NishP Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I was watchin pats training camp and they talk highly off him. But he was getting tourched by wes welker. Welker runs a 4.60 40 and lee runs a 4.38 so hopefully lee tourches him as well.... So that leaves either leigh bodden or shawn springs to guard T.O. And neither one of them are strong enough to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Welker is a #1?? He's not even a 1b. Why would he be covering Evans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I was watchin pats training camp and they talk highly off him. But he was getting tourched by wes welker. Welker runs a 4.60 40 and lee runs a 4.38 so hopefully lee tourches him as well.... So that leaves either leigh bodden or shawn springs to guard T.O. And neither one of them are strong enough to do that. If it was our rookie corner covering Moss you know that Bellicheat would find a way to exploit that all game. But for some reason I see DJ and Schonert not bothering to take advantage of this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I was watchin pats training camp and they talk highly off him. But he was getting tourched by wes welker. Welker runs a 4.60 40 and lee runs a 4.38 so hopefully lee tourches him as well.... So that leaves either leigh bodden or shawn springs to guard T.O. And neither one of them are strong enough to do that. Welker doesn't beat people on his speed, he beats them on his quickness. Welker is a lot quicker than Lee in a short area. That is not playing down Lee's abilities at all, Welker is a quick little som'B word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazedandConfused Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I was watchin pats training camp and they talk highly off him. But he was getting tourched by wes welker. Welker runs a 4.60 40 and lee runs a 4.38 so hopefully lee tourches him as well.... So that leaves either leigh bodden or shawn springs to guard T.O. And neither one of them are strong enough to do that. I would be quite surprised if even under the best individual performance circumstances for a rookie that his coverage role would be to cover Evans one on one straight up. The base of the Evans game is speed and simply cries out for a dt run over and under with a player marking him tight underneath thus heightening his chances that a single good fake of a stop is going to allow Evans to go and be open. If Butler looks good, then I would have little problem giving him the underneath and no he is likely gonna get fooled a couple of times by the vet but I have my deep cover guy watching him closely and ready to come over the top when my underneath guy got beat. If Butler is having problems though, I still might utilize him alot as the deep cover guy in the dt on Evans. The problem that the Bills have created though by acquiring TO is that if he is even remotely on his game he also demands a dt which marks him tightly because he can be so devastating with RAC after a quick slant. If both Evans and he require dts, it really demands a lot from opposing D as they know are allocating 4 players to the Bills base O that is forcing the opposing D to put a real premium on rushing the passer to give Edwards as little time as possible (and he will not need much if his first looks are to see if the CB on Evans is positioned to be vulnerable to the stop and go and/or the CB on TO is going to need to muscle him quick to stop the slant. This is why I argue that the Bills should put the pedal to the metal and actually go 3 WR as their base O because if Parrish is lined up in the slot the opponent has almost certainly had to assign their two strongest cover guys to watch whther Evans is stop and go or simply cutting off the pattern for an easy gain and also dueling with TO for body positioning on the slant. I am not bothered at all by complaints of lack of route discipline by Parrish because if the base O is forcing the opponents 3rd or 4th best cover guy on Parrish one on one, i would take that match up all day. The Bills are likely setting up to really push as the no-huddle seems to be our our base O. Opponents now are not only likely forced to zone up immediately reducing the pass rush to the base 4 DL, but they have no time to choose intricate stunts and run blitzes designed to take advantage of our very young OL. In fact the main choices Turk may be asked to make are when he is gonna go empty backfield and bring in Reed who simply was asked to do more than he is capable of to be a #2, but should simply chow down on LBs if he is in as our #4 WR. The alternative is likely even worse for the opposing D because with Lynch (Jackson or former starter Rhodes) in as the lone RB he now gets to face a spread D which has 5 opponents already moving backwards in pass D. This leaves our OL 5 on 4 with their blocking duties and leaves Lynch who almost never goes down with the first hit, one man to beat and then he can roll. I agree that TO is an idiot overall, but his MO in his past three stops has been that he is a great guy to all his first year and only after winning the hearts and minds of most teammates and fans he then begins to act like a legend in his own mind. The first year I am not worried much at all about TO and team cancer fears. Considering the Butler situation pretty quickly leads me to see that the individual play of an opponent is not the critical thing when considering the Evans/TO possibilities. The critical thing is how the opponents play as a team against a Bills base O that brings a bunch of weapons to bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I was watchin pats training camp and they talk highly off him. But he was getting tourched by wes welker. Welker runs a 4.60 40 and lee runs a 4.38 so hopefully lee tourches him as well.... So that leaves either leigh bodden or shawn springs to guard T.O. And neither one of them are strong enough to do that. Shawn Springs, at 6'0" and 205 pounds is one of the biggest cornerbacks in the league. He played against TO in the NFC West (Seattle vs SF), the NFC East (Washington vs Dallas) and now in the AFC East (NE vs Bflo). If there's anyone with the size and experience to neutralize Owens, it is Springs. Ask yourself this, why did the Patriots sign Springs after we signed Owens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereIsNoDog Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Shawn Springs, at 6'0" and 205 pounds is one of the biggest cornerbacks in the league. He played against TO in the NFC West (Seattle vs SF), the NFC East (Washington vs Dallas) and now in the AFC East (NE vs Bflo). If there's anyone with the size and experience to neutralize Owens, it is Springs. Ask yourself this, why did the Patriots sign Springs after we signed Owens? They didn't sign him before. And he hasn't been able to cover Owens in years. Plus he's always injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mayor of Buffalo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I was watchin pats training camp and they talk highly off him. But he was getting tourched by wes welker. Welker runs a 4.60 40 and lee runs a 4.38 so hopefully lee tourches him as well.... So that leaves either leigh bodden or shawn springs to guard T.O. And neither one of them are strong enough to do that. One of the reasons the Pats signed Springs is because he has a history of shutting T.O. down. Check your facts!! I hope your right about the rookie matching up with Evans though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereIsNoDog Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 One of the reasons the Pats signed Springs is because he has a history of shutting T.O. down. Check your facts!! I hope your right about the rookie matching up with Evans though. See above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 If it was our rookie corner covering Moss you know that Bellicheat would find a way to exploit that all game.But for some reason I see DJ and Schonert not bothering to take advantage of this at all. You're so right, man...our coaching staff sit around with their thumbs up their asses and have no clue. They don't watch film, they don't gameplan, they don't look for mismatches... Seriously, is anyone else tired of the Jauron bashing? This is a good man and a hard worker. His players respect him and they play hard for him. If you don't like his gameday decisions (I'm not crazy about them) that's fine -- but I'm just sick and tired of reading crap like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You're so right, man...our coaching staff sit around with their thumbs up their asses and have no clue. They don't watch film, they don't gameplan, they don't look for mismatches... Seriously, is anyone else tired of the Jauron bashing? This is a good man and a hard worker. His players respect him and they play hard for him. If you don't like his gameday decisions (I'm not crazy about them) that's fine -- but I'm just sick and tired of reading crap like this. you're tired of reading the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I have memories of Butler terrorizing UB in the International Bowl. He made everyone else look like they were in slo-motion. FYI, he can also play WR. Hooray for us. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You're so right, man...our coaching staff sit around with their thumbs up their asses and have no clue. They don't watch film, they don't gameplan, they don't look for mismatches... Seriously, is anyone else tired of the Jauron bashing? This is a good man and a hard worker. His players respect him and they play hard for him. If you don't like his gameday decisions (I'm not crazy about them) that's fine -- but I'm just sick and tired of reading crap like this. It's not really bashing. Just observations. Maybe our talent just absolutely sucks, but it seems like the patriots are always able to find the one weak spot and hammer the hell out of it where as the Bills seem to run the same offense and defense every week no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billistic Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Shawn Springs, at 6'0" and 205 pounds is one of the biggest cornerbacks in the league. He played against TO in the NFC West (Seattle vs SF), the NFC East (Washington vs Dallas) and now in the AFC East (NE vs Bflo). If there's anyone with the size and experience to neutralize Owens, it is Springs. Ask yourself this, why did the Patriots sign Springs after we signed Owens? Here's what Shawn Springs says about the match up with Owens: Shawn Springs on Owens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazedandConfused Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 It's not really bashing. Just observations.Maybe our talent just absolutely sucks, but it seems like the patriots are always able to find the one weak spot and hammer the hell out of it where as the Bills seem to run the same offense and defense every week no matter what. My sense is that beating the Jauron dead horse seems silly since replacing him would in essence be done by the guy who set the tone and employed the team that hired him in the first place. That's Ralph who needed to go back to Marv to help him rectify the mistakes he made when he was rushed to hire TD after mangling the Butler situation. The attacks of Jauron simply are reduced to bleating and whining unless the at least acknowledge the causation of hiring Jauron is clearly Ralph and how he has mangled relationships with good folk back to the firing of Polian. Further he clearly has inserted himself (as is his right as owner) into personnel decisions such as his demonstrable poor assessment of how much Kelly had left which forced him into his cap flaunting walkaway payment of Jimbo of a million due to his rule flaunting handshake deal. Ralph deserves total credit for keeping the Bills here when there was a lot of money to be made if he had moved or sold them. However, reality mandates that one also recognize how badly he has mangled personal relationships with good football guys and thus mangled this team. Whining about Jauron (who contractually almost certainly will not be fired as Ralph has a clear history of underpaying HCs and trying to wiggle out of contracts he rightfully owes canned HCs like Wade. Calling for Jauron's ouster without even an acknowledgment that Ralph would need to totally change his stripes in hiring a new HC is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 you're tired of reading the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! The truth being that you're a dead coke head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 One of the reasons the Pats signed Springs is because he has a history of shutting T.O. down. Check your facts!! I hope your right about the rookie matching up with Evans though. If I recall, I think TO signed just a few days BEFORE Springs. I think your argument may have some merit. Or it may just be that the Pats were in the market for a veteran CB and Springs was the best of the lot by far. But the timing of his signing being so close to TO signing with the Bills is interesting. I can see Belicheat doing that. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conch Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 See above post. The Pats sign a player simply to counter a move the Bills make? I doubt that the Pats take the Bills that seriously. C'mon, they beat us 15 straight or something, most games are blow outs, they get Brady back and they react to us signing a WR? The Pats are focused on signing players that will help them win Superbowls not beating a sub .500 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereIsNoDog Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 If I recall, I think TO signed just a few days BEFORE Springs. I think your argument may have some merit. Or it may just be that the Pats were in the market for a veteran CB and Springs was the best of the lot by far. But the timing of his signing being so close to TO signing with the Bills is interesting. I can see Belicheat doing that. GO BILLS!!! Springs visited the Patriots on March 1st, but didn't sign with them until 3 days after TO signed with the Bills. I doubt it was in reaction to the Bills signing TO, because as I said, TO has had his way with Springs over the past few years and Springs is always hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 One of the reasons the Pats signed Springs is because he has a history of shutting T.O. down. Check your facts!! I hope your right about the rookie matching up with Evans though. Don't be so high and mighty when you are factually WRONG. Springs does not shut down T.O. He has burned Springs many times, including for four TDs and 170+ yards in one game just two seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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