I could list more, but that is a pretty good list there. I am sure that you could counter with some good starting OTs that were taken later, too, but I think the list would be shorter (just my opinion).

I don't disagree, but you can select any of the first round picks that Millen made and I believe that if he hadn't taken those players then some other team would have grabbed them not too long after Detroits pick. All of those picks were considered highly rated guys. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all NFL GMs are infallible at drafting. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick - this is kind of the opposite issue of taking a bad player early, but he made it to the 6th round meaning that every GM in the league was wrong at least 5 times on him.

I haven't seen any post say that he's had 3 DUIs. I have seen several say 3 alcohol-related incidents, including a DUI. I just don't see Floyd as that ultra-talented - way-better-than-other-prospects guy that warrants taking any risk related to his off-field problems. Many here obviously disagree. I just worry that if he had those problems in college, might it escalate when he gets a boat-load of money in the NFL.

I have to disagree that the Bills' OL was "solid" last year. It was better than the disaster that it had been in the past, for sure, but the OL's pass blocking weakness was masked by the short-fast passing game that the offense adopted. Having better blocking OTs would enable Fitz to have more than a micro-second to stand in the pocket and open up a bit of a down-field passing threat. I share your concern about Reiff, Martin and Adams, but I think that the conclusion that the Bills' shouldn't try to improve the OT spots is off-base. To the point that the Bills' have gotten by with 7th rounders at LT in Jason Peters and Bell, the same can be said for WR where there is almost nobody on the roster that was drafted before round 7, many weren't drafted at all. While I think that WR needs to be upgraded too, I could make the argument that the WRs last year were as "solid" as the OL was. Indeed, both the OL and WR group had serious shortcomings that Gailey and the offensive staff did their best to hide. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I also disagree that Michael Floyd is "too good to pass up". Some here on this board are making him out to be some freakishly good can't-miss prospect like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. I don't see it. I see a guy who is a good prospect with size, adequate speed and very good production at a big-time program - but a guy with major red-flags given that he nearly blew his last college season by having his 3rd off-field problem (all alcohol related including a DUI). I think Floyd is a good enough prospect to consider at #10, but I see him in a mix of about 10-15 other players that are all nearly the same level prospect. I may be wrong and he may be the next Fitzgerald, but I would rather take my chances with another player who has shown that he can control himself off the field and has pretty similar talent on the field.

Boy, I don't like this list of players that they are visiting with. I hope that it is more a smokescreen instead of the guys that they are interested in. Irvin never was a full-time starter in college and the more I hear about Martin, the less I'd want the Bills to take him.

Yes, Millen's draft record was very poor for sure. However, as someone old enough to have been around for all of those drafts, I can say that other than Charles Rogers and Mike Williams, none of those first round picks were considered bad or "reaches" at the time. Many in Buffalo (and other cities) would have been thrilled to get Joey Harrington. Same could have been said for Roy Williams. Williams was 6'2.5", 212 lbs, with 4.42 speed and a lot of production at Texas (70 catches, 15 ypc his last year there for a team not known as a passing team). My point is not to defend Millen, but rather to say that the draft is very unpredictable. Even guys that look like sure things can flame out. Scouting is very important, but having some luck on your side helps, too.

Playing 2nd fiddle to Golden Tate isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the 10th overall pick in the draft. In his first 2 years in the league he has caught an 56 passes for a 10.9 ypc average and zero (0) TDs. Not horrible, but certainly not elite WR territory, either.

I agree. There isn't a lot separating #7 from # 20 in this draft. Of those players, Kuechly has both the production and athletic ability at a significant position of need (unless they don't think he can play OLB very well).

I didn't mean to come across so strongly. I think Hill has talent, but his production in the same GT offense does not even register in comparison to Calvin Johnson and it is barely a blip compared to Demarius Thomas who wasn't elite.

Because he could be the next Travis Henry, too. IMHO, there are too many red-flags for a guy who is a very good, not great, prospect on physical skills and production.

There is no way on earth that Hill's college production warrants even a 4th round pick. Given his incredible athletic ability, he might be worth a LATE 2nd or early 3rd round pick. I don't think you can reasonably spend the 10th pick in the draft on a guy with that little production.

This guy could be in the same group as Jason Pierre Paul - a guy with embarrassing low production for his draft position who could excel as a pro - or he could be a highly over-drafted bust. I think the Bills have made significant strides in FA and the last 2 years' drafts. I'd hate to gamble on this guy in round 1.