OldTimer1960

That leadership from the veterans is not an accident either. The front office and coaches constructed the roster with the personality types that would lead to that. They did not bring in talented, but underachieving guys.

At this point Geno has 8 TDs and 16 INTs. I don't know if he will be a good NFL starter, but that is an inauspicious start... EJ Manuel has what, 8 TDs and 4 INTs? Again, I don't know which, either or both will be good long-term starting NFL QBs, but I can tell you who has better stats right now...

OK, no problem. I was bummed last week, too, but EJ is a rookie who will have good and bad games. Geno Smith was FAR worse today than EJ was last week. What was Geno's stat line? Something like 3 INTs and 2 fumbles?

20-28 with a 20 point victory isn't good? If EJ's stats "sucked" then your expectations are WAY off, man.

He deserves to get paid (as Levitre did, but how much?) - the question is how much to match the impact. Byrd has stated a compelling case for a big pay-day.

With the Bills for all practical matters out of playoff contention, the remainder of this season is focused on player growth and evaluation (as it really was from the beginning). As we watch and discuss the players throughout this, I hope that people will notice that no player's performance is divorced from those who are playing with him and those playing against him. RBs depend on their OL to open holes for them, but those holes are much more difficult to open if the passing game doesn't provide a credible threat. Likewise, the passing game is affected if the running game isn't working well. The passing game is dependent on the QB making good decisions and passing accurately, the receivers getting open and making catches and none of that happens unless the OL provides enough time for the pass routes to develop and the QB to make his reads and get accurate passes off. Further, the quality of the opposition certainly has an impact on the success of the offense. Coaching schemes, penalties, game situations, turnovers etc, all have effects on how well an individual player appears to perform. The above can also be turned around and is true for the defense and the individual players on that side of the ball. One other consideration is that very few players come into the NFL as rookies ready to excel immediately. It is easy to get frustrated as fans watching young players who are "trying to figure it out", but those players need to learn by experience. Of course, that isn't to say that you can't get a sense for whether a given player will grow into a good player or not, but it isn't always obvious who will and who won't. At any rate, as we watch the remainder of the season and focus on EJ Manuel's (and other's) play, try to consider that he is a rookie who missed a significant amount of training camp with injury, missed 4 regular season games with injury has only 1 experienced good (not great) veteran WR, an solid but not spectacular TE and a decent to above average OL that he is playing with.

How about these two stat lines from last week for two far more experienced QBs whom everyone would salivate over having: 1 TD, 3 INTs, 1 Fumble Lost, 9 8 total points scored by offense - Andrew Luck ((has started 26 games, EJ what 5?) 11-22 91 total yards, team offensive output 9 points in loss - Colin Kaepernick (I think this is his 3rd year and he's started something like 18 games right?) Not saying EJ is or is not as good as either of these guys. I AM saying that young QBs have their ups and downs. EJ has started very few games, missed half the preseason and has for the most part rookie WRs. I don't know if he will be great, good, mediocre or horrible, but nobody will have enough information for a year or two to know that.

I respectfully disagree. How would you feel going to work and busting your butt every day while a co-worker didn't put in effort and take the job seriously? Most people can't ignore that and it eventually creates bad feelings with the rest of the workers. Some (many?) will eventually figure they can reduce their effort if the boss isn't making the other guy work or getting rid of the other guy.

I think the point of cutting him was more to not let what they perceived as a poor work ethic/attitude infect the rest of the team. I suspect that they also believed he was plenty talented, but could not risk undermining the culture of effort, dedication, professionalism and team work that they are trying to build.

I disagree with the Geno Smith point. Smith has 8 TDs and 13 INTs while EJ has 5TDs and 4 INTs. I understand that Geno has had a good game or two, but overall, EJ has outplayed him this year - for whatever that is worth...

OK, Christian Ponder was a 1st round pick and EJ has generally out-played him. I think I could probably find more... Oh yeah, Brandon Wheedon was also a 1st round pick... Why do you say this? The guy averaged 6+ ypc last year and has clearly been injured this year with a high-ankle sprain. Yes, he takes a lot of runs wide and gains little, however if there were remotely a passing game, these runs may work... Offense (and defense) are systems that are undermined by their weakest links....

Was it not windy for the QBs too? Especially with the young (inexperienced and not-so-good) WRs? I am as concerned with EJ's performance as anyone, but he is young, hasn't played in a month and has no great receivers...

Well, this is the balanced sane view, I would like to think I am there with you. But man, that was a BRUTAL game from EJ. He was terrible. I am willing to attribute this one game to rust, but if he looks half of this bad next week, I will be thinking that they might've missed on him. It wasn't just that they lost, but he was slow and mechanical, didn't seem to be processing the defense quickly at all and his passes were, for the most part, well off the mark. I know that he isn't helped by an inexperienced receiver group that isn't extremely talented on top of it, but gosh that was bad. Pittsburgh clearly didn't believe that he could hurt them through the air and they sold out to ground the run game. Manuel could not make them pay. I will cling to the hope that this was a rookie QB who hasn't played much, has missed the last 4 games due to injury and was rusty, was missing his favorite WR (Woods) and was outmatched by a great veteran DC in Lebeau, but I really wasn't enthused by what I saw from EJ.

I really think that they can lose the rest of their games and be in position for another QB. Of course, by then the defense will be completely demoralized and will need reinforcements, too.

And the search for an NFL QB continues...

Pit is better than their record??? They gave up 55 points last week to Tom Brady and his band of no-name receivers. This team still lacks talent at several positions. You can't run the ball if there is no threat of a pass and Manuel hasn't shown anything to be excited about and the receiving corp is very weak other than SJ (with Woods out).

Game over. This team is awful

HOW CAN THAT HAPPEN? AWFUL!

I have been holding out hope that it wasn't true, but this really IS the same old Bills.

All the good feelings from the team hanging in with so many injuries through the first half of the season are fading away. Really starting to look like a team that isn't very good.

Gonna be a long second half of the season. Not that the first half was a joy ride...

I expected a lot of rust from EJ Manuel and that is exactly what we saw. Pittsburgh is selling out against the run and daring the Bills to pass. In order to get any run game going, they are going to have to hit some passes on first down. I just hope that it is more rust rather than that EJ is as inaccurate as he was in the first half. It doesn't help to have no decent receivers besides SJ

So much angst over that 7th round pick that they used to trade up. He was a raw 3rd round pick. He has been better this year, but I can't say I see him yet as a long term starter. He may develop or not - that isn't uncommon for 3rd rounders.

I have to ask who exactly they should have picked up once Kolb was injured? It is too easy to say "They should have had a veteran backup". Yes, great. They signed Kevin Kolb to be that guy. Kolb was injured and who was available?

Ugh, now Goodwin limping off the field... HOW MANY INJURIES CAN ONE TEAM HAVE???