NoSaint

skewing back on topic - Kenny Smith just walked off the inside the nba set in support. will be interesting to see how the nba responds and how far this stretches into other sports as well as related fields

how broadly do you extend the right to shoot based on this video? Or is it still a very high threshold that unfortunately comes with risk?

I suppose no one is always an overstatement. No one here in these conversations was what I meant. And specifically was getting at idolizing behaving as they did. but yes, you brought an article with quotes from his friends and family talking positively about him while also acknowledging his checkered past in it. crazy enough, few of these dead guys are simple pure devils and they, alongside bad choices, also make good ones and make some people happy. I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone saying we should aspire to live life exactly like George lived his, even if you find some folks that have personal affection for him or that in push back against his demonization also try to share the other side of the human.

to be fair, you kind of changed the goal line a bit bringing it back to solely this case, from your earlier post that implied a general running from police. It might have been unintentional but each of us responded reading it as a broad statement.

no one is exalting Floyd or Blake neither seem like great guys. that doesn’t mean there’s a free pass on anything anyone does to them.

If that’s your takeaway to saying we shouldn’t shoot people for running away than I’ll echo previous sentiments that you are a bad person. And I’ll consider that being nice to you based on what I really think of responses like that.

yes. unless they are an immediate threat I do not believe they should be shot. I think there are very few if any exceptions. I accept that more may get away, and other crimes may be committed as a result. That does not change the opinion. do you think that simply running away should be cause to shoot?

and sometimes, call me crazy, but that’s ok.

not to be rude but it’s not particularly interesting. this one I have been slow to condemn as I haven’t had time to deep dive the nuance of it and still looks to be thin on facts so I don’t feel the need to rush but ultimately your thread comes down to this question: are you comfortable with officers shooting to kill anytime they perceive that someone could be reaching towards a weapon? think long and hard about whether in a nervous state or after a couple drinks you might clumsily reach to grab something proactively? While thinking about it, also consider that some people are a lot more likely to be considered a threat when making the same flub because of reasons other than their behavior. wonder about whether a 35 year old white woman walking away from police is likely to be shot here, as opposed to the black man that just was.

We can’t all be as enlightened as you, luckily.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/kyle-rittenhouse-is-a-patriot-god-bless-him.1853096/ as an example? I just googled and it was one that popped up

but when you can shoot for any unknown you can shoot at nearly any time no matter what. That’s precisely the part that worries me. Immediate threat of death/serious harm vs when anything could happen is a thin but important distinction. Sometimes clearer than others and I do try to respect that but also try to remember which side is trained/tasked with great duty and which side is often drunk/high/mentally ill/scared/or just having an awful day. and thanks for the well wishes! I’m in Nola so should be breezy and some spurts of rain. Will be absolutely devastating where it hits though. Really escalated in a hell of a way.

they were playing a playoff game at 4pm eastern on a Wednesday during an interrupted season. You don’t see any other possible causes for a dip?

In the Atlanta drunk driver incident I asked what harm it would’ve been not as aggressively fighting/chasing him. You know, you have his ID, and car... probably not too bad to issue a warrant and pick him up later if he gets away. people responded that he’d potentially steal cars and kill people driving drunk, or hole up in nearby establishments/homes with hostages. I suspect he’d duck down a nearby ally and call a friend for a ride and then get arrested at home sometime pretty close after instead of fighting over a taser and shooting him. that we are so fast to fall in comply or die as a standard does worry me. And I do get it’s a hard job done by imperfect people. And force is often needed. But we sure are quick to justify it.

define expect? im not shocked he was shot. I think we shoot too many people and are cool with it if the guy does just about anything wrong. I don’t think it’s ok to resist arrest. Rarely do I think it should be immediate death.

Yea this is going to probably be really bad for those in the path. Never wish it on anyone but glad it’s off course from the largest metro areas.

you’ve oversimplified his job greatly. It’s simply not just stop entry by all means needed. what he did was out of bounds and for a reason. This is one of many ways it could’ve gone south.

I’ve got to ask- even if he was some guy trying to slip by do any of you think the guard is even in a remote galaxy of acceptable behavior yet alone the ballpark of it? on the flip side do you think it’s weird that a well known vip might put their pass in their pocket and flub taking it out in the heat of the moment? ones a train wreck and the other is a bit spacey, no? it’s kind of akin to getting billy clubbed for going 60 in a 55 though. sure, if you weren’t speeding you might not have been pulled over in the first place but....

a few years in? Not really.

no but it may not be a need bringing these specific options in. It could just be the next round of depth auditioning in case of injury/covid.

Not sure. having attended bad college games in pro stadiums. It’s a very uncomfortable presentation to have 10-20k, yet alone forcing them to actually spread out and not just bunch in the lower bowl as close as possible. something like this only goes so far for energy: https://www.google.com/amp/s/sportsnaut.com/2017/11/look-levis-stadium-pretty-much-empty-49ers-game/amp/

13k in a stadium that size may as well be. Once you start skipping seats and rows it’s going to look ridiculous even by their standards and won’t be any noise with maybe 6k total in the lower bowl (if that with the first several rows also under tarp)

I think the questionable part is the huge escalation. Nothing wrong with asking for the pass. No ones saying that’s an issue. It’s that he approached the guy so aggressively as an adversary.

I guess warrants maybe overstates. Justifies? I think it’s fine to ask, but don’t think you have to. Especially in this particular clip. I don’t think it’s super productive to hyper analyze every interaction but I do think broad strokes understanding that junk behavior and racist actions happen are generally better than pretending it’s not a thing. Plenty of folks out there pretend racism is dead and I think that’s likewise not good. So there’s a middle ground where we can see and acknowledge it and hopefully grow.

I definitely think it’s too much to declare it definitively racism. I do think there are red flags that warrant the question. i do think the two arm shove instead of simply breaking his path with an arm or stepping in the path a bit earlier is a pretty big flub here. It was far to confrontational for the moment and setting. He’s guarding a section of seats that were very high dollar, not trying to stop an advancing angry mob. You can lead with some tact.