thebandit27

It's not as much size as it is functional strength and anchor ability. His hand usage is good, but he too often lets bigger guys get their hands into him and disrupt his flow...and once he's disrupted, he doesn't have the functional strength to recover. I don't mean to say that he can't play LT, but rather that (a) I don't think he'll be a great LT, and (b) it's not, IMO, his best positional fit. I still see a center when I watch him. He's got everything you'd want in a center: great play recognition, technique, finds his fits in the run game, and he can pass protect like a tackle. Were he a guard, there would be times he'd struggle playing head-up against the better DTs. He's not quite athletic enough to keep up with the Donald/Cox/C. Jones types, and he's not quite stout enough to move the space-eating DTs. At center, you can hide some of that by getting him help with combo blocks more often, which will free him up to do what he does best.

He's been rock-steady, but I don't think I'd call him the best LT in football over the field of Tyron Smith, Trent Williams, Duane Brown, Joe Staley, Terron Armstead, and Jake Matthews. Also, the two players aren't all that close aside from height and weight. Bakhtiari was clearly a better athlete and stronger coming out of Colorado...and remember, I'm a Jonah guy; I think he'll be a very good NFL player. I just don't think he's a LT. https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/david-bakhtiari https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jonah-williams

That list leads me to believe that they're looking at Jonah as a LT. And if that's the case, then I'd probably be fine with any of them. Of course, that may mean that Dawkins is moving to LG.

So you're saying that positional value should rule the day? I agree--spend your top-10 pick on a QB first, and then on the $$ positions like WR, pass rusher, and cornerback. Maybe on a LT if you think the guy is elite and have the other positions covered. Nothing else belongs in the first round, let alone the top 10.

Hah! I'm listening to a presentation about process instrumentation

I see more Justin Britt than I do Zack Martin...and again, this isn't as much about the player as much as it is about the principle of not drafting a non-premium position at #9 overall. I think Jonah will play in the league for a long time. I believe his best positional fit to be center, but that he can probably be a fine guard and an adequate tackle. I feel the same way about Risner, for whatever that's worth. I also think that when you look at the free agent market and see names like Norwell, Osemele, Saffold, etc. hit the open market on an annual basis, it tells you that you don't need to be spending a high pick on those guys. I agree that having any good OLmen at a bargain price for 5 years is great, but I also think that there's no great rush to pick a guard that high. As for this draft, there are some guards that I like quite a bit. I think Lindstrom is a day 1 starter, and I think Risner could be one as well. If Cody Ford moves to OG, he could be dominant. That said, I think you'll see some day 2-3 guys like Benzschawel, McGovern, and Samia that become solid starters as well. Anyway, have to run to a meeting, but I hope you're doing well.

I have no interest in impressing anyone, so you might want to re-think what you "know" about my purpose in posting here. See above-quote post. As for Williams being easily the best guard in the class, well, I'm not so sure that's true. Personally, I think he's a far better fit at center than he is at guard. I'm not sure he's got the anchorage to hold up against the stouter DTs, nor the hand-speed to beat the Fletcher Cox-type hand-fighting quick DTs. To me, if I'm expecting an all-pro guard from a guy, he needs to be able to handle those dudes 1-on-1. As a center, he can put his exceptional technique and play-recognition to much greater use, while still relying on his neighbor to assist him in combo blocks to hide some of his athletic shortcomings.

A page ago, the same poster said that Jonah's FLOOR was a perennial all pro guard. I think perhaps that the poster is just prone to hyperbole

The OL as a whole was night and day for sure. Nelson was a big component of that, but so too was 2nd round guard-turned-tackle Braden Smith, street FA Mark Glowinski, and Ryan Kelly's return to health. And I know you recognize this, but would that OL and RB group have been the driving force of a 10-win team with Jacoby Brissett under center? No doubt guard is important, and with the growth of the interior pass rusher types like Donald, Cox, and Chris Jones, it's hardly a "just throw this sub par OT or larger-than-average center in there" affair to fill the spots. I simply don't think it's the difference-making position that would impel me to draft one in the top 10. Not when we see the best OG in football hit the open market in 2 of the last 3 offseasons.

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice. Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG. Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year. Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

I don't think that anyone really believes that his floor is perennial AP anything. The only way he makes sense at 9 is if they see him as a future LT, so maybe there's something to that

Yeah, but: j/k...I get the concern with Hollywood. Small, injury issue, name-association drama, etc. I still think he's going top-20, because in today's NFL, fast and versatile is highly sought after.

I don't mean to blast the OP here... The team already has 10 picks They aren't devoid of the on-the-roster, role-player types that are found on days 2 and 3 The team lacks genuine studs at nearly all positions Free agency has brought a LOT of depth at the 2/3 spots at most positions All of the above indicate that they should trade UP, not down. Accumulating picks can be a useful tool if a team needs to change culture and/or strengthen their depth. This team needs a few studs that other teams are forced to game plan around. I would MUCH rather see them use their top 10 pick on a stud pass rusher (either at DT or EDGE) and then package day 2/3 picks and move back into round 1 for another stud at either WR, CB, DL, or LT.

When it comes to McClouds, I'm told that... There can be only one...

Good stuff man! I'll dig into it more and give some actual thoughts, but first impression-wise: we think very much alike on this class. Glad to see my boys J-Love and Okereke getting noticed by our resident experts too. Thanks for the hard work.

Agreed. I think the approach makes a lot of sense: gather up a group of versatile linemen with starting experience, add a stud center, and let the coaches sort things out. Regarding Daboll, I think the bar may be even lower than that. If the offense is anywhere near 15th he will probably get looks.

Trayveon is my boy

Cool. That's even better. Gotta figure that between Mongo, Long, and Bodine you've got your starting RG and game day interior backup spot covered.

I definitely think that there's the potential to deal Bodine to a team that's desperate for a starting center. New Orleans, for instance, lost Unger to retirement. I'm curious about Feliciano though; the only scouting I've ever seen on him was at guard. Did he play center at the U?

Bobby Okereke Max Scharping Trayveon Williams Tanner Farmer

With you, there's no good approach, because you don't seem to employ any level of intellectual honesty. Case in point: you started a thread to discuss draft strategy. I opined regarding draft strategy, have alluded to that post at least twice, and have yet to get a response. Instead, you've gone noodles all over the Allen-is-a-bust matra that you seem to be unable to deviate from--even within your own thread; even when the very title has zero to do with the player. Why draw a comparison to any player if one that doesn't fit your narrative is invalid? The reason to compare Allen to Goff and Trubisky is multi-fold, and intuitively obvious to even a casual football observer: 1) They were both raw rookies whose performances left a lot to be desired (though it's more than fair to say that Allen was more productive than the other 2). 2) They were both drafted highly, to teams that underwent a massive offensive makeover in year 2. The Rams added Whitworth, Sullivan, Blythe, Woods, Watkins, Kupp, Everett, and Higbee in a single offseason. tThe Bears added Gabriel, Robinson, Miller, Burton, and James Daniels. This offseason, the Bills added Brown, Beasley, Gore, Kroft, Spain, Morse, Nsekhe, and a few competitors for the RG spot. 3) They both feature QBs that went on to thrive in year 2 once a creative offensive play-caller centered the offense around speedy playmakers and maximizing what the young QB does well. Is it not apparent that that's what the Bills are trying to do? I guess at this point I can't make things any clearer for you. While I'd like to believe you'll actually honor the original supposed intent of your thread, I doubt I'll get any reciprocity when it comes to discussing draft strategy...oh well, onto the next thread.

I'm not surprised by this useless, horrendous mis-characterization of my point. I already thoroughly debunked that asinine Kizer comparison a few months back, so I'm not going to bother at it again. It was dumb then, and it's still a dumb comparison now. If you didn't see an improvement from the kid when he came back from his injury then you weren't looking, and--again--I'm not surprised. Like @GunnerBill said, that unmitigated expulsion of verbal diarrhea was all centered around your main thesis that Allen is doomed. Some of us tried to make it about the actual thread title, but I noticed that my post to you about the de facto draft strategy got no response...odd, isn't it?

So he looked like a rookie? Shocking. Compare his rookie season to those of Goff and Trubisky. Skepticism is fine (and warranted for that matter); concern is, at this point, misplaced.

Yep and yep. The entire crux of the post misses the mark when it comes to a successful draft philosophy. Sure, prioritize QB above all else. Aside from that, draft for value. Vis a vis: player grade x positional value weight = draft grade.

Any GM that goes into the draft with a mentality of "we have to draft (any position other than franchise QB)" should be fired. Draft for value and all will be well. Unless you don't have a franchise QB and didn't just draft a potential franchise QB last year (and even then you can still take another). Otherwise, it's value over everything else. Highest grade at a premium position on days 1 and 2. Best players available on day 3.