OldTimer1960

I don't see any of these "immediately successful" QBs on the list of SB winners above. I don't debate that there are young QBs having very good success including Wilson, Kaepernick, Dalton and I'll include Robert Griffin 3. However, that does not mean that there no longer are QBs who aren't immediately very good in the NFL but will get there with some experience.

OK, I'll give you Colin Kaepernick (who by the way needed a year in SF before playing much) and Russell Wilson - neither of whom were slam-dunks to have the success that they have. Who besides them, should the Bills have drafted (that was available at their pick) over the last 7 years? Maybe Nick Foles or Andy Dalton, but I don't recall them passing many great QBs by... This is a sensible approach. I'd also add that you don't run the guy you have out of town instantaneously just because he isn't lighting the world on fire after year 1.

I am not seeing the trend for these new great QBs winning SBs, the last 10 SB winning QBs were: Joe Flacco - good, not great IMHO Eli Manning - good, not great Aaron Rodgers - great Drew Brees - great Ben Roethlisberger - good Peyton Manning - "great" (yet he has won only 1 SB) Ben Roethlisberger - good Tom Brady - great Tom Brady - great Brad Johnson - journeyman If you agree with my classifications, then 5 of the last 10 SBs were won by "great" QBs. The remainder were no doubt good, but not great in my opinion (except for Brad Johnson). BTW, I appreciate your well-written, well-thought out posts. I very much appreciate that the general tone of your posts is polite also.

I won't disagree there, but as you say, you can win multiple Super Bowls with a game manager and great defense, as long as you give the game manager some outstanding weapons.

Pretty strong opinion on someone who is only in his 3rd year in the NFL. What do you base the opinion that he's not good enough to get Cinci over the hump on? Is it his arm strength?

Troy Aikman threw 31 TDs and 46 INTS in his first 3 years in Dallas. They clearly should have given up on him!

Very good analogy! BTW - all Jerry Sullivan articles are poorly written, in my opinion!

ANOTHER WR? What great WRs does this team already have? I believe that Robert Woods will develop into a good starting WR and I think that Marquise Goodwin may become a decent contributing WR. I think that Stevie Johnson is an average-to-above-average WR, but certainly isn't a "go-to playmaker". As the roster stands with the current level of experience (ie, at this time in Woods' and Goodwins' careers), I would speculate that the Bills WR group is in the bottom 25% of the NFL.

But, but, but I don't like that reality. Surely there are 5 or 6 Hall of Fame QBs in every draft - in particular ones that will be immediately great in the NFL, it must just be that the Bills decided not to take one. (That was sarcasm in case it didn't come through well).

Now there you go talking all logical and such. Don't you know that all rookies are already as good as they will ever be? Especially dem dere QBs who play that simple position!

How is it "on the coaches"? Isn't it all up to Dareus to be a professional? Another post suggested that it was Kyle And Mario Williams' responsibility - what are they supposed to do beyond encourage him to be on time? If he doesn't take responsibility himself, his teammates and coaches can't do much about it.

Such genius - all they have to do is find another Peyton Manning - it is all SO clear now! Why didn't they think of that before???

The run defense wash't really any better in the 2nd half with "The Late One" in there.

Well to start with, I gave Crossman a pass early in the year when many special team players were forced to play significant roles on defense due to injuries, but the "teams" didn't get any better once the injuries healed and they cost the Bills significantly several times. Where oh where is Bobby April? Defensively, they had a lot of sacks, but I suspect that many of them were a result of LBs playing too close to the DL and rushing the passer first and foremost. This can lead to BIG runs as we saw every week.

Absolutely awful. Blount hasn't had this many yards in any 3 GAMES yet the Bills pathetic run defense makes yet another backup running back look like an All-Pro. Don't get me wrong, Pettine has been an improvement over recent DCs, but talk of him being spirited away to become a HC is laughable.

Not to defend Graham, but he jumped because the ball was behind him and he couldn't stop on the wet field. Bad pass, poor catch attempt... Anyone who doesn't think this team needs WR help is wrong (IMHO). The Bills' WR group is in the bottom 5 in the NFL. Now, I'll qualify that and say that Woods and Goodwin have some upside, but Stevie is nothing special on any other team and Graham, Easley, Hogan, etc are no help at all.

Marrone should be lauded for sitting Dareus. He can't be bothered to try, so he should sit. I think he is too talented to cut and that off-sides was a mental mistake due to desire to make a play, but still inexcusable.

It's the "I quit Bowl". I will say that I defended Marrone's choice of an experienced special teams coach who has put bad units on the field, but this guy clearly needs to go. Special Teams have cost Bills dearly this year.

Good night, soon to be 20-3

Remind me again why there is a thread every few weeks worrying that the Bills will lose Mike Pettine to a HC job? NE has exceeded their weekly rushing average in less that 1/3 of the game - when the conditions clearly dictate that passing will be difficult? I understand selling out against the pass to force someone other than Tom Brady to beat you, but it is so wet, I think you have to play the run some and make them beat you passing - clearly they are B*tch slapping the Bills current defense in the run game.

Surely the other 52 players on the roster and coaching have SOMETHING to do with whether a team makes the playoffs. It isn't COMPLETELY about the QB solely taking a team to the playoffs. By your stated algorithm, the following QBs would either be on the hot-seat next year or out: Matt Ryan Matt Stafford RG3 Eli Manning Ben Roethlisberger Phillip Rivers Sam Bradford Possibly: Tony Romo, Joe Flacco, Ryan Tannehill, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Nick Foles Young guys on a very short leash: Jake Locker (by your definition out already after 2 years), Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, EJ Manuel BTW: Playoff QB Alex Smith would have been long out of the league by now - his first 3 years he threw 19 TDs and 31 INTs. Brett Favre didn't lead his team to the playoffs in either of his first 2 years - and ATL gave up on him after 1 year. In Favre's 3rd year the threw 19TDs and 24 INTs - GB made the playoffs as a wild card in spite of him rather than because of him. My point is that I think you have to have more patience with young QBs than you suggest. Also, I strongly believe that while QB is the most important position, it isn't the ONLY position that contributes to team success. Almost every QB needs a supporting cast to play well. I'll grant that Tom Brady is doing a great job elevating a weak supporting cast, but almost nobody else could have done that in his position. I am pretty sure that the Falcons regret giving up on Brett Favre after 1 year...

Agreed to some extent. They invite players to the combine who have shown some productivity at the collegiate level, but that productivity comes against varied levels of competition with varied levels of talent to work with on their own team, under different schemes, etc. However, every year there are "combine stars" that get drafted higher than their college productivity suggests that they should - that is "upside"

That is only partially true. The NFL COMBINE is all about who has physical skills, but still have "upside". Upside can include: physical skills that can be developed with refined technique, further strength development, coaching on "the mental aspects", etc.

You will have to wait/be patient with any of the young QBs in this draft - really with almost ANY rookie QB. It is truly rare for a college QB to walk into the NFL and be a very good player immediately.

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread, but is it shocking that the Defense improved after playing the first several games under a new coaching staff AND having been missing almost all of their starting secondary for the first 5-6 games?