Rob's House

WRT Evans, I'm not interested in your facts. WRT the rest, I think we'll get along better if you just agree with me. It's lamb basted, dumbass.

It's not hindsight when so many people were calling for it during the 2014 off-season. If we'd taken OBJ or Mike Evans with our 1st we could have traded up in the top of the 2nd to snatch Carr. You don't have to give up on EJ in that scenario. He could still play that season with Carr riding the pine his rookie year. Then if EJ still didn't look good you've got a promising young prospect with a year in the system.

RG3 Sucks at playing NFL QB. Playing in the pocket he makes EJ look like Tom Brady. His success is necessarily reliant on his ability to use his legs to survive in a simplified one read offense. Not only have defenses learned to better defend the read option system that gave him success, he refuses to run that offense - presumably because it's only a matter of time before he takes another major injury that way. I hope he saved some money; this is going to be a short ride.

We could have gotten Carr and our choice of OBJ, Mike Williams, or Kelvin Benjamin. Instead the smartest man in football doubled down on a very iffy prospect and burned 2 1sts and a 4th for a WR in the deepest WR class in years.

For the purpose of this I was starting with when he officially took over, but overall I start with the 2013 off-season, which would give him credit for Hughes, which he probably deserves. Of course, that also puts EJ on him. To be fair, I'm being a little hard on him because I think he's grossly overrated by the fan base. I don't think he's been awful, but I don't think he's been good either. He gets a lot of love for making splashy moves that feel like a welcome departure from the past, but a lot of what he does is foolish and irresponsible and we tend to give him a pass.

The only really stellar move I've seen since Whaley's been here is Darby. He's had a few other nice moves, but that's the only one that really stands out. That one looks like a Rex influenced pick, but we'll let Whaley have it.

As far as 2013, I don't think it's awful because at least we still have something to show for it, but to put it into perspective, do you think anyone would trade a top 10 pick for Manuel & a 28 yr old McCoy with a big contract?

Perhaps, but Orton came in week 5 with a 2-2 record, and you can't read too much in to the first 2-3 weeks of the season. In both seasons we were 3-2. From that point on last year we had Orton starting. From that point this year we've had EJ. If Orton goes out after week 5 and EJ comes in it's hard to say how that plays out. It'll be interesting to see how we fare when TT comes back. And let's be honest, he's had some great moments, but we still don't really know what we have in Taylor.

I want to know this too. I don't buy into the theory that the league fixes games, but I don't think it's crazy to wonder if this ref's on someone's payroll. It's as bad a call as I've ever seen. Maybe worse that the Russell Wilson pick ruled a TD against GB.

Last year we had a serviceable NFL QB.

Denver's 6-0. What the hell are you talking about?

I don't necessarily disagree that Rex may be the problem, but to be fair Rex has gone to AFC championship games with Mark Sanchez at QB. What has Whaley ever done?

You can recognize both the team's shortcomings and bad officiating. It's a simple mind that thinks the two are mutually exclusive.

As the team inevitably proves itself to be a disappointment and the playoffs become unobtainable, watching the game becomes less of a priority. I've never regretted missing a loss, but I've regretted watching a few of them.

I'd say that's fair. I'd also say that's not very good value. Kiko had some talent, but I think he'd be a poor value for a first round pick (especially a top 10) and EJ's value doesn't add much to the equation. That's a fairly odd standard to judge by.

That's not quite how I worded it, but when he decided he was "all in" on Manuel and continued to go under the assumption that Manuel was his franchise guy after it appeared unlikely. He may not have forced him as the starter this year, but he apparently found a way to force him into the #2 spot. And when the only QB competition we've brought in since are a last minute panic signing of Orton, a guy we just traded for a bag of chips, and a 6th round back up (who God willing will work out) it appears to me that he's been operating under the assumption that Manuel is a viable option.

To me it's not a matter of how good Cassel is but with Whaley's continued willingness to let the team's fate ride on Manuel's arm. No offense taken. I can't prove it, but it's the only scenario I can think of that makes sense. The coaching staff obviously preferred Cassel to Manuel because they dressed him and not Manuel. And the compensation was minimal at best - They didn't even get a 5th so much as they upgraded a 7th to a 5th because they sent Cassel and a 7th for the 5th. And it was a 2017 pick. So what was the point? Nothing else makes sense.

Yes, I did.

That's the point. He couldn't set the depth chart so the only way he could get Manuel to #2 was to get Cassel out of there.

I don't believe for a second that was Whaley's preference and I think Whaley got Cassel out of there for the purpose of getting EJ to #2 on the depth chart. The fact that he was trying to push Manuel on prospective coaches as the starter is disconcerting also. It's not any one move, but rather the pattern of behavior that makes the conclusion fairly easy to draw.

I posted this in another thread but I think it's more pertinent to this one: Honestly, I'm not even that down on Manuel right now. He's who I thought he was: a guy who struggles with consistency. Yes, he played an atrocious second half, and his final drive was sorry, but he played pretty well for most of the second half. He's a mediocre NFL QB. The real problem is Whaley for trying to wish him into being something he isn't. If he were a developmental mid-rounder backing up a reliable pocket passer he'd be fine. But it's clear that far too much has been invested in him and we have relied far too heavily on him long after it became obvious to all but the most dedicated fanboy (and Whaley) that his ceiling was limited and his likelihood of hitting it scarce. We saw today why two consecutive coaching staffs have gone in a different direction despite limited alternatives. Yet Whaley can't let it go. That's why the Cassel trade is so telling - It's less about the the prowess of Cassel and more about the continued willingness to bet the team's success on Manuel. The fact that it was against the wishes of the coaching staff compounds the problem.

Honestly, I'm not even that down on Manuel right now. He's who I thought he was: a guy who struggles with consistency. Yes, he played an atrocious first half, and his final drive was sorry, but he played pretty well for most of the second half. He's a mediocre NFL QB. The real problem is Whaley for trying to wish him into being something he isn't. If he were a developmental mid-rounder backing up a reliable pocket passer he'd be fine. But it's clear that far too much has been invested in him and we have relied far too heavily on him long after it became obvious to all but the most dedicated fanboy (and Whaley) that his ceiling was limited and his likelihood of hitting it scarce. We saw today why two consecutive coaching staffs have gone in a different direction despite limited alternatives. Yet Whaley can't let it go. That's why the Cassel trade is so telling - It's less about the the prowess of Cassel and more about the continued willingness to bet the team's success on Manuel. The fact that it was against the wishes of the coaching staff compounds the problem.

I'm wondering if there wasn't something to Timmah's report about him going rogue with Fred Jackson. We scoffed at it because he apparently had the approval of Terry and Kim Snyder, but perhaps he did it without the approval of the coaching staff. I could see someone close to the coaching staff describing that as going rogue.

He also passed on Derek Carr. At some point we might regret passing on Bridgewater too.

It matters not. Once Whaley went "all in" on EJ he may as well have drafted him. Desperately, pathetically, and stupidly clinging to the belief that EJ was going to be the guy was far more destructive than the pick itself.