OldTimer1960

That is, no track record in producing NFL QBs. I think when you look at college coaches, you have to look at the talent that they are able to recruit at their university and judge how well they developed those players. Cal isn't going to be able to recruit the QB prospects that USC, Fla State, U of Miami etc are going to be able to get (IMHO).

OMG, Penn State was barely above .500 during his tenure - how could Houston "cheap out" and hire him???? (sarcasm - obviously Penn State's situation were a lead weight on the program)

Do you get leadership from your co-workrs? It is supposed to come from: 1.your intrinsic work-ethic/desire to succeed 2. Management 3. From there the examples set by co-workers If you, as an individual, are not pulling your weight - management can't do much about it other than threaten you with no-raise or termination... If you have a slacker co-worker, do you address the issue with him/her?

Chandler has proved to be an adequate receiving threat. The Bills need a true dynamic receiving threat who is "open when he is not". That player could be a WR or a TE, I don't think it matters. For what I expect Chandler to command on the FA market, I very much hope that the Bills can re-sign him. However, if he gets BIG money, then I don't think that they should match that kind of offer....

You need to stop it and realize that those who think that this is the greatest QB class ever know everything.

There are lots of guys in the NFL who have better size, arms - especially at this point - than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, yet they are the best QBs in the league (or certainly in the top 5). I should add Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers to the list of "not top" arms/size/athleticism who are doing well. I might argue that Jay Cutler has GREAT arm talent and very good size and athletic ability, yet he couldn't get the Bears to the playoffs with two OUTSTANDING WRs (Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffreies) and a very good RB (Matt Forte). Size and arm strength are entry level requirements to a point. Beyond that, there are many intangibles. I'd argue that EJ Manuel and Ryan Tannehiill have better size, arms and athletic ability than Manning and Brady, yet many here think they'll never do well...

Where did Marrone say this was a high priority need? I (choose to) interpret his comment to mean that they need a handful of guys whose life is special teams. I remember the "glory days" where Steve Tasker and Mark Pike were core special teams players. Tasker arguably could have played more at WR, but they valued his special teams contributions over that. I believe that there were others, including Beebe, who played primarily STs. I think the point was that there were some who were lackadaisical on STs - maybe because they thought they were going to make an impression on O or D. They may have most of the "core special teasers" on the roster - if they accept and embrace their role. So, maybe they should get one early to get up to speed. I think that Woods and Goodwin contributed this year, and I expect them to contribute more next year. However, they still don't have a true playmaker who can make the great catch 1-2 times a game and keep drives alive. If they can find a guy like that, even if it takes him a year or two to fully develop, then I'd love to see them take him early in round 1. I am don't know if EJ Manuel is THE answer, but I do know that he had 1 experienced WR and about 2 starts among the remaining WRs coming into this season. In terms of NFL receptions, outside of Stevie Johnson, there were about 35 catches on the remaining roster (at WR). What could you tell about the QB play with that?

He'd sell seats for 7-8 games, then not if they aren't winning - like all other prospects. Would the Bills be on TV more? Maybe, maybe not, but not long unless they are winning. Would he sell much? What would he sell? I doubt the team would get rich on his jersey sales.... He would be marketable for half a season and not after unless he was the "real deal" - and I am not sure they'll be able to tell without better WRs, TE and OL play. Would he be exciting? - Yes, for a while - a long while if he is winning, not long if he isn't....

Russel Wilson is also 27 y.o and light-years more mature than "Johnny Football". Wilson may also have a better arm. To be sure, I didn't expect Wilson to have a lot of success in the NFL due to his size, but with at GREAT defense and some good WRs with a very good run game, he is excelling. I was turned-off by Manziel's "leadership" on the sidelines last night. Now, I recognize that maybe I am wrong and his teammates may have been completely motivated, but I wonder how that goes over with NFL players. I have also seen him throw up "hope for a miracle" balloons and that will certainly not fly in the NFL. I will grant that he is definitely elusive and has a decent arm with a very quick release. I do very much wonder how he'll handle adversity in the NFL and I suspect that off-field issues may de-rail him in the "league".

Not against NFL talent or even SEC talent (well not even much better than MAC talent). He may be a big-time NFL prospect, but his level of competition is pretty low and, I would think, that Univ Central Florida can recruit better athletes than others in their conference.

+1 You can't evaluate a qb without some talent around him.

And Bridgewater will get picked apart in pre-draft analysis due to is small stature. Manuel is close to 240 lbs, Bridgewater might be 210 and is not supposed to be any better runner than Manuel. Don't get me wrong, I liked what I saw of Bridgewater, but he isn't John Elway, Peyton Manning, or even Cam Newton...

I don't think the Phins will pick another QB. I think Tannehill has shown the possibility of being a very good QB, so I believe they will try to shore up the OL to help him have a chance for success rather than take another QB who will also be saddled with a poor OL - and - both QBs getting fewer reps in training camp since there will be two fighting for the starting job. I am pretty sure that there would be some teams that would be happy to take Ryan Tannehill off their hands if they want to kick him to the curb.

But if you keep giving up on QBs after one year where they didn't earn Hall Of Fame credentials, how will you ever know if you have a QB that will be very good? Further by spending multiple high picks on QBs,, you are not spending those picks on players that can help a QB to succeed - WRs, RBs, OL...

Flutist isn't a very good example. He didn't exactly do much in the NFL. I was thinking just the opposite - that NFL players might grow tired of that very quickly and tell him to STFU. There were players on his own team that seemed annoyed with that "leadership" - of course I don't really know what they thought of that...

What was said that made you think that?

If they go this way, they need to get a play making WR in FA. While I think Woods is going to be pretty good, Stevie is only above average. This WR group doesn't compare well with most in the NFL and there is no true play maker that makes big catches at the big times in games. Compare this group to Chicago'a for instance. Both Marshall and Jeffries are big-time and make a couple of spectacular catches seemingly every game the Bills do not get that from any of their WRs, though Woods does have good hands.

I agree, coaches today don't have the luxury of losing for even 3 years, unless there is obvious progress being made. I am not completely sure that I agree with this approach, but it is what is happening. That said, I don't think you can run through more than a couple of young QBs in 3 years and have much idea what you have. I think 2 years for a young QB isn't always enough, yet if in year 3 the QB hasn't really righted the ship (or there isn't enough talent around him for him to do so), then the coach likely won't survive to see year 4. At any rate, I can see the merit if the Bills want to hedge their bet on Manuel by taking a QB that they think has a chance to be good in the 2nd-4th round area. However, I think they still need to give Manuel another full year to show good progress. Heck, I don't think he was bad this year. He wasn't immediately great, but he wasn't awful except against Pittsburgh and Tampa.

I don't see any of these "immediately successful" QBs on the list of SB winners above. I don't debate that there are young QBs having very good success including Wilson, Kaepernick, Dalton and I'll include Robert Griffin 3. However, that does not mean that there no longer are QBs who aren't immediately very good in the NFL but will get there with some experience.

OK, I'll give you Colin Kaepernick (who by the way needed a year in SF before playing much) and Russell Wilson - neither of whom were slam-dunks to have the success that they have. Who besides them, should the Bills have drafted (that was available at their pick) over the last 7 years? Maybe Nick Foles or Andy Dalton, but I don't recall them passing many great QBs by... This is a sensible approach. I'd also add that you don't run the guy you have out of town instantaneously just because he isn't lighting the world on fire after year 1.

I am not seeing the trend for these new great QBs winning SBs, the last 10 SB winning QBs were: Joe Flacco - good, not great IMHO Eli Manning - good, not great Aaron Rodgers - great Drew Brees - great Ben Roethlisberger - good Peyton Manning - "great" (yet he has won only 1 SB) Ben Roethlisberger - good Tom Brady - great Tom Brady - great Brad Johnson - journeyman If you agree with my classifications, then 5 of the last 10 SBs were won by "great" QBs. The remainder were no doubt good, but not great in my opinion (except for Brad Johnson). BTW, I appreciate your well-written, well-thought out posts. I very much appreciate that the general tone of your posts is polite also.

I won't disagree there, but as you say, you can win multiple Super Bowls with a game manager and great defense, as long as you give the game manager some outstanding weapons.

Pretty strong opinion on someone who is only in his 3rd year in the NFL. What do you base the opinion that he's not good enough to get Cinci over the hump on? Is it his arm strength?

Troy Aikman threw 31 TDs and 46 INTS in his first 3 years in Dallas. They clearly should have given up on him!

Very good analogy! BTW - all Jerry Sullivan articles are poorly written, in my opinion!