OldTimer1960

mediocre - of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; Maybe you should call your old teacher and tell him he was wrong.

I think you are waaaaay too harsh here. First, the guy is a professional athlete - that is 1,000x more than you or I (or most of us on this message board) could do. Next, you have NO IDEA how hard he played and whether he had heart. Now, you can take issue with his running style, particularly trying to bounce everything wide, but I do not think that in any way equates to playing "weak".

Excellent insights!

What does Doug Williams have to do with Tyrod Taylor?

Stop - he got a few sniffs form the NFL years ago. He wasn't good enough then, now he is old too

In Bower's case, the combine physical showed a significant physical problem (I think it was a knee). Clausen is a pretty good example of the "hype" from draft experts not correlating to what NFL teams think of a player. To be fair to NFL scouts, GMs and even draft "analysts", scouting is very difficult. "Tape doesn't lie" is too simplistic because teams need to take into consideration how other factors affected how a player played on tape including, but not limited to: 1. Level of competittion - How do you compare a player who played mostly SEC competition against a player who played in the MAC or other lower level league? 2. Talent around the player - Does the player have other great players on his team that divide the oppostions attention and allow the player to look better than he is? This can also go the other way - if there are many other great players on the same team, it could limit a player's opportunities to shine. 3. Scheme - Does the scheme that a player plays in highlight his strengths and hide weaknesses that could be exploited at the NFL level? Alternatively, does the scheme not highlight a player and thus make a him not look as good as he could be? Other factors that have to go into player rankings include: 1. Growth potential - Can the player get physically stronger/faster or is he already max-ed out? Can the player improve with better coaching and more experience? 2. Injury factors - Is there a significant injury or condition that (isn't widely known) might make the player more prone to injury in the NFL? 3. Character Issues 3a How bad does a guy want it? How hard will he work at the next level? This is VERY difficult to project 3b Is the guy at risk for missing time/not being productive due to off-field issues (drugs, crimes, etc)? 3c How good of a teammate will the guy be (think Jay Cutler - terrific talent, but some say not a good teammate). 4. How good of a fit will he be for what you need? - Does he play a position of great need? Does his skill-set match what you need/want at the position? For example, some teams want smaller faster LBs and others want bigger guys and will trade off speed/agility to get the size. Some teams want super-sized powerful drive blocking OGs while others are happier with smaller (they still aren't really small) guys with more agility because they need them to pull and also need them to engage LBs at the second level of the defense. With QBs there are even more things to consider: 1. How quickly can he see the field and process what he sees? This might be the most difficult thing to assess when rating QBs and is almost surely the most important - much more important than having a cannon for an arm. 1a. Can he make good risk-benefit decisions almost instantaneously? Do you go for the big play to the guy that is being covered well or do you take the lower risk/lower return play to the safety-valve? 2. Has he demonstrated the ability to throw into tight spots against top competition? Most great QBs in college are also on very good teams - often times they have outstanding Offensive lines that give them all day to choose which of their wide-open receivers to throw to. For sure, they won't have that much time and receivers won't that that open in the NFL I am sure that there are many other things to consider when rating players, but just considering the above, it should be pretty clear that scouting is hard and different teams will have different ratings based on needs, schemes/preferences and organizational risk taking profile.

Not to be too argumentative as I haven't really watched Poe play much in the NFL, but weren't the Bills an awful run D a few years ago and they had Marcel Dareus and Kyle Williams. My point is that it is *possible* that Poe was doing his job tying up blockers, but his teammates weren't capable of holding up their end. Agreed. Once in a while, one of the "experts" is offered a job. Russ Lande used to publish "GM Jr" draft guide, now he is chief scout (maybe GM?) of the Montreal Alouettes of the CFL. Lande might not be a great example because he actually was a scout in the NFL prior to doing his draft guides, but still he was likely offered the Montreal job based on his work as a draft analyst rather than his scouting background from years earlier.

You know this how? That is, IF they were run under same conditions as combine

Thanks, but NEEDING a QB and there Being a DECENT prospect available in rounds 2 or later are two VERY different things. Wasting a 2nd or 3rd round pick on another questionable QB prospect doesn't help get this team closer to contention.

This is a great thread! My view is that Thurman Thomas was a great player - Hall of Fame caliber. But, he played with MANY more weapons than Simpson did. As I said earlier, the only guys that I've actually seen play that could compare with Simpson were Dickerson, Earl Campbell and Barry Sanders. Based on records and highlights that I've seen, Jim Brown and Gayle Sayers were in that group, too. Finally, Walter Peyton probably belongs on that list, too. Everyone else was a notch below these guys.

On the flip side, because of the heavier emphasis on passing today, the field is more spread out - more space for RBs when they do run.

I am not sure that kaepernick is above average himself

Yes Kenny Davis belongs in the top 10 somewhere, too. Jim Braxton was the FB when Simpson was here and he was a very good runner for a FB I recall very well watching Simpson play. In my estimation, only Barry Sanders, Erik Dickerson and Earl Campbell were as unstoppable.

So why are the Skins considering trading this great QB that they traded a bounty of high draft picks for?

The truth is that Washington has had him and doesn't want him in spite of what they paid for him. I truly believe that if Washington thought that there was even a 20% chance that he could recover and be a top 15 NFL QB, they wouldn't even be considering trading him.

You guy's should be ashamed for posting such garbage - especially the comment about hoping he was down and out. Just awful.

Do you mean this (below)? I can't imagine that being overly negative. I guess I should just take the tongue lashing that you have given me and be quiet until I come to the conclusion that the Bills' really obviously do have a very good QB situation and they ought to be considered favorites to win the Super Bowl. Now now, I didn't criticize any of therir acquisitions, indeed I have been a consistent supporter of Whaley and even Buddy Nix. Together, they have put together a very talented roster. I also am realistic enough to know that finding a good QB is damn hard and I honestly can't point to one that they really have had an opportunity to acquire and blew it. Some may argue that Russell Wilson is that guy, but it sure wasn't obvious to me at that time that he would become a good pro. However, the reality is that the pass receiving weapons are going to significantly hand-cuffed by the QB play. I really believe that the Bills' best hope is that the light comes on for Manuel because Matt Cassell has had a long career in which to prove that he is even a middle of the pack NFL starter and he has not done so. He is now several years removed from his very good season with KC and I think that believing that he can revert to that form is just hoping and wishing. I really am not one of the more negative posters here. I do think that a team with this much talent could sneak into the playoffs, but without at least decent QB play, they are not a threat to go far in the playoffs.

Thank you. I don't know what I was saying that could be interpreted as being as negative as John was treating it.

Please go back up thread and see my reply. I've been here a long while and I am not one of the more negative posters. I do think that unless the Bills can get at least average to good QB play, that the rest of the team could be held back by that. I am not blaming the Bills for not having a better answer at QB, because I know those are very hard to find. Look, I get that they've pursued a plan to beef up around the QB to hide that weakness and I applaud them for that, but to pretend that won't have a negative effect on the team's performance is not realistic, in my opinion.

Now now, I didn't criticize any of therir acquisitions, indeed I have been a consistent supporter of Whaley and even Buddy Nix. Together, they have put together a very talented roster. I also am realistic enough to know that finding a good QB is damn hard and I honestly can't point to one that they really have had an opportunity to acquire and blew it. Some may argue that Russell Wilson is that guy, but it sure wasn't obvious to me at that time that he would become a good pro. However, the reality is that the pass receiving weapons are going to significantly hand-cuffed by the QB play. I really believe that the Bills' best hope is that the light comes on for Manuel because Matt Cassell has had a long career in which to prove that he is even a middle of the pack NFL starter and he has not done so. He is now several years removed from his very good season with KC and I think that believing that he can revert to that form is just hoping and wishing. I really am not one of the more negative posters here. I do think that a team with this much talent could sneak into the playoffs, but without at least decent QB play, they are not a threat to go far in the playoffs.

How? They don't really need to worry about any of the pass catchers with Cassell/Manuel/Taylor at QB.

Given the Bills' now very precarious situation at TE, I'd seriously consider dropping pursuit of Clay to sign Jermaine Gresham. He is a competent NFL starting TE who had 62 catches last year and is a good blocker. I would rather get that done than gamble that they can get Clay after waiting Miami out for a week. Pursuing Clay could leave them completely empty handed and Gresham would be a solid signing (IMHO)

I wouldn't say that Favre was an unknown when GB traded for him. Atlanta had taken him in the early 2nd round (33rd overall) and had just finished his rookie year when GB traded for him.

So what FA guards are you hoping that they sign?

I don't fault their plan, because good QBs are very hard to find, but there won't be much winning beyond the 1st round of the playoffs with any of the QBs on the roster. A lot. I am not trying to be a downer, there just are not more than a very few NFL OL that are 35 years old.