BADOLBILZ

1. No.......it's LITERALLY not what netted the Bills Edmunds.........it was just a fraction of the cost. If you want to know an exact % that pick weighed into the deal then check your preferred draft pick trade value chart. 2. The Bills acquired the 1st round pick that was the foundation of the Edmunds deal as part of the compensation for the pick the Chiefs used on Mahomes. They then added the pick acquired for Tyrod to that and traded up to get Edmunds. I mean if @Zerovoltz came on here and gloated that the Chiefs netted Mahomes for Edmunds I suspect you'd object to the omission of Tre White. 3. Right........the quality of draft decisions become clearer the further you get from that draft. Remember earlier in this thread when you were complaining about people judging draft decisions prior to 3 years? And now you are complaining about hindsight? Would you say that trading Bozak "netted" the Sabres a 2019 1st, a 2020 2nd, Tage Thompson, Sobotka and Bergland from St. Louis? Sounds like a sweeeeeet deal by Botterill! Go Sabres!

Netted? No......the pick for Taylor was part of the draft capital used to acquire Edmunds. Patrick Mahomes + Tyrod Taylor = Tre White + Tremaine Edmunds. 32 teams would rather have Mahomes.

There is a difference between being "consumed" by something and being "affected" by it. Affected spans the range of 1% and up..........consumed is all-encompassing(100%).

ask @oldmanfan he said it

Yeah there is this perception that the people running scouting departments or GM'ing clubs are simply the most talented football evaluators possible..............and that's not really how the system works. If you are willing to grind at a low paying job and make large family sacrifices for a long time........with some breaks and good timing you can ascend to a decent paying job in pro football. The reason the system is like this is because the owners KNOW that there are a million people who can do the same job so they don't need to starter shop at MIT. It's not rocket science.........they want a pool of people who are single minded about football and then they hope they develop some that are smart enough to handle the management jobs without worrying every day if that person is looking for another job(which is a major issue in most of the more complicated/tech professions). Every once in a while they find a Belichick............but most of the time it's a glorified gym teacher like.......Marvin Lewis (y'all thought I was going to say McDermott, admit it). And yeah the pay cut would be huge. The lower rungs of pro sports is a sub-minimum wage gig. I could just retire and do it but in my late 40's I'm not going to be traveling around scouting small colleges. Hell in my late 30's I had no interest in that kind of work. No thanks. My long list of interests trumps my desire to do that. I'm very interested in my hobby but I'd pretty much have to go to the top of a personnel department to even be interested in the job. If the stakes keep rising it will be interesting to see if more NFL owners start seeking out the cream of the crop in college and paying well like other professions do.......analytics becoming a factor encourages that........but as long as everyone is doing it this way then it's just going to be a bunch of dedicated JAG's working their way up the system.

You don't give a run stopping DT the top of the market contract for that type of position just because you need something better than one of the very worst DT's in the league. You do that because you think you are getting a really good player. They didn't get that though and few outside of them thought they would............as I said the contract was panned as awful and that was BEFORE he played his worst season as a pro.

I didn't say McD was "consumed" by pride..........but keeping Peterman around into the 2018 season when he had shown very little upside and had produced the worst quarterbacked half of football in NFL history was either McDermott being stubborn or just a very bad judge of talent. And don't tell @Gugny that McDermott stood in front of the team and told them benching Taylor for Peterman was a mistake. As far as Ducasse snaps go I have no idea what your point is. He played 53% of the Bills snaps. Royale's argument was that Star playing 45% of snaps proved that McD really liked the work he was doing.........my point is that there are many reasons why players play significant amounts of snaps. I mean if the Bills loved Wyatt Teller so much in place of Ducasse why did they sign and draft about 5 different guys for him to try to stave off to retain his starting job? I think we know the answer...........they didn't really like either Ducasse or Teller.

I remember when the Bills drafted him (because Antonio Brown didn't answer their phone call.......Batten was Billsy).

There are instances where it could certainly be construed as a factor...........KB and Peterman, for example. I suspect that if Star stinks it up this year they will gradually cut his snaps and phase him out and take the $8M cap hit next winter but pride will be a factor.........I think they give him every chance to re-establish himself because it's going to be a BAD look if he struggles again.

But he played over half of the snaps last year.........McDermott couldn't have thought he was hurting the offense? ? I keeed.............but I actually approve of him still being on the roster.........we've seen situations where O-lines have been thoroughly decimated by injury.............no point cutting Vlad the Imploder out of spite for his poor play in the past when it isn't costing you anything to keep a veteran who knows the offense around until you are sure you have a healthy group of better options as the season closes in.

Ok Adolphus Washington played 46% of snaps in 2017..........is that an indicator whatsoever that McDermott didn't think he was hurting the defense? I think the McDruthers would be to have a 1 tech he could play 60-65% of snaps(like he used Lotulelei in Carolina) and a 3 tech who could play about 70-73% (like Kawann Short in 2015 and 2016)...........but if he could have two Kawann Short's at DT3T then maybe he'd be OK with 50/50 like you said.

We are 63% of the snaps toward 100 pages. This one's for John!

In the three seasons that he didn't miss games to injury in Carolina he played 60%, 66% and 59% of the teams snaps in those years. I don't know where you came up with that 53% figure but it's about 10% low. I am guessing you didn't bother to check that Lotulelei missed 2 full games and parts of 2 others in 2014............kinda' like you botched the Jordan Phillips snaps earlier. In short.........for like the 5th time.......forget the stats dude you are terrible at it. And as for your question.........do YOU think Vlad Ducasse playing 53% of offensive snaps proved McDermott thought he wasn't hurting the offense? You are trying to find a conclusion where there isn't one. Sometimes players play simply because there isn't enough depth or quality or even because they were highly paid players and management is hoping they start justifying their contract(you know, like.......Kelvin Benjamin).

Rubbish and garbage are by very definition synonymous..............but the relativity of his play versus his pay factors into that. Adolphus graded out as one of the worst few DL in the NFL..........there is no point in comparing the two. What was that again?

Lotulelei played 67% of defensive snaps under McDermott in Carolina in 2016.............if you think the intention was for him to play less than 50% of snaps and that would remotely justify $10M per year then I don't know what to tell ya'. That really doesn't make any sense. He just didn't play well enough.........that's why he didn't play more.......simple as that. Gunner and I think he played like garbage but regardless of how sub-par he played he was not good and is being paid like the best run stopper in football......... his contract is awful.

This is what I mean...........you got excuses up the cloaca if it justifies Sabres management being drawn and quartered.........but the Bills........well management was right about THOSE moves!

I know this much............I was embarrassed about how the organization handled the Dareus situation in preseason. I literally sat in traffic on Transit listening to Chris Brown on the Bills network preseason pre-game dress down Dareus for not being more committed to excellence and use all of his dead family members to question why he couldn't appreciate his teammates more. With all the people you've lost why can't you be a better teammate? Ridiculous and way out of bounds for a Bills employee. It was probably the most insulting thing I've heard from a team shill in any sport............and it was clearly being fed from management because that guy doesn't have the authority to speak like that without permission. At that point I was like please for chrissakes just cut the f*cking guy. And I said it here then. But they didn't have the balls to do it............they waited until he helped them to a good record and then pulled the rug out from under themselves and narrowly avoided a Dick Jauron/Chan Gailey-esque fast start first half and second half playoff collapse.

Oh absolutely. I don't think for a minute that McDermott came into this job with an open mind about the personnel. I think he was arrogant like most new HC's but also knew that he wasn't a game changing X and O guy...........and that his background wasn't that impressive so he wasn't going to have an easy time winning over prime age players in ANY locker room outside of Carolina...........and he found a job here in Buffalo where he would be given the freedom to build a roster in his image and jumped at the chance. For an unsophisticated first time HC who has a lot of re-tread potential this is a very good opportunity..........plenty of built in excuses and if it doesn't work he can say he learned from his "honest" mistakes like trying to improve culture in the next interview. But I think he's already changed his tune about the sanctity of the process.............losing will do that............and that's why they were all over Antonio Brown who is anything but process when it comes to being a teammate. If they don't win this year it could get ugly like the end of the Jauron era where Dickie went from Jauron Ball to trying to create a no-huddle offense and taking TO into the fold.

Oh if it was just Dareus that they moved on from then fine...............your coaching situation was entirely different being just one player...........but when you extract that much talent to change a culture...........and then watch most of those players go elsewhere and excel and not in any way impede their teams SIGNIFICANTLY greater success...........well that's the issue. I am assuming John didn't go on to greater things with other teams but even if he did that's just one player............not 5 players ending up starters in championship games and 3 of them in Super Bowls while the Bills labored to a 10-15 record since the last one was pared off the Bills roster. Dareus wasn't the most valuable of that group but it turned out that he was the last straw....................his trade undermined what should have been the Bills first double digit win season in almost two decades. I still have no clue why they made the deal in-season.............if you are sure he's going to hurt your process then you can't go into the season with him.............but to make the move in season in a playoff race was a dubious decision..........and the draft pick certainly wasn't worth the exposure to a cast of practice squad players manning that position.

They drafted a 1 tech in Harrison Phillips in the third round in 2017. For a run stuffing DT only that's most definitely a starting grade draft pick. It's a passing league you don't pick backup 1's or 0's early.........those kinda' guys are late picks who are often inactives or practice squadders. So why you keep ignoring Harrison Phillips and saying they haven't addressed the position with a replacement I don't understand..........you can only suit up 47 on game day Royale.........how many "2 down only" DT's do you think are required? You basically need 1 of them plus a versatile DT who can play either...........a bill which a 6' 6" 340# Jordan Phillips might just be able to handle for the 15% of snaps or so. Hence my take that Star could see some healthy scratches if he doesn't come to camp a changed player. But he CERTAINLY isn't going to be cut even if he performs like KB...........not with close to $19M still guaranteed on the books.........I mean if they cut Star with $19M left AFTER already eating Dareus' $24M.........that would be a true feat of stupidity from a GM over a 1 Tech position. Here is my outlook for the season at DT............if Ed Oliver is healthy HE will draw the double teams and Harrison Phillips should have a strong statistical season.

No doubt on Phillips. But on whether they could build on what they had with Dareus? I believe the chief reason they used the salary cap and other excuses to clear the decks of prime age young players was because those tyes of players have enough leverage to not feign buy-in and want the coach to at least meet them half-way if not actually prove to them that they have a good plan and can make a difference from the sideline. McDermott wasn't comfortable convincing anyone because he knew he wasn't a McVay who could instantly turn around a moribund franchise with X's and O's and let the culture follow. It's no coincidence that all of the big names moved or lost.......Gilmore, Woods, Watkins, Darby and Dareus..........could afford to take that stance.........and McBeane even doubled down by lining the pockets of McCoy and Wood to get them to pimp "the process". That summer of 2017 McBeane were really feeling their power...........I think they were too impatient with players like Sammy and Dareus..........I don't think it's too much to ask for a coach to understand that players with options are going to be more cautious about buying into an unproven regime. You might be able to convince me the bleaching out of prime young talent was worth it if the team hasn't been so bad since the Dareus trade. They have a 10-15 record since and their point differential actually indicates that that is a false read and they have been worse than that. Ultimately, not many organizations would give that much freedom to tear down a roster.............but the Bills with desperate ownership were willing. That's happened before under Ralph when he was becoming frail and over-empowered Donahoe and Levy/Jauron and even Buddy/Gailey...........so it's not something we haven't seen...........but in this case it seems McBeane even had full control of the purse strings..........which lead to the biggest dead cap hit season by one in NFL history. And those "too close" haircuts by all of the other regimes repeatedly set the roster too far back for each of their regimes to survive the build. That's ultimately the issue here...........instead of working with what they had like most ownerships force new regimes to do.........the Bills are now playing catch up(again).

As I've said many times regarding Star.....the eyeball test says he was sluggish, didn't impact OL on contact and was too slow to disengage to be able to make plays..............the woeful numbers only confirm the eyeball test. As for the other question.........when Kelvin Benjamin was running with the first team until the week that he was cut was that proof that they liked or were satisfied with what he was doing on the field? I don't think so.........I think we all know that the situation was complicated by the fact that they swung a trade to get a player they were familiar with and were paying him $8M.

Well yes he was brought in to play the 1 tech like Dareus...........which is a position that involves some stacking of blockers but also allows for more freedom to make plays than nose tackle. But let's say Star was just signed to be a LOS bound nose tackle.............well the highest paid one of those is Damon Harrison who signed a 5 year $47M deal with the Giants with $24M guaranteed........... slightly less than Star's ABSURD contract and almost certainly the comp that Star's agent and the Bills used to come up with that number. But Harrison and Lotulelei aren't on the same planet as players............Harrison is good for 75-80 tackles and 10+ backfield plays per year...........Star was only about 1/3 as productive in the previous years in Carolina when he signed that contract.......that's why it was panned by most observers at the time as the worst or one of the worst deals signed. But last year he put up just 17 tackles and 1 TFL. That's woeful and for Damon Harrison+ money at that spot. See Harrison Phillips stats and compare.........35 tackles and 6 backfield plays in 8% less snaps than Star. What's Phillips worth? $20M per? That role/position traditionally does not pay well and yet McBeane paid Lotulelei like the best in the league. Face it......Star was a turd last year..........he hasn't even been good for a while.........basically since after his rookie year when he was a touted first round pick who was supposed to be a dominant player for years to come(sound familiar?). That hasn't happened but it didn't stop McBeane from doubling down on their cap mess at DT1T. What you "don't seem to understand" is how out of whack that contract is. It's horrible.

You aren't alone in thinking Peterman was going to be better...........you just couldn't have been any more wrong...........even the dubiously dubbed "coach" Sal Capaccio thought he was going to much better than Tyrod. I was certain he was going to fail based on a simple eye test.......seeing his chuck and duck act in the preseason that everyone fawned over yet which only resulted in 50% completions...............it was inevitable that those passes thrown up for grabs were going to turn into interceptions against actual starting NFL talent. First rule of Jauron Ball is don't turn the ball over. Utter stupidity by McDermott to forget his first rule. Fortunately he went back to Tyrod and Taylor guided them to that key road win in KC. Best thing about McDermott is that he owns and addresses his mistakes. You should own that awful take instead of defending it.

Here's the reality..........Taylor had one atrocious game against the Saints...........the game before in NJ he was the only Bills player who showed up..........and he deserved to be benched in the middle of a playoff race for Nate Peterman? You still going with that?