metzelaars_lives

Really? I was under the impression that he dominated in college (it was the MWC after all and I watched him play a few times being a Wyoming fan) and that the concern was that he didn't go up against big enough competition in college to be taken seriously as a top ten prospect. Regardless, I didn't see enough of him in college to really scout him but I can tell you I watched him improve over the course of last season and I was very optimistic about his chances this season. My point is that enough people saw enough good things in him last season to commit to him whereas a guy like Manuel clearly did not show enough. Imagine if Carr came into this past offseason and completely regressed from his rookie year, stunk throughout training camp and the preseason, so much so that the Raiders were like "no way we can go into a season with just this guy- call Kyle Orton and give him whatever he wants..." Cause that's what happened in Buffalo.

I could be wrong but I am interpreting your post to mean that the Raiders were patient with Carr and now it's paying off, whereas the Bills were not patient enough with Manuel and somehow failed him. I want to make sure I understand what you're trying to say before I respond. But I would note that I was gushing on here this past offseason about Carr and, of course, as you can imagine, most people were exclaiming that he sucks and, naturally, they would rather have EJ Manuel. Part of talent evaluation is knowing who to draft but maybe a bigger part of it is knowing when to be patient with a guy vs. knowing when to just cut your losses. The Bills gave Manuel ample opportunities. Carr showed plenty his rookie year for Raiders fans to optimistic about.

Excellent post. I agree. As much as I came to terms with the fact that it wasn't happening for EJ before many people on this website, I also do not blame the Bills for not taking a QB in 2014 as EJ had shown enough his rookie year to warrant him getting another look. I also had or really still have no issue with the Watkins trade. He was the clear cut #1 WR in that draft and was as can't miss a prospect as there is. It's so easy for people to just sit back and say that we could've/should've just taken Beckham but Watkins was a full step higher- more on the level of a Julio Jones/AJ Green.

For one, Mario Haggan wasn't half bad. And the Cowboys passed on Romo too for whoever they took in the 7th round. Guys, every single good player who's ever existed is not an instance of the Bills making a player talent misevaluation.

Sometimes guys improve. I'm happy for Ross Cockrell but anyone second guessing the Bills for releasing a fifth string CB because he deflected a pass today- come on. This is really just a function of the Bills having better CB depth than the Steelers. Are you dissatisfied with the Bills' current starting CB's? I don't even know what people are debating here. He was buried on our depth chart. Nobody said he sucked. We actually signed him to our PS but the Steelers snagged him. I can't imagine there was even a thread about it at the time. Now he looks to be playing well for the Steelers. I think we should be able to just say "good for him" without turning it into some sort of Bills talent evaluation discussion.

How are they anything alike? Greer was really good on the Bills. Basically you're saying they're both CB's who used to be on the Bills. And Cockrell has a long ways to go before he deserves to be mentioned in the same paragraph as Jabari Greer. Yes, he has made a couple plays this year. You should've just started a thread saying that you think Cockrell could be good. He has nothing to do with Jabari Greer.

Sorry but Gisele is simply not that hot.

Prior to this season, virtually every NFL analyst would have told you that, aside from the QB position, the Bills had as talented a roster as any team in the game. Doug Whaley largely put together that roster. He has had a few very good drafts. And I would not hang the QB position on him. He tried with Manuel, I liked the pick at the time, no they should not have used another high pick on Carr or Bridgewater as Manuel actually had a mildly encouraging rookie year. I didn't really get the Cassel trade but, ehh whatever. Plus the Taylor signing looks to be a good one. Guys, Doug Whaley can only put the roster together. What happens after that is up to the coaches. Whaley put a good roster together yet they are imploding on and off the field. You tell me. Ya know, Whaley put together the team last year that went 9-7 with poor QB play pretty much throughout the season. He IMPROVED the roster going into this season yet now they are playing undisciplined football. What changed between last year and this year? Hint: it wasn't Whaley. And OP, I have been a diehard Bills fan growing up in Buffalo since my first game, week 1 1985, and that wasn't even close to the most disheartening loss I've ever seen. It was a close loss. They happen to every team, every season. A disheartening loss is when you are beating the s**t out of the Patriots all game, up by two scores with two minutes to go in their house on national television in a game no one expected you to win, you can taste the victory, you are ready for an epic celebration, all you have to do is not fumble a kickoff return and then- well yeah.

Clearly these guys have not sat down and broken down game tape with Gugny and Take You To Tasker.

Are your rankings based on rushing yards/game and sacks allowed, respectively? Because those numbers might have something to do with who the running backs were and the quarteback's ability to avoid sacks. I mean, in one of these years, you had a Drew Bledsoe with the agility of a grandpa with a walker and in another, a well past his prime Anthony Thomas as the lead back. There's a little bit of chicken and egg involved. The 2007 and, to a lesser extent, the 2008 Bills teams (before Peters left) were ELITE pass blocking units. Furthermore, are you suggesting the offensive line was responsible for derailing the careers of both Losman and Edwards and that they would have found success had the lines been better? And lastly, not sure points, yards are pertinent to offensive line play when you have guys like Peerless Price version 2.0 as your 2nd WR and that guy Campbell as your TE. At the end of the day, those units with Peters at LT, Walker at RT and the guy who quit football to become a politician at one of the guard spots were very decent offensive lines. Again, people love to just say that the offensive line has always sucked. It has not. Between 2005 and 2010, THE SKILL POSITION PLAYERS SUCKED. In 2012, the OL was one of the very best in all of football (top 5 at worst) and people would still complain and say that Fitz's sack numbers were only down because he had a magical quick release. It's as if people don't watch other teams play and realize that not every OL gives their QB ten seconds and opens up gaping holes for its RB's on every play.

They still make you guys? Uhh Losman and Edwards played with decent to good offensive lines. Egregious TBD myth #1: the Bills offensive line has always sucked.

They didn't even have Crabtree last year. I couldn't even tell you who their #2 WR was after James Jones.

So this is what it's come to with respect to the EJ conversation? Yes, he is probably better than QB's who are not currently on NFL rosters.

Roscoe Parrish was like the best PR in the NFL for a multi-year span. Goodwin aint done s**t.

This past offseason I was lambasted on here for saying that Carr came on the second half of last year and was going to be good this year and the same people you can imagine told me they'd rather have Manuel in a heartbeat. And of course these same people continue to go around asserting their opinion on who is and isn't a good quarterback even after they are wrong every time.

What? That was one of the worst teams I can remember the Bills playing in some time. If they weren't gifted 2 1/2 TD's, we would have blown them out. They did everything they possibly could to hand us that game in the second half.

Why did you put "backup" in quotes? Are you inferring that he's not really a backup? Look, the 4-5 of you left who are still taking this brave stand act as if the three turnovers in the second quarter was all he did wrong and otherwise, he looked terrific. Take those three plays out of the equation and he is still very timid, very slow in his decision making and wildly inaccurate. Just like he was last week against Cincinnati.

So EJ Manuel isn't that bad because the highest all time single game INT totals are all good QB's and he's not even on the list? That's a new one. I like it. I might be coming around. Ryan Leaf isn't on the list either. Perhaps when he gets out of prison, we should kick the proverbial tires on him. Could it be though, that good, established QB's aren't going to get yanked after throwing 4 INT's because they've earned it? For instance, if Dan Orlovsky throws 3 INT's in the first quarter, he's going to get benched. Whereas, if Tom Brady had an inexplicably bad game, he is still not getting benched. EJ Manuel would not have remained in the game long enough yesterday to throw 5 picks. Actually it's a testament to how good these guys are that they can throw so many picks in a game and not get yanked.

What in the world are you talking about? Me: guys, it's not happening for EJ Manuel. I am, however, optimistic about Tyrod Taylor. You: Matt Cassel also sucks? When did I defend Matt Cassel? He's not "my man." I didn't even care when they traded him to Dallas.

I just don't get it. Through three starts, Taylor was the darling of the NFL. In his previous two starts, with no McCoy or Watkins in either game, he struggled to move the football. He also made one turnover in both of those games combined and it was an insane catch by the linebacker that wasn't even a bad throw. He also moved the football quite well in the second half against the Giants and then singlehandedly won the Titans game on a sprained MCL. So through five games, he has played at a level higher than Manuel has ever played yet you are writing him off entirely and then meanwhile, after 15 games, the jury was still out on Manuel? It just makes zero sense. Ya know, last week you said something about "compare Manuel's first 15 starts with hall of famers..." Such an easily refutable argument. Yeah, said hall of famers played in an era in which 26 TD's and 15 INT's could win you an MVP. Why don't you compare Manuel's numbers to a contemporary of his like, say, Mike Glennon? Or better yet, why don't you compare Taylor's first five games with any five game stretch EJ Manuel has ever played!?!?! The only possible explanation for your stance is that Manuel was a first round pick and Taylor was a sixth round pick. Manuel had/has "the tools." Well for one, Taylor was a better college QB than Manuel in the same conference. Secondly, if Manuel was drafted in the 3rd/4th round like most projected, my guess is that you would think about him a lot differently.

You really believe this, don't you?

I'll give you credit man, you stick to your guns.

After the game against Indianapolis, I think the worst thing anyone could've possibly said about Taylor was "dude he looked pretty good." You think EJ Manuel looked pretty good against Cincinnati? I don't. I think he looked exactly like EJ Manuel. He was slow, timid and inaccurate. He threw a horrendous interception intended for Hogan. Even on a good percentage of his completions, guys had to adjust, tip the ball to themselves and make difficult catches that should've been easy. It's why yesterday surprised you and didn't surprise me. I think you could very well make an argument that Manuel's two games were the two worst games by a Bills starter this season. Especially considering how depleted the offense was vs. NYG and Ten. They each racked up garbage time yardage against NE and Cin respectively but I think Taylor looked better doing so.

I was also suspended for our exchange. Of the four people I called out in this thread, you have come the closest to saying that you were wrong. I can promise I am not taunting anybody. I just want the handful of you who held onto the dream until the very end to say that you were wrong and the majority of us were right. Meanwhile, in another thread, Gugny is saying that Manuel gives us a better chance to win against Miami than a healthy Taylor. And so it goes. So TYTT, the self-proclaimed "smartest man in the room," is on record as saying that Manuel vs. Cincinnati may have looked better than Taylor vs. Miami and if not, he definitely looked better than Taylor vs. Indianapolis? And this is the guy trying to insist he is being objective and doesn't have any sort of bias?

What? I give up man. I mean, for starters, has he ever fared as well as Taylor did against Miami THIS SEASON?