Armchair GM

You're right...They have just an equal shot of ignoring the line and D and going WR & TE...Personally, I think it's smarter to lock down you OL and improve upon a D that is on it's way to being very, very good. Austin started comming around and the draft (dead horse) is deep @ WR, fairly deep @ TE and there is a slew of RB's in the mid to late rounds. Also, I don't think they take the same "dust settles" approach to FA as the Bills have recently. All I'm saying is, they have the ammo to make some moves, albeit strange that it may be with the Bills, it's still a very real possibility with the same or different players in the mix. Who wouldn't want 2 picks in the top 10 and only give up 1 of 2 2nd rd picks? I have an equal shot of being dead wrong as well...which is more likely than not.

Interesting post, as I am a Cleveland fan...Bills first, then Cleveland, that is. Cleveland is in a great spot and with Pettine I fully expect them to pass up on QB @ 4. For the same reason indicated above. IMHO, they are content with Hoyer to begin the draft process and, as the OP stated, supplement the position later or in FA. I don't see Houston trading out of 1, though. It makes too much sense for them to take Manziel. I don't care what the pundits say about the TX connection (not being a big deal). Fact is, Johnny D-Bag is a TX boy through and through that will stay in TX with a team that has a southern owner that has been in Houston for more than 50 years...so, by default, he's a true Texan. Houston needs a QB and Manziel gives them just that plus all the fan and marketing appeal. Face it, Texans love hell-raisers and Manziel fits the bill. It gets interesting with St. Louis...everybody is thinking OT. But, with the depth of talent there coupled with the fact they picked up Long last year (even though he's injured), I believe they go in a different direction. Like the OP stated, they follow the Seattle mold and go D with pick 2. Since they are set, by all accounts, at DE I think they grab Mack. Putting Mack behind those DE's and next to Laurinitas makes for a nasty front 7. Then, they trade back into the top 10 with our Bills. Here they have the option of picking up some insurance for Long (if he's not ready) and they're opposite bookend to the aforementioned Long. They'll have to pay a hefty price, given pick values, and we (Bills) end up with an additional 2nd rounder. Jacksonville will take Bortles, whom I believe is the best QB in the draft. Cleveland is up and Clowney is there for the taking and Pettine, et al, have a circle jerk. Oakland takes Watkins. even though I don't believe they are satisfied with Pryor, they just can't pass up the talent that is Watkins. Atlanta has shown their hand to all and in this scenario, it works out for them and they grab Robinson. Tampa is a crap shoot. They can go in so many different directions. They need help, or could stand and upgrade, all over the field. They've seemingly committed to Mike Glenn, so I think they grab an OT, who just so happens to be BPA here with Matthews. Minnesota lands Bridgewater as we all know they are a mess with their QB situation. St. Louis (Buff) is up again and they grab that insurance/bookend that I spoke of earlier. Lewan is a Ram. Detroit grabs Evans. who better to be opposite of Megatron but a dude that is the same size and could develop into the same dominating type WR everyone wants? Tenn could use help on D and they grab the best available pass rusher. Barr comes off the board. Cleveland (NYG). This is where Cleveland makes their move. A relatively sizable jump, but I think it only costs them 1 of thier 3rds and one of their 4ths. NYG buys into it because of the deep draft and ends. Cleveland still has two 2nd rounders to boot. Initially I thought Lee to go opposite of Gordon, but with the impressive work outs the other WR's put up it could end up being Cooks, Benjamin (even with the poor showing @ the combine) or even Beckham. Our boys are set to grab Ebron. Initially I wasn't a fan of this kid. I thought he was an oversized WR, but he packed on about 10 lbs and seemingly didn't lose a step. With an NFL training regimen I think he can pack on an additional 5-10 lbs and be a beast in the Graham mold. So, here's what my top 15 looks like: 1- Houston - Manziel 2 - St. Louis - Mack 3 - Jax - Bortles 4 - Cleveland - Clowney 5 - Oakland - Watkins 6 - Atlanta - Robinson 7 - Tampa - Matthews 8 - Minnesota - Bridgewater 9 - St. Louis (Buf) - Lewan 10 - Detroit - Evans 11 - Tenn - Barr 12 - Cleveland (NYG; Kouandjio @ 26) - Lee (Grab thier RB in rd 2 and QB in rd 3-4) 13 - Buffalo - Ebron (2nd rd: 41-Moses; 44-Moncrief) 14 - Chicago - Gilbert 15 - Pittsburgh - Dix

Exactly why I'm not all over this...Love DQ, but if we're going to "overpay" for a LB in FA, I'd want someone about 5-6 years his jr. The only one that jumps off the FA list at me is Butler from S.D. however, looks as if they're working on keeping him in Southern CA.

Just saw on the ticker that Coughlin believes Tuck, Nix & Beason all deserve to test the FA market...Beason, IMHO, should be a target for the Bills. Great stop gap 2-3 year guy as a starter. I don't think there is an ILB in this years draft worth it until the later rounds, which is even more of a crap shoot. Pick up Beason and a later round draft pick to develop and wait for a true stud ILB in the next couple drafts.

Yeah, my boy Joe Don Duncan, TE Dixie State, put up 35 reps on the bench!

Awesome article!! Beats the Michael Oher story, IMHO. I'm rooting for this kid, unless he ends up on the Jets, *Pats or Phins.

Actually...I have him in my top 5 in rd 7 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/165302-bb-2014-off-season-discussion%3B-mocks-fa-etc/page__st__100 check out response #119 on pg 6.

Great first post home skillet! Insightful, well written and best of all, REALISTIC! Welcome to TBD!

Normally I'd agree, but there is so much talent in this draft. Most, if not all, of the guys that'll end up being ranked in the top 20-25 have the same level of top 10 talent as previous years. Trading back this year, IMHO, is a no brainer. I'd like to stay in the top 20, but if the price is right, dropping down to 24 wouldn't be too painful. Throw out those value charts!! When a team wants to jump up into the top 10, they tend to overspend...you could see up to a "200 point" swing.

OK, we're all pretty much on the same page with what this team needs positionally, that being OT, OG, LB, WR, TE...throw in RB's (FJ not gettn any younger) and some DB's (can never have too many) Continuing the discussion, what do we do @ 9? Who's your top 5 targets in each round & where do you take them?...Give some names and the spot you think they'll be avaialable. Forget the top 5 of each position as the variance will only sway slightly given the combine and pro day workouts. For me, I don't necessarily believe we're at the point where we can afford to go BPA..so at this point, I try hard to trade back, as hard as it would be to pass up Watkins if he's still there. Round 1 - Top 5 Zach Martin, OT - N.D. (can be had outside the top 15, and will be our starting LG) Taylor Lewan, OT - Michigan (can be had outside the top 15 and will be our starting RT) Kahlil Mack - OLB, Buffalo (pick 9, if available) Sammy Watkins, WR - Clemson (pick 9, if available) ASJ, TE - UCLA (I have him better then Ebron and Amaro, but still can be had outside the top 20, maybe even @ 9 in round 2) Round 2 - Top 5 (hopefully we end up with 2 picks) ASJ, TE - UCLA (if he makes it past NE, good chance he'll fall to us) Donte Moncrief, WR - Miss (IMHO, he's the #2 WR in this years draft) Morgan Moses, OT - Virginia Kelvin Benjamin, WR, FL. State (can't believe he's rated the #4 WR, I think he's better then Evans and Lee) Jackson Jeffcoat, DE - TX Round 3 - Top 5 (again, hopefully we end up with 2 selections depending on how far back we trade in rd 1) Donte Moncrief, WR - Miss (if others don't buy iunto this kid like me, good chance he's still around for us to scoop up) Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB - GA Tech C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE - Iowa Cyril Richardson, OG - Baylor (bumped down with hopes of landing an OG earlier) Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB - Nebraska Round 4 - Top 5 (may end up with 2 selections, depending on rd 1 trade down) Will Clarke, DE - WV Shane Skov, ILB - Stanford Christian Jones, ILB - FL State Daniel McCullers, DT - TN Billy Turner, OT - N.D. State (bumped down with hopes of landing an OT earlier) Round 5 - Top 5 Crocket Gillmore, TE - Colorado Max Bullough, ILB - MI State Preston Brown, ILB - Louisville Vinnie Sunsieri, SS - Alabama Joe Don Duncan, TE - Dixie St Round 6 - Top 5 Hakeem Smith, SS - Louisville Ethan Westbrooks, DE - W TX A&M Tyler Gaffney, RB - Stanford Storm Johnson, RB - UCF Cody Hoffman, WR - BYU Round 7 - Top 5 Logan Thomas, QB - VA Tech (move to TE) Colt Lyerla, TE - Oregon (Head case, but talented) Andrew Jackson, ILB - Western KY (fire plug) Zack Kerr, DT - Deleware (concrete traffic barrier) L'Damian Washington, WR - Mizzou (tall, skinny & fast as lightnin)

1.) Alan Branch takes Kyle William's DT spot and KW is used as a situation passing downs DT. 2.) Bills sign Lamar Houston in FA to be the opposite bookend to Mario. Now we have 2 guys that can line up anywhere on the DL, giving opposing OL's big problems 3.) Bills bring back Jabari Greer as their nickel corner Didn't even see this b4 I posted...great minds think alike...or like minds think they're great?

UB's never had a player like Mack... Is this a shared opinion, or just yours? From everything I've read and seen, seems to me you're a bit off on this assessment.

Man, seems like we're on the same page...even down to specific players. However, I billieve the best value of this draft lies between rounds 2-4 (I think you can make that assumption year in and year out). While I agree with your reasoning, and target positions, I'm not so sure I agree with your first 2 picks. Yes, we need a T and a G, but like you said, we want to get guys that are better than what we have. All four of the guys you mention are just that, but there are others that will have as much success at the next level that could be had while addressing other needs. Now, I would stick with your guys if we were drafting for a LT, but we're not. Glenn is as good a LT as most in the NFL. Don't fix what ain't broke. To avoid redundancy, please refer to my earlier post in this thread regarding my mock. In all honesty, given how early we are in the process, these kids are gonna slide up and down in the next few months leading up to the draft...here's my best/worst case scenario with where the prospects we've mentioned will land: ASJ will end up being the top TE. He offers everything Ebron does, but is bigger and a much more complete NFL TE. With that said, I still think we can land him in the 15-20 range. Address OG in FA. If not, stick with my original plan and grab Martin in the same range and look to land a TE on day 2 (Fiedorwicz/Niklas): Rd 1 - ASJ/Martin Moncrief will jump up to an early day 2 slot. We grab him with one of the 2 second rounders we have/get with the trade down in rd 1. Rd 2 - Moncrief & Moses Attaochu will ear a rd 3 grade...so be it Rd 3 - Attaochu McCullers will be around where we're at in rd 4 and he's simply a monster. Adding him in the middle with Williams, Dareus and Branch would be great Rd 4 - McCullers Bullough will slide, just maybe not this far, but one can hope. We'll have to see how bad he screwed up to get suspended for a bowl game in his last year. If it shakes out and IF we move Alonso to WILL, plugging a guy like Bullough between Alonso and Attaochu makes for a great, yet green, LB core. We could forgo an ILB pick and grab Clarke here as I believe he'll jump up in the standings, problem is I think he ends up jumping up to round 4. Rd 5 - Max Bullough/Will Clarke Even with good workouts I think Sunsieri is still around given the injury and questions surroiunding the premature leap to the NFL...but, it's the 6th round and reward outweighs risk here. Rd 6 - Vinny Sunsieri Not many people view it as a need, but I do, so I turn to the offensive backfield here...why not, it's rd 7. Take your pick...both of these guys are in teh Freddy J mold. Rd 7 - Gaffney/Johnson Basically, I think it shakes out as to where we'll have to address one of the OL positions, safety and LB in FA. Best case: 1 (top 20) - ASJ (TE) 2a - Moncrief (WR) 2b - Moses (RT) 3 - Attaochu (OLB) 4 - Clarke (DE) 5 - Bullough (ILB) 6 - Sunsieri (SS) 7 - Gaffney (RB) Worst case: 1 (top 20) - Martin (OG) 2a - Moncrief (WR) 2b - Moses (OT) 3 - Fiedorwicz/Niklas (TE) 4 - McCullers (DT) 5 - Bullough (ILB) 6 - Sunsieri (SS) 7 - Johnson (RB)

I was wondering when this kids name was gonna catch fire...unfortunately, I think it will across the league. Check out some of my recent posts and you'll see I'm a big fan of this kid. Right now, I see a lot of scout sites with him as a midrounder, 4-5. I think it's a bit foolish as it seems like they're basing those assessments on his stats...not bad, but not over the top like the "top" WR's. The thing is, Ole Miss has a few decent receivers with NFL potential and they did a nice job of spreading the ball around the last couple years. Some say that even with good work-outs @ the combine and pro-day will only garner him a round 3 selection...I don't see it...Personally, I'll be shocked if he makes it out of the second. Here's the deal...I can't find many weaknesses in his game. I've seen him play a lot and he's exciting to watch. Even when he's away from the play he's "in the mix." throwing a block and/or running dummy routes. His size makes him vitually impossible to jamb. He's got good hands, runs sharp routes and has deceptive speed. The best part about his game, to me, is his agility. Also, he consistantly makes contessted catches. He's got great concentration. I think a lot of his game comes from the fact is that he's a team guy who goes out there and does everything he can to pitch in. He's not "me" type. If he's not getting the ball, he's taking his man out of the play. When the ball comes his way, he does everything to make the play. He's got the pedigree, too. He was the captain of his H.S. basketball team and a 2-time 3A state champ in the long jump. No big "story" here. He comes from a good home and has a great work ethic and is a true gamer.

Actually, I agree with your opinion of him being the best playmaker in the draft...however, we have 3 guys with speed and good moves in the open field (Spillz, Grey Ham, and Goodwin) and they've yet to figure out how to use these guys. Admittedly, I'm a bit old school, so I firmly believe that the game is still won @ the LOS. Oh, and you used that dirty "dynamic" word! I'm also interested in seeing what Kevin Elliott is going to bring to the table. From what I remember, they were pretty stoked about this kid. I just hope he doesn't turn into another Easley...well, how a lot of us wanted to keep believing he was gonna get healthy and become a playmaker anyway.

Not a direct response, but we're from the same school of thought. Bottom line, NFL football is won by the team that controls the LOS. OL & DL are your front-liners. Not a dig @ anyone, but most fans want to see the "playmaker" types score TD's, make a key sack/tackle or interception. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, those "playmakers" are NOTHING without the guys up front...there are very few exceptions (ie. Barry Sanders). How many times in player interviews do you hear "gotta give credit to my OL," or "our DL controlled the LOS and kept blockers from getting to us," or "My OL gave me a ton of time," etc. We MUST improve up front, on both sides of the ball. Our DL is almost there, but we still need a true BIG MAN and anothe DE opposite of Mario. With the exception of Wood and Glenn, we could definitely improve. So, as I've posted in other threads...trade back or not, I want Martin in rd 1. This kid, IMHO, will be a beast @ LG. He played LT because he was just to damn good to move inside in the NCAA. Read up on him and you'll know why he'll be a Pro Bowl OG. Trading back is ideal as it gives us an opportunity to grab a WR or TE and another OL in rd 2, such as ASJ/K. Benjamin and Morgan Moses (my targets). I'd prefer ASJ as I believe that we can get our future #1 WR in Rd 3 with Moncrief. If this were to shake out (my "perfect world" scenario) we get 2 day 1 OL starters, a day one starter for TE and a day 1 starter WR. To keep it short, I won't blabber on about Moses and Moncrief...if you're interested, here's a link to another thread...http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/165302-bb-2014-off-season-discussion%3B-mocks-fa-etc/ Rd's 4 & 5...McCullers @ DT in the 4th and Will Clarke @ DE in the 5th

Seems to be a bunch of regurgitated babble with no real, original thought put into his assessments...Why ever bother mentioning Manziel or Clowney. I'm not all that amped about Watkins either. The kid is good, don't get me wrong, but 60% of his receptions were on screens..."dynamic" is a word that is being thrown around by the pundits wayyyyy too often these days....UM, Bush was "dynamic," Spiller was "dynamic," Hopkins and Austin were "dynamic." Yes, they may turn into good players, eventually, but the transition into the NFL doesn't bode well for all these players that get the moniker. Ebron is a large receiver, not a TE...again, very good, but I want my TE to be 250-260 and be able to put a hand on the ground and throw a decent block. Even is we let Byrd walk, I'd say the chance of picking a S @ #9 is slim. Boooooring...but very, very realistic. Can't say I'd be terribly disappointed if a scenario like this shakes out. The more I watch Duncan, the less excited I get. He's just not that polished route runner and down field threat...but, he allways seems to be right where his QB needs him to bail him out and get a first down. So, really, not bad.

Annnnnd the truth comes out...I was right! Martin is exactly as I labeled him. Hopefully the dude gets the help he needs, or just comes out himself and faces the world with his integrity intact.

I didn't want to get into trade scenarios, but since you mentioned it...and seems like a lot of other mocks out there have Martin going later in the first, why not trade back a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd. This alters my mock and opens up the 4th rd. rd 1, pick XX - Martin Rd. 2 pick 9 - Austin Sefarian Jenkins (long shot, but no-brainer if he's there). 2 sport athlete and I like what a basketball player could bring to the TE/WR position as they have a good grasp on body position and boxing out. Rd. 2 pick XX - Moses Rd. 3 pick 9 - Moncrief Rd. 4 pick 9 - Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB Georgia Tech; 6'3" 252. Big kid that can move! Good pass rusher who played all over the place durring Sr. week, and had no let down from OLB to ILB, even had his hand on the ground @ DE. He may not be around this late, but it's a pre combine mock in Feb... rd's 5-7, see above.

Mock draft, version 2.0: Lucky us is right...but how about putting together a potentially great O-Line and forget about trying to fix everything in a year? IMHO, there a couple of mid-late rounders who, at this point, are flying under the radar. Problem is, the "pro's" will catch on, eventually. Here's what I came up woth as my 2nd version of a mock: Round 1 Pick 9: Zack Martin, OT, Notre Dame - There's a good chance that Matthews and Robinson are off the board before we get our chance @ the podium...so be it, I want Martin anyway. Here's a plug and play OG with perennial prow bowler written all over him. Round 2 Pick 9: Morgan Moses, OT, Virginia - Put on a display at the Sr. Bowl. Dee Ford...no problem for Mr. Moses. Known as a dominant run blocker, he surprised a few with great pass protection during Sr. Bowl week. This may have been enough to boost his stock up into a late day 1 pick and if he shows well @ the combine... Round 3 Pick 9: Donte Moncrief, WR, Ole Miss - This is one of the "under the radar" guys I am talking about. IMHO, this kid may turn out to be the best WR selected in this years draft. @ 6'3" and 225lbs. he's a strong, big bodied receiver who most CB's won't be able to jamb. He runs smooth routes and flashes outstanding agility with his sharp cuts. Great hands and breakaway speed makes him a nightmare for DB's...again, IMHO Round 4 Pick 9: Joe Don Duncan, TE, Dixie St - #2 "under the radar" type of guy. A small schooler who absolutely dominated the competition. Big dude @ 6'4" 270 who put up WR like #'s as a TE. Has a mean streak and is a complete TE who can block just as well as he can catch. Round 5 Pick 9: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan State - This kid is an absolute machine on the field. Great legacy in Spartan football history. The prototypical size for my preference of a MLB. Problem is, we still don't know what team rule he violated to get suspended for the Rose Bowl. Given his namesake, captainship and outstanding play it jmust have been something a bit more serious than other infractions that get swept under the rug. Couple that with the fact he showed up to the East West game 20lbs over his playing weight, his stock slides a bit. Maybe even flip flop him with the next guy... Round 6 Pick 9: Will Clarke, DE, West Virginia - Here's another kid that put on a show @ the Sr. Bowl. Big dude @ 6'6" 275, shows to be the bookend opposite "Super" Mario. Round 7 Pick 9: Vinnie Sunseri, SS, Alabama - The only reason this kid is still available is the knee injury that knocked him out of most of his last season with 'Bama. EVERYONE is shocked that he declared. Probably should have Stayed and became a day 1 selection in 2015, but this proves to be a low risk high reward type pick.

Lucky us is right...but how about putting together a potentially great O-Line and forget about trying to fix everything in a year? IMHO, there a couple of mid-late rounders who, at this point, are flying under the radar. Problem is, the "pro's" will catch on, eventually. Here's what I came up woth as my 2nd version of a mock: Round 1 Pick 9: Zack Martin, OT, Notre Dame - There's a good chance that Matthews and Robinson are off the board before we get our chance @ the podium...so be it, I want Martin anyway. Here's a plug and play OG with perennial prow bowler written all over him. Round 2 Pick 9: Morgan Moses, OT, Virginia - Put on a display at the Sr. Bowl. Dee Ford...no problem for Mr. Moses. Known as a dominant run blocker, he surprised a few with great pass protection during Sr. Bowl week. This may have been enough to boost his stock up into a late day 1 pick and if he shows well @ the combine... Round 3 Pick 9: Donte Moncrief, WR, Ole Miss - This is one of the "under the radar" guys I am talking about. IMHO, this kid may turn out to be the best WR selected in this years draft. @ 6'3" and 225lbs. he's a strong, big bodied receiver who most CB's won't be able to jamb. He runs smooth routes and flashes outstanding agility with his sharp cuts. Great hands and breakaway speed makes him a nightmare for DB's...again, IMHO Round 4 Pick 9: Joe Don Duncan, TE, Dixie St - #2 "under the radar" type of guy. A small schooler who absolutely dominated the competition. Big dude @ 6'4" 270 who put up WR like #'s as a TE. Has a mean streak and is a complete TE who can block just as well as he can catch. Round 5 Pick 9: Max Bullough, ILB, Michigan State - This kid is an absolute machine on the field. Great legacy in Spartan football history. The prototypical size for my preference of a MLB. Problem is, we still don't know what team rule he violated to get suspended for the Rose Bowl. Given his namesake, captainship and outstanding play it jmust have been something a bit more serious than other infractions that get swept under the rug. Couple that with the fact he showed up to the East West game 20lbs over his playing weight, his stock slides a bit. Maybe even flip flop him with the next guy... Round 6 Pick 9: Will Clarke, DE, West Virginia - Here's another kid that put on a show @ the Sr. Bowl. Big dude @ 6'6" 275, shows to be the bookend opposite "Super" Mario. Round 7 Pick 9: Vinnie Sunseri, SS, Alabama - The only reason this kid is still available is the knee injury that knocked him out of most of his last season with 'Bama. EVERYONE is shocked that he declared. Probably should have Stayed and became a day 1 selection in 2015, but this proves to be a low risk high reward type pick.

Awesome post...I can tell you really understand how the scheme needs to work to be successfull. Unfortunately, I disagree. This draft class is relatively deep @ both TE and WR. I'm in on going OL in round one. Preferably trade back and grab the kid from Notre Dame, plug & play OG for many years. IMO when your 1 or 2 players away from making one of the units on your team elite, then that makes it top priority. As many other have said, except Urlacher, Kiko is not built for MLB in the NFL. To put it bluntly, he's too damn skinny. Reference the quote above in that Kiko is the prototypical WIL and will be a stand out there. Unfortunately, for him, his stock might take a hit due to the suspension right b4 the Rose Bowl...still no info on what team rule he violated, but a must of been something too damning to ignore given that he's a legacy and a big part of that D...maybe good for us if he slips into the 5th, maybe 6th rd... You have to consider the implications that one player will have on the rest of the unit. A true MIKE enables Kiko to play Will and all of a sudden there is drastic improvement. Couple that with Schwartz's scheme and that one player might, in fact, take a bottom of the barrel D to a top 10...right? Guys, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Kiko, or any of your thoughts and opinions...it's just the simple fact of the matter is our D is 1, maybe 2 players away from being bad a$$. On the flip side, E.J. will need some more weapons and an upgrade in protection to get our O on par with the D. In all likelyhood, this will take another couple years unless we sell out and go all O in the first 4 rounds of the draft, which may cut the timeframe down a bit.

No emo fat chicks!

How about FA and draft implications with Schwartz being the new DC? Seems to me that switching back to a 43, even though we mostly had 4 man fronts last year, makes the need for a true MLB even more apparent!

I know how much you love KW...but I agree. And whomever it is MUST be on 350Lbs+...big bodied, space eater that will demand doubles from time to time and force the RB's to the outside. Like I said in another post, KW and Dareus are the same type of player. Neither can jamb up the middle and cause the kind of disruption a bigger bodied guy would. However, they both are the type that can clean up the mess that true big man would create. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to shopping KW. He's been around for a while and has given all he can to this team. I'm not sure how much more he could contribute.