OldTimer1960

Word brother! Newton has done a great job in one year at Division 1. He played JuCo the previous year and before that couldn't beat out Tim Tebow at Fla. I know that Newton has shown a good arm and throws a pretty ball, but he hasn't done ANYTHING that an NFL QB needs to be proficient in. Now, I don't know that he can't do those things, BUT with the 3rd pick in the draft, I want a guy who has shown over multiple seasons that he can excell at the college level doing mostly what an NFL player has to do. I think Newton is too much of a gamble for the Bills.

You are correct, sir!

Yes, that's true, but the Bills don't get a chance to draft Sam Bradford and the only other QB worth a crap (if he comes out) is Andrew Luck and he'll be gone before the Bills pick. I have no interest in ANY of the other QBs in this draft in round 1. I don't want project QBs like Newton , Gabbert or Locker. Those guys are 2-3 years away from being decent NFL starters, if they ever make it.

All that I can say to this topic is that I'd rather watch Fitz and the current offense TRY to move the ball next year than watch that PATHETIC, POS, Pile of Cr*P defense give up huge chunks of yard to mediocre RBs every week. NOTHING could be more frustrating than watching backup RBs run for 150 yards against a horrible defense. That's just my bias, but it's the way I see it.

I haven't seen an arm like Mallet's since JP Losman (yes, he had a great arm).

While I agree that the Bills should take a top QB if one is available, I don't think that they have the margin of error to take Cam Newton in round 1. Yes, he is a tremendous athlete. No, I am not terribly worried about the fact that he or his father tried to make financial gains during his recruitment. What has me concerned with Newton is the following: 1. He has only played 1 year of Division 1 football. Is he a one-year wonder who would not have played as well next year when NCAA defenses devise better ways to handle him? With the one-year wonder bust of Aaron Maybin fresh in our minds, I'd just as soon stay clear of Newton in round 1. 2. He plays in a non-traditional spread offense and rarely took a snap under center. Does he have the foot-work and ability to read NFL defenses that will be needed to excell? I know that he does not have that today, and I am not sure that he can develop it. Too much of a gamble (IMHO) in round 1 for this team. 3. NCAA QBs who make their living primarily as runners don't often pan out in the NFL. I look at Newton and see Vince Young, if the team that drafts Newton is lucky. How much of a running threat is Young in the NFL? Not much of one. Teams take away his running ability through scheme and dare him to beat them passing which he hasn't yet shown he can do. (And Young has a GREAT RB playing with him). I'd much rather see them take someone who has produced for several seasons at a high level in college. I also would LOVE to see defensive help first. I can take watching a bad offense much more easily than I can watch a defense that can't stop the run at all. This defense is world-class bad and is painful to watch.

I am not a C.J. Spiller "hater", but I am concerned by his inability to earn playing time. His ball security has been poor and he has shown little as the receiving threat that he supposedly is. Does that mean he is a bust? No, but it is a concern. I like what I've read about his attitude and effort, so I think that there is hope and he certainly has physical tools, so I'll try to remain optimistic.

First, Ngata will be franchised by Baltimore if they have any sense at all. The ONLY hope the Bills have of getting Ngata is calling "the Doc" from Back To The Future and going back in time and taking Ngata instead of Whitner in that draft.

I think to do as suggested risks undoing a lot of good that Chan Gailey has done this year. This team is seriously lacking in talent, yet has been surprisingly competitive in most games. I believe that this is due to one big thing that Gailey has done: He has played veterans ahead of rookies until the rookies are better RIGHT NOW than the vets. This has kept the vets engaged knowing that they'll play as long as they are the best option and teaches the rookies that they must EARN their playing tim - a valuable lesson that they would have to learn sooner or later anyway. I think the above also does some other important things such as: 1. teaching that the expectation is to win NOW, not suffer through growing pains where possible. 2. shows the team who is in charge (Gailey). With regard to the young players mentioned: * I wonder how many fumbles Spiller would have if he had 20 carries. Only being partially sarcastic there, but he hasn't earned the touches and it would undermine what I described above. * I don't think Troup has played that poorly and he is getting a fair number of snaps. Playing more snaps this week won't help him as much as a full offseason of weight training and more coaching on the nuances of leverage and cheating in the NFL trenches. * I think Carrington has earned his playing time and also had it defaulted to him by injuries. * Wang was injured for a long time early this year and may still lack the conditioning from that time. At least, we should hope that is the case. It DOES typically take OL longer to "get it" than most other positions, so there is still hope. * Too bad David Nelson and Shawn Nelson are too injured to play. David surely earned more playing time and I don't know about Shawn. I was disappointed that he missed a lot of time this year to injury and suspension - he never really recovered from that (and his fumble late against (?). * Regarding Brohm, I don't think that you can consider sitting Fitzpatrick after that disasterous game unles you have ZERO thought of him being your starter next year. If there is any doubt at all that they will take a QB at #1, then Fitz HAS to start this game to try to rebuild some confidence (for him and his teammates). * Maybin and McCargo aren't even worth discussing other than hoping that the scouts who advocated drafting them are riding out of town on the same bus as them.

The Pats have also been the MASTERS at trading "this year's" round X pick for next year's round x-1 pick. That is, trade a 2nd this year for some team's 1st next year. They have 2 picks in each of the first 3 rounds this year. The extra first is from fleecing the Raider's first pick for an aging and injured Richard Seymour. I don't remember where the extra 2nd and 3rd came from, but it was likely from trading a 3rd last year for a 2nd this year and a 4th last year for a 3rd this year. Of course, that is easier to do when your team is already very good, but that's how it is done.

While I do agree that Fitzpatrick isn't an elite QB, I agree that the defense is SO woeful that almost every pick should be spent there again. The only LB on the roster that could start for a good Division 1 college team is Poz and maybe Moats. I have hope for Carrington at DE, but Stroud is miscast at DE and is past his illustrious prime. This team has ZERO pass rush and no identity on defense. They can't play the 3-4 that they want to play, yet still suck (just a little less) when they play 4-3. They can't stop the run to save their lives and with no pass rush they are wasting some talent in the defensive secondary. I know that there are better QBs that Fitzpatrick and I know that the team needs a RT, perhaps a LT, a good TE and maybe another WR, but for my money, I would try to build a solid defense and live with Fitzpatrick again next year at QB. I just don't see a QB worthy of a top 10 selection and that will improve the Bills. I LOVE Andrew Luck's game. I think he is the next great QB, but he will be long gone by the Bills' pick. I don't like Mallet - thinkhe has a great arm, but is missing those intangibles that Fitz has. Now, if you could take Mallet's physical tools and Fitz' mind, THEN you have a QB! I also am afraid of Cam Newton. I just feel that there is too big a chance that he is the next Vince Young to pick him that high when our defense is so abysmal. I wouldn't mind if they wanted to spend a middle round pick on a smart QB like Moore from Boise St, but realistically, those guys don't pan out very often either, so I'd rather spend the top 3 picks shoring up an embarassingly bad defense. Just my $.02 worth...

He is far more valuable to the Bills than the 3rd or 4th round pick that they might be able to get for him - unless they decide that he just isn't worth the big money that they'll have to pay him. Evan's trade value just isn't very high, so they are better off keeping him (IMHO).

I would certainly like to see Spiller earning more carries and be a target for a pass or two a game, but he really hasn't done poorly at all when he has gotten chances. 4.1 ypc is pretty respectable, especially behind an OL that has *maybe* one starting-calibre OT and has had a lot of injuries lately. I wouldn't write Spiller off yet, but I think there is cause for concern that he isn't getting many opportunities. That is usually a sign that the coaches don't like what they see in practices and meetings, however, I think it might be that Gailey is adament about making rookies earn their playing time over the vets. I think that is a good strategy for building good teamwork and will help the rookies be accountable and learn to work like a pro- an important lesson. I think that if Gailey had just tossed the rookies in ahead of vets that were better at the time (due to their advantage in experience), this team wouldn't be showing the fight that it has shown.

My opinion is that they need significant upgrades at: 1 OLB - I think Moats might be a starting caliber player, but nobody else on the roster should be starting in the NFL at OLB 1 ILB - There needs to be another good ILB next to Poz if they are staying w the 3-4. TE - There is ZERO threat from the Bills TEs. The D doesn't even need to cover them. OT - MAYBE Demetrius Bell can be an OK starter at LT or possibly RT, but they must find a good starter for the other T position. DE - Stroud may not be back next year and I'm not sure that he is playing that well anyway. Maybe Carrington can be one DE with Dwan Edwards on the other side. I can live with Fitz at QB next year, but I still haven't seen enough from him to believe that he is an upper-eschelon starting QB in the NFL. Maybe he'll continue to develop - he's the kind of guy that you want to pull for, but he may not have enough natural talent to be a top-flight starter.

My opinion only, but the challenge to scouting QBs is that most of the guys that look good in college are playing on great teams (because they were top recruits to begin with). Their OL is superior, their WRs are open by 5 yards instead of the few inches separation that Pro receivers often get, the run game that supports them is usually very good. Because of the above, you often can't get a good feel for how they read defenses, how quickly they can make decisions and go through their progressions. You can't tell if they have the mental game, etc.

Ah, I remember J.D. Williams too. Not a bad comparison really. I am still hopeful that McKelvin will continue to improve. He really has tremendous athletic ability and he isn't afraid to tackle even though he isn't that big. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but I think that he can be a good-very good starting NFL CB.

Leodis McKelvin has had his share of struggles, but I still see flashes of a good player in him. I do think that he is a tremendous athlete and that he tries hard. I think that he usually has good coverage, but doesn't seem to sense the ball in the air to make pass breakups - but there are decent/good CBs in the NFL that are the same way. I don't think that he'll ever be the star that they were hoping that he'd be when they picked him high in round 1, but he isn't awful either (but I admit that when he makes a mistake it is often a BIG mistake).

I don't understand why so many are attacking the original poster. You may not agree with his assessment that Fitzpatrick is too inaccurate, but the post was articluate and stated an opinion. I haven't completely made up my mind regarding Fitzpatrick, but I do think that he throws a lot of passes that aren't really where they should be. He has a lot that sail high and some are pretty wide of their target. That isn't to say that he never throws dead-on accurate passes (as he did to Johnson in the end zone in OT). Is Fitzpatrick the reason that they are losing this year? No. Is he the answer going forward? I don't know, but if he is, unless he improves his accuracy he will be at best the 3rd best QB in this 4 team division (behind Brady and Sanchez).

**MAYBE** on offense they aren't far away from respectability, but they are woeful on defense, particularly against the run. Perhaps 3 new LBs and hopefully the maturation and improvement of Troup and Carrington will be enough to get them to respectability on D. The pass rush is also abysmal, so at least one of the new LBs needs to have very good pass rushing skills.

True enough, but by being out there in the public eye with all sorts of PR appearances and calling attention to himself, he now has to suffer the results of a horrendous performance.

Stevie Johnson was terrible today. He personally lost the game by dropping a perfect pass that would have ended the game in OT. He also had 4 other drops, including one that went through his hands that Polamalu intercepted to end a Bills scoring threat. We might have witnessed the end of the miraculous run that Stevie had from nobody to somebody. I wonder if he has the mental toughness to recover from this disasterous game.

I love the effort, toughness and resiliency of this team. HOWEVER, they still have a SIGNIFICANT talent gap as compared to playoff-level teams. It is important and significant that they seem to have changed the player culture this year. In the offseason, they still have more holes to fill than can be reasonably expected, but they could be a .500 team next year with the right pieces added. I think that Troup and Carrington will be functional, solid additions to the D next year. I think the defensive backfield is already quite good. Big improvement on defense hinges on really improving the LB corp. They need at least 1 legitimate feared pass rusher at 1 OLB spot. The other OLB position needs an upgrade over Kelsay in terms of overall game. At ILB, it would be nice, though not imperative to have an upgrade over Andra Davis next to Poz. If they can accomplish those things, the D can be fair-to-midland. I'd love to believe in Fitzpatrick and I haven't completely formed my opinion yet, but he still looks like a top backup/low-end starting QB to me. Yes, he plays with heart, effort, leadership and intelligence, but he is not a very accurate passer and throws too many picks at very inopportune times. That being said, the players seem to really love playing with him and he is young enough to possibly continue developing into a good starting QB (still, hard to think he'll ever be more than the worst starting QB in the division with Brady and Sanchez likely always being well above him). The team NEEDS at least a decent TE. I wanted to believe in Shawn Nelson - and maybe you can write off his lack of contribution this year to injury/suspension, but he does not look like the answer, so far. Other teams boast TEs that make 4-5 catches a game and keep drives alive with important catches. Look at Dustin Keller in NY and Hernandez and Gronkowski in NE - imagine how much more effective Fitzpatrick could be with a dangerous weapon like those guys to go with Evans and Johnson. A functional RT is a must. All of these undrafted guys and rejects from other teams are not going to cut it at RT if this team hopes to be a playoff contender. If they can upgrade half or more of the above positions in the offseason, then they can show significant improvement next year.

Here I am and happily they won the game thanks to them trying and also thanks to an EPIC collapse by the Bengals. I don't know where you come off thinking that I am dead wrong, though. Yeah, the Bengals completely folded and the Bills were game enough to take advantage of that. Great and I am happy that they did. I am happy that they try hard and compete. I am happy that their coach has put some toughness into them. BUT, don't think that this is somehow a great team. All the flaws that were there going 0-8 are still there. Some are improving with experience (the OL, Troup and Carrington are at least playing on the DL now, Steve Johnson), but their run defense is still truly abysmal. Lindell's out of bounds kick and missed 30 yd FG attempt would have cost them the game against even a decent opponent. And, I love Fitzpatrick's story and heart, but I still am not sold on him being the answer at QB for the long-term. He is a gritty, smart, hard-working QB, but he can be wildly inaccurate. There have been a LOT of passes this year that defenders flat-out dropped that should have been INTs. Heck, he got very lucky in this game that an INT was called back due to a roughing the passer penalty. That could have ended the game right there as Cinci's lead could have been insurmountable. OK, flog me for venting my frustration, but don't come off like some smug know-it-alls that you guys all had this figured out and knew that they were going to win this game.

It takes real effort to F-up a franchise this bad. There should not be ANYONE left in the scouting department after this season. This team is so void of talent it is ridiculous. The only two 1st round picks that are good at all in the last many years are Lee Evans and Eric Wood. For those thinking that they should "build around Fitz", I think that he is showing why he is a tough overachieving career-backup. Even formerly good K Rian Lindell is now awful. How on earth do you kick the ball out of bounds with 1:17 left? That error gave Cincinatti 3 points and if the Bengals were worth a crap, they'd have scored 7. Way to just hand momentum right back to Cinci after a late score gave the Bills just a little hope. I've been a fan since the late 60s and while I admire the team's effort, they are just truly awful and might be the worst team I have seen in those 40 some years. Whew, I needed to vent that. I'll try to get back to being calm and rational now.

I absolutely agree. I don't think that the DL is bad, but the LB crew - especially the OLBs are all backup-caliber players. In the 3-4, the majority of the pass rush is coming from the OLBs and the Bills' weakness there is why they don't get pressure on the QB. (Yeah, I know that Bruce Smith had a LOT of sacks as a 3-4 DE, but he was a very very special player). Nothing against Torbor and Kelsay. I admire them for their effort, but they are not the dynamic pass-rushing athletes that the Bills need at OLB.