All_Pro_Bills

I find it amazing how many people here are so consumed by fear that think its ethical and moral to force others into being injected with a biological agent they are hesitate to take because they think its going to protect their sorry asses. The real hesitancy is the unwillingness of the majority of officials involved to participate in the spirit of democracy in open and honest discussions of "experts" from the medical community representing all points of view. Because news flash! Not all "experts" agree with the policies and conclusions of people like Dr. Fauci. And most of them are a lot more credible than he and other government bureaucrats are on the subject matter. Like the researcher that identified mRNA functions and processes that gets censored on social media for expressing "mis-information". That's preposterous. Instead they prefer to suppress and censor any opposition to their view either directly or through their proxies in the main stream and social media. Which just confirms the feelings of distrust the vaccine hesitancy crowd has of the government. Maybe try something different. Honesty, facts, and truth.

Assuming the courts have the courage to enforce those fundamental rights and courage is in short supply.

We can't let fear be the motivating factor the controls every aspect of life here. And the issue isn't what restrictions we need or if you support or don't support them. The issue is demanding that the fundamental principals of democracy be followed. Simply, what gives the Mayor dictatorial authority to promulgate and legislate law and restrictions on who can and cannot enter a private business? What's next? de Balsio telling residents of the city who they can and cannot allow into their homes? I support common sense restrictions but I don't support the executive branch of government at all levels abusing "emergency powers" to so they can bypass the elected legislature where such actions can be debated among supporters and opponents in order to give the proposals a fair and public hearing. Is that too much to ask? That we follow the process of elected democracy and refuse to cede power to dictatorial edicts. That's pretty much it. We've got a bunch of petty wanna-be dictators that are drunk with power that are content with bypassing and ignoring the fundamental principals and mechanisms of democracy.

If you have immunity already then getting the vaccine is an unnecessary medical procedure. And medical practitioners generally follow the practice of not recommending or performing unnecessary procedures. This isn't some decision that should reside in the realm of government bureaucratic dictates. My assessment of the first is based on the difference between perceived risk and actual risk. In this case I think I've got immunity but I don't. The second as I said "I suspect" is an "theory" that requires validation.

What is frustrating to me is why health officials refuse to recognize the "natural" immunity that recovered individuals have through antibodies their immune system generated as a result of the infection. Some 35M recovered and likely a lot more that don't even realize they were infected and recovered. The overall goal should be counting and focusing on the number of people that have immunity not on how many shots were taken. This is not synonymous with the number of vaccinated. The other part is those with natural immunity. A simple antibody test will identify who has immunity and who doesn't. And trying to vaccinate people that have natural immunity is in contradiction to the principals guiding medical necessity. Plus given the effective rate of the vaccines we should expect about 5% of those vaccinated to have generated no immune response which means they are under the impression they have immunity when they do not. That's about 7 million people walking around thinking they have protection. Which is a worse situation than being un-vaccinated. I suspect the break-thru cases are situations when the vaccine didn't result in generating antibodies rather than the antibodies didn't work.

The basic premise of your argument seems logical but incomplete. Which if I interpret it correctly is that if COVID has no impact because these deaths would have occurred anyway we wouldn't see a spike in the death rate and count during the pandemic. But as we see a spike that is evidence COVID is causing additional deaths than would otherwise not have happened. What I think needs to be considered is the variable of time and the concept of regression to mean. What COVID is doing is pulling forward deaths that would otherwise have occurred or be reported in some future time period. The additional deaths are being "borrowed" from the future and pulled forward and the reported death rate will be lower than "normal" for those future time periods. What is going to happen is these additional deaths will be subtracted from future time periods. Until the stat adjust back to trend. Which is regression to mean. More or less nobody gets out of life alive and everybody dies. Its just a question of when. One other thing. This isn't killing people with decades of life expectancy left. Its killing people with months to maybe a few years. Because old and sick people tend to die. Sure you can cite a couple examples that contradict that but they are rare and the exception.

I've said it before the virus response is a crisis in confidence and belief that the government is no longer a legitimate and functioning institution. Why are you going to trust a guy that issued dictates that killed thousands of nursing home patients early on, fabricated statistics to lower the real numbers, and then denied any of it was his responsibility? And on top of it got away with it all which only reinforces the truth the system corrupt. And now is trying to get private businesses to do his dirty work so he can claim innocence if it all goes bad. These same dick heads that flippantly violate and circumvent the law think they have any shred of legitimacy to mandate what other people are to do? Then we've got a 1/2 dead president that works off scripted and staged media appearances that otherwise cannot string together two coherent sentences. The question to me is who writes the scripts? Everything is FUBAR'd. I saw that former President Obama has a big birthday bash planned this weekend. 700 guests. But I'm positive official will assure us this is in no way any kind of potential super spreader event. Some excuse like all guests are vaccinated and tested. Believe us! Try that yourself this weekend with 70 people. Assure everyone all guests are vaccinated and tested. The storm troopers will descend on your property like there's no tomorrow.

The political class has a real problem because the rank and file active military soldier and members of the Guard come from the same social class as those armed 2nd Amendment proponents. And if ordered to open fire on "their own people" they may instead decide to bring back the popular Vietnam era practice of "fragging".

Using business as a proxy to take advantage of private property arguments to circumvent potential Constitutional or legal restrictions on the limits of government power. Like the Pentagon and CIA leaving thousands of "contractors" (aka mercenaries) in places like Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan or the CIA/NSA and the Administration in Washington using Facebook and Twitter to censor free speech to avoid things like Freedom Of Information Requests. An extension and cooperative arrangement between of government authority and the private sector otherwise known as Fascism.

Or it could be complete and utter incompetence. And it might be time for people pushing hard for un-vaccinated citizens to get with the program to accept the idea that it isn't some fringe conspiracy groups creating hesitancy but rather the mixed and inconsistent message being sent by officials and politicians. People want information, facts, and balanced and uniformed polices, that aren't obscured and drenched in politics and threats of discriminatory practices for non-compliance. And they want accountable answers from the so called experts who would rather deflect hard questions and refuse to provide any statistical or medical rationale to back up their proclamations and policies. Right now it all sounds like the Mushroom Treatment. Keep us in the dark and feed us B.S. Guys like Cuomo, a suspected sex offender preaching to the rest of us about following the rules and the law and some ethical standard. You got to be joking, right?

I can't disagree. I'm just passing on what Fauci stated when making the recommendation that masks be worn indoors by vaccinated people in higher risk areas because their nasal viral load levels can be high and consistent with those of unvaccinated which could make transmission possible.

You're point may be generally true but irrelevant to my contention. Which is the vaccine does not work as advertised and even if you are vaccinated you can still get sick and you can still spread it which contradicts the fundamental definition of a vaccine. That's all I'm saying. And that's what Dr. Fauci is saying too. It falls closer to the definition of a treatment. And some conclusion that having everyone vaccinated will completely stop the spread of the virus is most likely false. The thing is the government's policy and objectives are half-ass wrong and bordering on irrational ignorance of science. The efficacy rate of the vaccines are not 100%. Its 95% for Pfizer and 94.1% for Moderna. This is cited in their studies and their EUA applications. That means for the Pfizer shot 50 of every 1,000 people vaccinated fail to generate protective antibodies in a sufficient amount to provide protection. For Moderna 59 of every 1,000 people vaccinated fail to generate protective antibodies. So what, there are about 140,000,000 people vaccinated? Do the math. That means roughly 7,000,000 people that got the shot have no antibody protection. So what's the solution? Focus on immunity not vaccinations! By counting people that have immunity through the generation of COVID fighting antibodies. This can be determined through available and established antibody tests. This means counting people that have immunity through the vaccines and also counting people that have "natural" immunity (a big number of those un-vaccinated everyone is targeting) through previous COVID infection and recovery. This latter group is almost 35 million from CDC data on cases and likely more through unreported infections. Antibody tests will also "weed out" vaccinated people that got the shot but have no immunity and are likely completely unaware they have no protection. And allow them to take appropriate action to protect themselves with accurate information on their situation. It will also establish a more accurate figure on the immunized population than just counting vaccines. But the official push is that everyone needs a shot when medicine and science provide proof they are wrong. The goal should be immunity no matter how its acquired. So are they idiots or just intentional screwing up?

Dr. Fauci said their studies show that vaccinated people can have the same high viral load in their nasal passages as unvaccinated people so they are not protecting anyone as long as the viral load is high. So that protection you cite isn't generated by vaccination.

And how does that change the fact that vaccines are supposed to prevent infection and not just severe infection and the COVID vaccines don't meet that criteria? And I'm 99% certain that every child hospitalized in Florida has one or another co-morbidity or pre-existing condition that puts them at high risk.

Yesterday I was watching Fauci being interviewed on one of the Sunday morning news shows. He said a few things I found curious. I'll focus on one of them here. This is his recommendation everyone should get vaccinated to prevent a serious case of COVID. That just doesn't sound right to me, Because the messaging up until recently has been the vaccines are "safe and effective" in preventing COVID, period. No qualification about the severity of the illness which can be asymptomatic, mild, moderate, severe, critical. But when somebody gets an HIV, or Flu, or Polio vaccine the justification isn't the vaccine will prevent a severe case of the illness. They get them because they will prevent any infection, end of story. That's the purpose of a vaccine, to prevent the target illness from happening, period. But now the messaging on the COVID vaccine is that "it is intended" (his words) to prevent a severe case. But so do a host of approved "treatments" and others awaiting approval from the FDA. They prevent a severe and critical case of COVID too. So for a healthy, young adult in the low risk category it makes no medical sense to get vaccinated because it will not "prevent" COVID, according to Dr. Faucl's words and expert opinion (not my words). Because if you do get infected its almost a certainty your case will be asymptomatic or mild anyway. So the vaccine has little to no benefit but poses some unknown long term risks that matter more to young people than older one's. And even if you buy into or want to make the social responsibility argument he also said vaccinated people can have a viral load as high as un-vaccinated people so it makes no differences if you are vaxed or not regarding the potential to spread it. If the government's goal is to get the public to get the shot they are doing themselves no favors with their messaging.

But, but I've been assured Twitter does not allow mis-information. So it all must be true! Even though in my state hospitalizations are around 15% of what they were last April. And my county has not reported a death since June 8th. And the local hospital has 4 COVID patients.

Just an example that the political class is so corrupt and its so obvious that they no longer feel the need to make any effort to hide their corruption. Regardless of your social views if you support the Biden administration you support government corruption. Lying, cheating, and stealing is dragging us closer to 3rd world status.

You might want to find better role models. Given this guys resume as a defender of big and powerful corporations I am beginning to question your allegiance to the causes dear to the left. "In the last 20 years, Boutrous has carved out a practice focusing on limiting punitive damages for corporations and defending 1st Amendment rights for media companies. He has represented Ford Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler, the Wall Street Journal and Time Inc. as well as big media coalitions of which the Los Angeles Times has been a member."

The Governor is a member of the protected political class. That's how. Plain and simple. We all know what would have happened to the rest of us under similar circumstances. They are comprised of members of both parties and have no legitimacy to rule. The hypocrisy of law breakers preaching to everyone else about following the law and emergency mandates! The appropriate response to them is go screw yourself. The other thing here I should have originally pointed out was the silence coming out of the MeToo movement. Where are all the women's advocates on the left that pronounced guilt on anyone "accused" of sexual misconduct but here they're out to lunch. More false outrage. Their lack of support for the victims here reveals their true intentions are social virtue signaling.

Thanks for the link. I don't think its up to contributors here to "prove' or "disprove" the validity or conclusions of some medical study by searching the world for "evidence". That's a function of the research process. One such function is "peer review". Typically when medical researchers publish a study it goes through "peer review" prior to publication. Articles in places like the New England Journal of medicine. Or posted by organizations like the Mayo Clinic or Johns Hopkins. This provides a layer of confirmation and analysis among the medical community of "experts" in the field of study. Validating study design, assumptions, conclusions, etc. Weighing the opinions of those that agree and disagree with the study's conclusions. What I don't know is what level of peer review the CDC studies have been put through? I suspect little to none but doing this would go a long way in providing more credibility to their conclusions. IMO the problem bigger than the virus is the credibility issues of government and "experts". Something a little transparency and honesty could easily solve. But that simple observations seems lost on the people in charge.

I forgot. Who was the Bills player that quit the team at halftime a few years ago. Based on the prevailing opinion on Biles is he due a lot of apologies now as I recall he was endlessly reamed out for bailing. But seriously, with Biles I wonder if the absence of family and support because of the COVID restrictions left her isolated and in some way unfocused? I have no strong opinion on her decision and in my thinking the only opinion that matters is that of her teammates.

I would recommend everyone regardless of their views to examine COVID stats found at cdc.gov rather than relying on anecdotal stories.

American socialists are mostly upper class intellectuals, children of a wealthy upbringing, unemployable college graduates, or others living off some trust fund. You won't find many people that have real jobs among their ranks. Most make a living in the imaginary world of academics or from some grant or government program. What a lot of us might refer to as moochers that get paid a lot but produce nothing of any value they could offer others in trade for pay. The fact they have no comprehension of the concepts of producing some product or having some skill that somebody else is willing to pay for in a market type economy reflects their views and ideas which seem so preposterous to those of us that need to earn a paycheck or run a business to support ourselves and our families. The core of their ideology is a belief in their moral, ethical, and intellectual superiority of themselves and their peers. This drives everything. Listening to their arguments gives a clue. As they are so smart it makes no sense to believe anyone else is capable of thinking for themselves or producing any ideas that can possibly and under no circumstances be better. As they are superior it makes sense they should decide everything about how society, politics, the economy, and culture should operate. And how everything is divided up and shared. A system where their share is bigger than everybody else's share. Questioning them merely proves how completely inferior the rest of us are to their omnipotence. The are mostly condescending and unhappy people living a joyless life.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that there is no big conspiracy or nefarious intentions with the government. Especially after this weeks crap storm performance art suggesting more panic. Like Godzilla has been seen on the outskirts of town pissed off and heading this way. Its simply a case of complete and total incompetence. And how can we possibly expect politicians that lie about everything else to tell the truth about COVID. Or health agencies that claim to base all their polices and edicts on "science" when their commands to the public aren't even supported by their own data and research while they refuse to cite just exactly what "science" supports their conclusions. What the data for the past 1 1/2 years shows me is if you are under 50 years of age and in relatively good health with no pre-existing conditions that make you "at risk" for a serious or critical COVID infection you will not die. Or require ICU care or a ventilator. As about 97% of all deaths are in people over 50 in poor health. That's what the "science" says.

The delta variant is more infectious but less lethal. This is typical of virus mutations. For example, the county I live in hasn't reported a COVID death in 48 days with the last fatality reported on June 9th. In a State with the highest death rate per capita since the outbreak began. So why is the government and the media spreading mis-information? Also, while I can't go into details because its proprietary, I work with researchers and statisticians that have developed COVID forecasting models and overall they project the latest wave will run 27 more days and before entering a steep decine in cases and that case volumes are at or near their peak right now.