metzelaars_lives

Oh yeah? Where would you rank it?

Not to mention in Taylor's two games in which the offense couldn't get going, number one, he didn't have McCoy or Watkins, 2) he didn't make any egregious turnovers, 3) he actually won one of those games- pretty much by himself. The handful of people on here who continue to twist and turn things to make excuses for Manuel and to discredit Taylor's very, very good start to his NFL career are beyond tiresome.

Exactly. I spent 12 months delicately saying I didn't think EJ Manuel looked to me like a guy who was primed to take the next step and develop into a franchise QB and every time I did, BFFE called me a "hater" or a "troll." I was right. And now I'm being mean for insulting his intelligence. You know, Aaron Rodgers sat out three seasons and was not immediately as good as he is today. There is still plenty of room for Taylor to grow. I disagree with your premise that the game should've "slowed down for him" while he was holding a clipboard. Not gloating. And yes, thank you, I appreciate you congratulating me on the phantom flag. Ya know last week, you guys were all "if you think EJ Manuel is the reason we lost that game..." and "Oh yeah the run defense- that was EJ Manuel's fault..." Ha ha very funny. And now this week, it's "phantom flag" and "well Matt Cassel sucked too." Do you want to know what all four of those excuses have in common? None of them have anything to do with how good EJ Manuel is. You were of the mindset that Manuel was going to be a good QB in this league. You were wrong. Time to own it.

EXACTLY. This is exactly what he is saying.

I mean there ya have it folks. I told you these guys exist. I don't even know if you're serious at this point. For starters, the stuff you say about Taylor in your first paragraph- you couldn't do a better job of describing EJ Manuel! Taylor is already better at everything you alluded to after five games (don't care how many seasons he's been in the league, it means nothing) than EJ was after last week. Yet after last week, the verdict is already in on a guy who, after five games has already shown way more than Manuel has ever come close to showing- better numbers ta boot- and meanwhile, the jury was still out on a guy who completely sucks after 15 games. Why? Because Taylor was a sixth round pick and Manuel was a first round pick? That's the only logical explanation I can possibly come up with. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and Jim Druckenmiller was a 1st round pick. Who cares? If Manuel was drafted in the 3rd/4th round where he should have been, would you feel different about him? No one watching these two men play football this season could possibly deduce that Manuel is a better QB or has the potential to be a better QB- whatever you wanna say. It's an insane point of view to possess. And P.S. if we roll out Taylor, a healthy McCoy and a healthy Watkins each week, the Bills are 5-2. No doubt in my mind.

Umm, best avatar ever?

Oh like Schopp and Bulldog have it out for EJ? Yeah I know everyone hates Schopp and the Bulldog round these parts but THEY were right and YOU (not you) were wrong. They weren't "haters," they could just see what most of us have seen all along. That's it.

But he didn't! They are delusional to think that! It was not a tough decision for the coaches whatsoever. Taylor seized the job fair and square. Sorry if all some of you see is a few quarters against vanilla defenses. They practice for hours and hours for weeks and weeks!

Exactly. And there has been a surprising/disappointing amount of that around here.

Of course I support EJ! I was rooting for the Bills as loudly and passionately today as I ever have. The TD pass to Easley was a freaking dime. But when you come on this site or call into WGR and tell everyone that Manuel is an upgrade, verdict's in: Taylor sucks, EJ might still have it, etc., you are no longer thinking rationally, you are operating off of a bias. Plain and simple. And I would certainly argue that those people are not "supporting" Tyrod Taylor. I hope they come around. And Ryan L. Billz loves to point out "well Taylor sucked in the first half against NYG and Ten." OK, yes he did. Without McCoy or Watkins, but yes he did. Not sure how old you are but do you have any idea how many horrendous halves of football Jim Kelly played?? But I'll tell ya one thing- Manuel has never SNIFFED Taylor at his best. I am very much looking forward to seeing him develop further.

Calling out those in bold: I will probably make similar posts in various threads throughout the week but the EJ dreamers need to be held accountable once and for all. EJ Manuel's performance today did not at all surprise most rational, intelligent Bills fans. But no matter how much it became painstakingly obvious, for whatever reason, 15% of Bills fans kept insisting that Manuel had this magic ceiling, had only played (now) 16 games, was ruined by Marrone, "good kid, great tools..." I had to wait out a suspension last week and see Gugny post in the shoutbox that Tyrod Taylor is "terrible" (verdict's in on that one I guess) and in a thread that same day that Manuel's numbers through 15 games or whatever stack up favorably against hall of famers. Yeah guys who played in an era when 26 TD's and 15 INT's could win you MVP honors. Why don't you compare his numbers vs. a contemporary of his: Mike Glennon. Better yet, how do Tyrod Taylor's numbers (Take You to Tasker is the leader of the 'let's wait and see on EJ but verdict's in: Taylor sucks' bandwagon by the way) compare with those same players through 5 games?? I mean, the old, stale, tired arguments are so easy to refute. IT'S OVER! And the thing that bothers me about this is that I have spent so much of the last year (God knows why) telling everyone that he more than likely did not have it. And for what? It's not like I was asked to pick a number 1-10 and I took a number and Bills fan 4-ever took a number and I got lucky; this was plainly obvious to anyone who can watch and analyze a quarterback. There are two key components to being a good QB: thinking quickly and making quick, smart decisions and throwing an accurate football. He stinks at both! What in God's name did you see in this guy? I digress. I hope this just dies forever. As I've stated previously, Bills fans who still support Manuel are eerily similar to Tebow-heads (saw there's a thread for that one too). Why? Why is he such a polarizing figure? He's just a bad QB, that's IT! Go Bills and I certainly hope that the few of you who are trying to spread the 'Taylor sucks, that I know, but Manuel might still have it; hell, he might be an upgrade (WHAT?)' propaganda just quit it for good and start supporting the Bills starting QB who has had a HELL of a start to his career and may actually develop into/be the coveted franchise QB we've been waiting for lo these many years. -Metz

You can keep the change.

There you are. I'm well aware. He's looked sharp this drive (KNOCK ON WOOD TWICE).

You don't really believe that, do you?

Isn't it way more than that? I think I heard only 4-5 players on their entire roster played for another team before the Packers.

The fact that they don't plan on adding a RB with Cierre Wood going on IR is a good sign that he could play. Guess we'll see.

Ha I say this with an unblemished record of staunch heterosexuality but has anyone seen a better looking 78 year old man than Dick Lebeau?

Agreed 100%. You always see offensive holding calls when a guy is beat and then acts like he got dragged down or does that spin thing. Classic example of that today on the Henderson hold. It was not a hold but the guy had Henderson beat so it's almost an automatic holding call now. Like you said, it's a circumstantial call. Kind of like in baseball when the throw beats the runner even though the tag isn't applied and they call him out. Agreed 100%. Some rare intelligent dialogue we have going in this thread right now. Good to see for a change. Also, Robert Woods had some BEASTLY blocks today.

You just seconded my point. Look, people complain about the officiating in every sport nowadays. That would lead me to believe that those who complain are suggesting that there are other, more capable men out there in the world, maybe currently working as insurance salesman, welders, electricians, etc. who would do a better job than the guys already have- guys, mind you, who have spent there entire adult lives working as referees. Or could it be that since the advent of HD slow motion replays from every imaginable angle, it has exposed more bad calls? Calls that, again, are made in real time without the benefit of replay. Do you have any idea how hard it is to decide if it's a foul in the NBA when a guy drives the lane through a sea of people and there is marginal contact? It's impossible. But what I would suggest is that the NFL instruct its referees to err on the side of not throwing a flag when it appears to be marginal and only throw flags on no-brainer type calls.

I mean, some of those, everybody is punting but exhibit A, punting is my third option, exhibit B was a laughingstock and exhibit E, if I recall, that was a closer call. But on the first two, the man had no testicles. That was huge too. I was noting it at the time. Lazy timeouts too.

I stand by what I said. It was only a bad call in the context of us getting to see the slow motion replay. In that sense, yes it was a bad call, of course. But if you're the ref and you only see it once and it happens in a nanosecond, how the hell are you supposed to be able to tell whether or not there was helmet to helmet contact? And plus, you're moving yourself and aren't going to have a perfect angle. It is an impossible task. I don't have a solution to this one. It is a hole the NFL has dug for itself. But there aren't humans who can make that call in real time, sorry.

Agree on #12 big time. They punted on 4th and 1 in our end in the first quarter and then kicked that field goal on 4th and 1 1/2 from inside our ten when we couldn't get a first down to save our lives. Ultra ultra conservative play calling that I'm sure Schopp is calling out right now- something he likes to harp on and he's 1000% right. Those two calls are a big reason we won that football game. Whisenhunt clearly has not read the football version of money ball.

Here's the deal. It was a bad call, no doubt about it. But I don't blame the ref one bit. I blame the NFL/the system. They are coached to throw the flag for helmet to helmet contact. How in God's name are they supposed to be able to tell if there was helmet to helmet contact in real time? It's an impossible task. There don't exist these magical men sitting around somewhere who could do a better job than the refs they already have. The NFL is not as good of a product as it was ten years ago because of all the silly rules and over-scrutinization of every little move every player makes. How are the refs supposed to tell in real time if the two QB's today were yanked down by the collar or the jersey just below the collar? They don't have slow motion replay to make those calls and more often than not, they don't have the perfect angle. Anyway I'm rambling. Bottom line, if you're blaming the refs themselves, you're not seeing the bigger picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csj7vMKy4EI

If you think it's "crystal clear" that it was a forward pass by "at least a half a yard" you are simply seeing something that isn't there. But if that's what helps you sleep at night. I think inconclusive. In no way was there enough evidence to overturn the call. If it was called a forward pass on the field I think it also would have stood. But I think there would have been more of a case to overturn it if it was called a forward pass because it looks to be perfectly straight, which is a lateral.