BADOLBILZ

You don't have to think it, they weren't. But do you think the 2017 team that got trampled twice by NE and had the worst point differential of any playoff team since the 1980's "was a playoff team". Well, they were. Somehow. The 2013 team had a better PD and played NE a whole lot tougher..........I'd actually say both of Marrone's teams were better than that 2017 unit.

Said it on here before..........but Frank Gore was a more physical version of Marshall Faulk before he tore up those knees............he was never anywhere near the same player. He'd be talked about like Jim Brown or Walter Payton..........not just mentioned with them on the yardage list.

The NFL turns a blind eye to the juice to allow some of these players to have long careers.............but Mathis took juicing to a new level that year.

Counting drafting a QB as simply an "offensive" pick is . You might as well not field a team at all if you don't have a good one of those. And good QB's don't sign on with teams because they want to play with those good DE's or CB's or LB's...........you already knew that. QB is a transcendent position for a franchise. Also..........just because Edmunds was the second first round pick doesn't mean he wasn't a first round pick. The actual count is 4 defensive players drafted in round 1............zero offensive players. The Diggs trade was a reactionary move after the team had failed to address receiver with ANY success in the 3 prior drafts............they had botched offensive drafting SO BADLY that they couldn't even afford to take the risk of drafting a WR and further short-handing their young QB at that point. Let's not pretend that there hasn't been more of an emphasis on the defensive side of the ball..........both contractually and in the draft..........it's indisputable.

Well in retrospect most fans tend to view things very differently after they see a QB go bust...........but that new Marrone team came out of the gate firing........new systems were catching teams off guard.........they should have been 4-0..........but for one Colin Brown, IMO. Getting out to a fast start changes everything for an upstart team.......see 2017. Having Colin Brown starting was like what would have happened to the 2017 Bills had they dumped Marcell Dareus in camp. The 2017 Bills were never the same team after that fast start that Dareus outstanding run defense helped them be..........they went from thinking home field in October to playing just one good game(in KC) the rest of the season and barely avoiding elimination at the hands of David Fales in Miami. Sometimes being utterly dreadful at one position........even one not associated with changing games.........can indeed undermine the whole show. An average LG in tow.........2013 Bills go at least 9-7, IMO. No Marcell Dareus........2017 Bills stumble out of the gate and finish far outside of playoff contention.

The average NFL career is just over 3 years. My first thought when I saw the title was whether the OP realized this. Most of the players that suffer ACL injuries are barely hanging on to an NFL job............because most players in the NFL are barely hanging onto a job. I'd also think that players who make a lot of money find it much easier to rehabilitate from injuries. I think the answer is that ACL injuries are much easier to come back from now than they were even 10 years ago. As for what @BruceVilanch said about Tommy John surgery.........the difference there is that A LOT of TJ patients actually come back throwing harder than ever before. I don't think there is any evidence that the ACL repairs have had a positive affect beyond getting players back to where they once were or close to it.

Jameson Williams Troy Anderson

Yeah it's important to have at least adequate players at every OL position..........if one is awful it can blow up everything..........that's primarily why the Bills allowed 125 combined pressures and sacks last year......TERRIBLE left guard play for most of the year. All the while an adequate 4 year vet was riding the pine just waiting to have his number called. That doesn't happen at QB or Pass Rusher or LT or WR. The most egregious example in Bills history of horrible guard play costing a Bills team games might have been when they let Andy Levitre walk and replaced him with Colin Brown...........who proceeded to make Benny Anderson and Ross Tucker look like John Hannah and Eugene Upshaw by comparison. Colin Brown literally kept that team out of the playoffs that year..........teams game-planned to cut him from the herd. But it isn't hard to find adequate talents at guard.

Bruce was sometimes mocked on TSW for his play in Washington........he was clearly physically diminished wrt run defense........but what his production there showed was how dominant he COULD have been in his prime if playing in a true 4-3 like he did with the Redskins. In his time in Washington he had multi-sack games against both Orlando Pace and Walter Jones........I believe the only one's they allowed in their careers. In Buffalo he often had multi-gap responsibilities in their 3-4........which tamped down his production significantly on early downs and lead to a false narrative that he couldn't beat elite LT's(specifically Tony Boselli).

I don't like the pick there either but he is an impressive athlete and a good coaching staff and elite QB might be able to turn him into a really productive player. You wonder what a guy like that would look like if he had had Brian Hartline as his WR coach and better QB play. I'm not a fan of Ridder.........he reminds me of a slightly juiced up Brad Kaaya.

Actually this wasn't the thread where the guy was banging the table for Imatorbhebhe so without seeing that one I admit that I may have conflated the two and falsely accused you of higher praise. Still, you actually were wrong about JI. And Fehoko. I likely mixed it up because I remembered your absolute dismissal of the idea that Fehoko would be selected. As someone who has followed the draft pretty closely since the late 80's.......I can attest that you should never deal in absolutes with fringe prospects like those two......it's irrational given the decades of information we have.

Yeah, I kid............but if some team is going to get themselves in a position where they can't do the math to get themselves under the salary cap.............and challenge the league on what they are going about it..........its definitely the New Orleans Saints. The league isn't going to not let them play just because they are over the cap. The players association won't let the league force the Saints to not play players that they have under contract. The one thing we do know is that draft penalties have always been noted........and it makes sense as it is one thing the league can control. So what if the Saints decide to clear their future cap in 2025 and go into a season $150M over the cap? If the punishment is just one season of no draft picks...........that sure as hell beats the kind of tear down that the Bills did in the early 2000's. It will be interesting to follow because that is definitely the direction the Saints are going..........they haven't changed their spots one bit despite mounting future debt.

I don't underestimate Davis.........I judge him on his merit.........which is as a 500-600 yard type big play receiver.......albeit facing mostly 3rd-4th CB's in his first two seasons..........with notable bouts of inconsistency and nagging foot/ankle injuries. Cinci has 3 young/prime age WR's who have already put up 1,000 yard plus seasons in their careers and combined for 3,400 last season. LA Chargers have two proven 1,000 yard receivers in Allen/Williams. Miami has 100 catch + 1,000 yard Jaylen Waddle and added the big producing Tyreek Hill. So yeah, it's not an act of excess AT ALL for the Bills to be seeking a player to challenge the inconsistent and only modestly productive Gabe Davis and supplant 30 year old journeyman Jake Kumerow on the depth chart. It's not a position of good depth for the Bills.

Yeah I've lamented the Bills being undersized at NT during those SB years.......in part because Smerlas was NOT undersized..........but in reality guys like Buffalo born Jim Burt were even smaller at NT than Wright and held up fine for NYG and SF. NT's in the 80's and early 90's weren't the enormous individuals they are now. Dallas O-line was actually one of the reasons NT's started getting bigger. Aside from center their OL was enormous for the day.

Sadly, the Bills NT across from Stepnoski in those SB's was also in the 260's.

Playing on islands is not how the Bills CB's operate.........including Tre White. White isn't great because he can run in lock step with the best WR's in the league.........he's not a shut down man coverage CB........he excels because he is instinctive and aware and physical and has outstanding ball skills...........traits that are showcased in the Bills zone system. He's a modern day version of Rhonde Barber(former 3rd rounder and many time All Pro Tampa-2 zone CB)..........not a lockdown, "island" man CB. You don't need to draft those traits in round 1. Maybe it's unrealistic to keep using undrafteds and 6th rounders and still keep getting top ranked pass defense's like they've done so far...........but that doesn't mean you have to go to round 1 and overdraft the position.

Yeah Moss and Megatron are the two most "talented" WR's in NFL history..........if Moss had his head right and was committed to being great he would own all receiving records. The numbers he put up he did so without being fully invested in being great.........it came easy for him. There is A LOT of distance between being a star WR in the NFL and being of the talent level of those kind of greats.

You had Fehoko and Imatorbhebhe backward.

Troy Anderson His draft slot may not end up aligning with good value for an off-ball LB but he's a guy who I think has a chance to be tremendous in the Bills defensive system.

He was both the best RB prospect in that draft, IMO.........and still a low ceiling option to use that pick on.

I think the comp I've settled on is Vincent Jackson. Jackson was basically unrecruited..........went to Northern Colorado because they were the only one to offer a scholarship........somehow excelled as a punt and kick returner despite his size........had the size and speed but very little refinement to his game entering the NFL.........entered the league at 22 as opposed to the 20-21 year olds who were 4-5 star prospects..........and had a long career of big production as primarily a deep threat. Watson is a little lighter and considerably faster than Jackson but there are a lot of similarities. Seems like a smart, well spoken guy like Jackson was as well. Jackson ended up being a second round steal but his rise in the draft process was very similar to what we are seeing with Watson........early on Jackson seemed like a late round flyer kinda' guy and rose all the way up to second round. I was a little concerned with Watson's narrow frame..........I was thinking more along the lines of Marquez Valdes-Scantling.........but I think he's going to be much better than the less than physical MVS. Although MVS has gotten paid too.

Their defensive system is built around executing a complex zone scheme...........they aren't "hiding" a CB2 in zone.........that's what they play. And even if they invest the equivalent of a $20M+ chip into a CB in round 1........that CB is still going to mostly be doing the things that Levi and Dane have been asked to do. They aren't going to be running a "box and one" concept where one CB with good man cover skills is running around rogue while the rest of the defense is adhering to their zone concepts/responsibilities. The Bills drafting a stud cover talent at CB is akin to drafting a deep threat WR when your QB can't get the ball over the top of a defense.........it's talent totally wasted if you can't use it.

The Bills need a corner in the same way that they needed a guard when Ryan Bates was a free agent still........and then suddenly didn't. Many fans have this "on paper" notion in their head that drafting a stud cover CB means that player is going to be chasing Tyreek Hill around the field...........and that's not how the Bills play defense. No matter how early you draft that guy he's mostly going to be asked to drop back and make the plays in front of him............a job late rounders and UDFA's have proven to be very adequate at in the Bills defense DESPITE a lack of finishing pass rush in recent seasons. So the Bills may not need a receiver in round 1 but they also don't need a CB with elite man cover skills........which is what you'd BETTER be getting if you invest a 1st rounder in one.

I'll go back to me tryna' sell TSW on the Bills standing pat and drafting the best defensive player in the 2014 draft....... Aaron Donald........when the Bills already had a stacked DL.........they didn't "need" one right then..........but first round picks aren't necessarily about 1st year results. Dude became the best defensive player of this century so far and is still playing at a superstar level. And Gabe Davis doesn't have the All Pro track record of those Bills DL .......... he is a 500-something yard receiver the past 2 seasons. He is a projection who failed to beat out a tired Emmanuel Sanders, struggled with a foot injury yet again, had a terrible in-season game where he had like 3 catches on 13 targets and also had a costly drop in the Jags loss and missed the second NE game entirely because he wore too much tinfoil under his helmet. People are so fixated on the playoff game vs KC that they think the Bills have the best 1-2 combo in the league or something. They don't.