Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 A.A. can't hurt. It may not end up being right for you, but you may still get some good from it. A 12 step program can be awesome. But it can be hard work, because it often seems to run counter to what society drills into our heads. As has been pointed out, there are lots of good alternatives. There is even an organization called M.M., which is about moderation. And there is no reason you can't take several approaches at once. I kind of like Al-Anon, because you can still do a 12 step program, there are more chicks, and you can still drink. DO NOT do a 12 step program by yourself, without a sponsor. I'm reminded of the guy who decided to make amends (step 9) to a women he date raped in college 20 years earlier, by writing a letter of apology. She turned it over to the police, and he went to prison. A sponsor would have prevented that. Anyway, just know...that you are not alone. One more thing, A.A. really is a great organization to be involved with. Some people pretend to be alcoholics just to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 A.A. can't hurt. It may not end up being right for you, but you may still get some good from it. A 12 step program can be awesome. But it can be hard work, because it often seems to run counter to what society drills into our heads. As has been pointed out, there are lots of good alternatives. There is even an organization called M.M., which is about moderation. And there is no reason you can't take several approaches at once. I kind of like Al-Anon, because you can still do a 12 step program, there are more chicks, and you can still drink. DO NOT do a 12 step program by yourself, without a sponsor. I'm reminded of the guy who decided to make amends (step 9) to a women he date raped in college 20 years earlier, by writing a letter of apology. She turned it over to the police, and he went to prison. A sponsor would have prevented that. Anyway, just know...that you are not alone. One more thing, A.A. really is a great organization to be involved with. Some people pretend to be alcoholics just to be there. WOW! I guess he made amends! Oh, boy! Mental note: Skip Step 9! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 WOW! I guess he made amends! Oh, boy! Mental note: Skip Step 9! (9) Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. In other words, Don't try this at home, all by yourself. Or two or three heads are better than one. One of the points to all this is to use the wisdom, experience, and help from others. And besides that, making amends is not about apologizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 (9) Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. In other words, Don't try this at home, all by yourself. Or two or three heads are better than one. One of the points to all this is to use the wisdom, experience, and help from others. And besides that, making amends is not about apologizing. Ya, I know what you mean. The guy probably sobered up in jail... Yikes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Holy shiit. You know, that's what got me to quit. I was working at a restaurant in Beverly Hills. Drank like a fish every day...EVERY day. Then one day the Chef of one of our sister restaurants passes out at work, three weeks later.....dead. They all said he drank like a fish every day. Scared me straight. But 10 years later I start with this firm and I go off the wagon but relatively controlled. Friday nights the wife and I go out for happy hour sometimes it's two drinks, sometimes four but I know when to say when. Saturdays we cook and drink together sometimes we over do it and sometimes we only have two but either way it's fun and we really enjoy eachother's company . During the week...no desire. Here it is 8:30pm on Monday and it's the farthest thing from my mind. I really feel for people that have to go to meetings and have their sponsor on speed dial. That's gotta suck. It is my belief that you were a very hard drinker, but not an alcoholic. You can't scare an alcoholic straight. It's in the hard wiring - we'll drink anyway. That's why it's genetic, too - it's got a lot to do with brain chemistry. And, will power will not do it, either. It's just too powerful - you can have a mountain of evidence why not to drink (or drug, etc) like you did, and the brain shuts that off, and you still do it. For the record, going to meetings and talking to my sponsor absolutely does not suck. As somebody said above, some people who aren't even alchoholics join so they are in the group. Meetings can sometimes to be boring, but if you go to the right ones, they're usually good for some real good laughs, and you almost always come away glad you went. As for my sponsor. He's actually one of my best friends. I actually don't call him enough. Maybe once a week, but I know he'd be there if I really needed him.........But, whenever we do talk, we never even talk about alcohol - it's always about concerts, games, chicks, etc............He stopped over yesterday for about 20 minutes to pick up his tickets for the phish show and a few other concerts, and all we did for 20 minutes was laugh our heads off. Yeah, that does not suck! And, I had the same preconceived notions that it all sucked, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 It is my belief that you were a very hard drinker, but not an alcoholic. That all depends on how one defines "alcoholic". Unless it happened very recently, there really isn't one accepted definition of just about any addiction. For some, it has to do with the consequences of your drinking: Does it hurt your relationships, job, ability to make good decisions, etc... For others it has to do with the ability to control your drinking. In other words, if you always drink enough to get drunk when you drink, you are an alcoholic. I've also seen it described in terms of how often and how much you consume. But in the way I would likely define it, you are probably correct about Chef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 That all depends on how one defines "alcoholic". Unless it happened very recently, there really isn't one accepted definition of just about any addiction. For some, it has to do with the consequences of your drinking: Does it hurt your relationships, job, ability to make good decisions, etc... For others it has to do with the ability to control your drinking. In other words, if you always drink enough to get drunk when you drink, you are an alcoholic. I've also seen it described in terms of how often and how much you consume. But in the way I would likely define it, you are probably correct about Chef. If you think you are an alcoholic, chances are you are right. Your thought processes are already heading down that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 A.A. can't hurt. It may not end up being right for you, but you may still get some good from it. A 12 step program can be awesome. But it can be hard work, because it often seems to run counter to what society drills into our heads. As has been pointed out, there are lots of good alternatives. There is even an organization called M.M., which is about moderation. And there is no reason you can't take several approaches at once. I kind of like Al-Anon, because you can still do a 12 step program, there are more chicks, and you can still drink. DO NOT do a 12 step program by yourself, without a sponsor. I'm reminded of the guy who decided to make amends (step 9) to a women he date raped in college 20 years earlier, by writing a letter of apology. She turned it over to the police, and he went to prison. A sponsor would have prevented that. Anyway, just know...that you are not alone. One more thing, A.A. really is a great organization to be involved with. Some people pretend to be alcoholics just to be there. WOW! I guess he made amends! Oh, boy! Mental note: Skip Step 9! I can't believe you guys don't think he did the right thing. If he had raped your wife, sister or mother I think your ideas about his confession and the consequences would be a lot different. It took a lot of courage to do what he did. He obviously traumatized this woman so much that it wasn't a; "well thank you we'll let bygones be bygones." kinda thing. IIRC, I saw a story on this and just reading the letter made her extremely upset. It had been a crime against her that really affected her life up to, and I'm very sure, after that confession. She probably has more closure now than if he never wrote her. He's an effmo who got what he deserved and his conscience should be clearer now. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I can't believe you guys don't think he did the right thing. If he had raped your wife, sister or mother I think your ideas about his confession and the consequences would be a lot different. It took a lot of courage to do what he did. He obviously traumatized this woman so much that it wasn't a; "well thank you we'll let bygones be bygones." kinda thing. IIRC, I saw a story on this and just reading the letter made her extremely upset. It had been a crime against her that really affected her life up to, and I'm very sure, after that confession. She probably has more closure now than if he never wrote her. He's an effmo who got what he deserved and his conscience should be clearer now. JMO I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Interesting topic. I really do not consider myself an achoholic. I do not ever come home from work & crack a beer open, never drink during the week, never let it effect how I am to my son or my recently born daughter. My wife says I have a problem. She calls me a binge achoholic. See I can not just have one or two beers,(part of the reason I will never touch a beer during the work week). If I drink one beer I really have to have at least 12-15 beers. I can not stop. That is why I usually save my drinking for Saturdays & Sundays during football season. The other thing she gets mad about is often times, especially during college football season I will go down in the basement & watch the football games & drink by myself. Sometimes a friend or 2 will come over but I am at the age now where all my friends have families & we do not see each other nearly as much as we did 3, 4 or 5 years ago. My son is at an age now where(5 years old)where I will bring him down in the clubhouse(the basement) on a saturday & we will watch college football all day. We will play mini basketball down there & watch the games & have alot of fun. I know it is not the best influence on him but hey what are you going to do, it is still quality time we are spending together & he really likes it. I am not judging anybody as everybody has their demons so to speak in life. Good luck to the OP, it has got be difficult quitting. Although, from the sounds of it, I do not drink as much as you, I do not know if I could do it or not. & alot of posters, if they are really honest with themselves probably could not quit either. Imagine going to a bills tailgate & not drinking. I would rather not even go. Careful Gordio. Not being able to stop is a big sign of a problem. Alcoholism isn't limited to those that drink daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I can't believe you guys don't think he did the right thing. If he had raped your wife, sister or mother I think your ideas about his confession and the consequences would be a lot different. It took a lot of courage to do what he did. He obviously traumatized this woman so much that it wasn't a; "well thank you we'll let bygones be bygones." kinda thing. IIRC, I saw a story on this and just reading the letter made her extremely upset. It had been a crime against her that really affected her life up to, and I'm very sure, after that confession. She probably has more closure now than if he never wrote her. He's an effmo who got what he deserved and his conscience should be clearer now. JMO He did the steps program incorrectly was my only point. You should look into whether there might be a "jump to conclusions anonymous" club. But first you have to admit the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 It is my belief that you were a very hard drinker, but not an alcoholic. You can't scare an alcoholic straight. It's in the hard wiring - we'll drink anyway. That's why it's genetic, too - it's got a lot to do with brain chemistry. And, will power will not do it, either. It's just too powerful - you can have a mountain of evidence why not to drink (or drug, etc) like you did, and the brain shuts that off, and you still do it. For the record, going to meetings and talking to my sponsor absolutely does not suck. As somebody said above, some people who aren't even alchoholics join so they are in the group. Meetings can sometimes to be boring, but if you go to the right ones, they're usually good for some real good laughs, and you almost always come away glad you went. As for my sponsor. He's actually one of my best friends. I actually don't call him enough. Maybe once a week, but I know he'd be there if I really needed him.........But, whenever we do talk, we never even talk about alcohol - it's always about concerts, games, chicks, etc............He stopped over yesterday for about 20 minutes to pick up his tickets for the phish show and a few other concerts, and all we did for 20 minutes was laugh our heads off. Yeah, that does not suck! And, I had the same preconceived notions that it all sucked, too. You know you're not the first person that said seeing I was able to quit on my own I was not an alcoholic. She was in AA too. Don't take this the wrong way, but they've got you brainwashed. I drank every day, not one, not a couple but to get drunk...EVERY day. Couldn't control it. I'd stop by the liquor store (and this was after a few beers at work) and pick up a pint of vodka. Down it in the car in the garage before I walked in the house and then proceeded to drink at least a six pack more. Remember every day! But I quit cold turkey. I've got a very strong personality (no kidding) and no one was going to tell me what I couldn't do. Only I'm in charge of that...and I did it. Now you may think that seeing I'm able to drink "socially" today that proves that I'm not an alcoholic. Well let me tell you, my wife was out of town last week so I had no one to "report" to. Yeah I'm an alcoholic but currently only Friday night and Saturday. And during Bills games? I don't drink on Sundays. Work is waaaay too important for me to drink when I have to work the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 You know you're not the first person that said seeing I was able to quit on my own I was not an alcoholic. She was in AA too. Don't take this the wrong way, but they've got you brainwashed. I drank every day, not one, not a couple but to get drunk...EVERY day. Couldn't control it. I'd stop by the liquor store (and this was after a few beers at work) and pick up a pint of vodka. Down it in the car in the garage before I walked in the house and then proceeded to drink at least a six pack more. Remember every day! But I quit cold turkey. I've got a very strong personality (no kidding) and no one was going to tell me what I couldn't do. Only I'm in charge of that...and I did it. Now you may think that seeing I'm able to drink "socially" today that proves that I'm not an alcoholic. Well let me tell you, my wife was out of town last week so I had no one to "report" to. Yeah I'm an alcoholic but currently only Friday night and Saturday. And during Bills games? I don't drink on Sundays. Work is waaaay too important for me to drink when I have to work the next day. It all does to how you define "alcoholic", of course. You are obviously functional. If you are also an alcoholic, so what? If your binging on Friday and Saturday causes problems, blackouts, arrests, fights, etc. Well, then I might not say "so what?" But if the alcohol isn't negatively impacting your job, relationships, freedom, etc...I don't see it is a major issue. Unless you do, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think the test cited earlier will pretty much set forth whether you "might" be an alchoholic and is pretty much accepted. The medical definition seems to be whether or not you go through withdrawal when you try to quit. The first test seems to be too inclusive, and the second too restrictive. I figure if the wife and others think you drink too much, you black out on occassion and you haven't been able to quit or moderate on your own you probably need help. AA is fine, but there are lots of in patient and out patient programs. Admitting there is a problem is a HUGE first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 You know you're not the first person that said seeing I was able to quit on my own I was not an alcoholic. She was in AA too. Don't take this the wrong way, but they've got you brainwashed. I drank every day, not one, not a couple but to get drunk...EVERY day. Couldn't control it. I'd stop by the liquor store (and this was after a few beers at work) and pick up a pint of vodka. Down it in the car in the garage before I walked in the house and then proceeded to drink at least a six pack more. Remember every day! But I quit cold turkey. I've got a very strong personality (no kidding) and no one was going to tell me what I couldn't do. Only I'm in charge of that...and I did it. Now you may think that seeing I'm able to drink "socially" today that proves that I'm not an alcoholic. Well let me tell you, my wife was out of town last week so I had no one to "report" to. Yeah I'm an alcoholic but currently only Friday night and Saturday. And during Bills games? I don't drink on Sundays. Work is waaaay too important for me to drink when I have to work the next day. Now why would I possibly take that the wrong way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 You know you're not the first person that said seeing I was able to quit on my own I was not an alcoholic. She was in AA too. Don't take this the wrong way, but they've got you brainwashed. I drank every day, not one, not a couple but to get drunk...EVERY day. Couldn't control it. I'd stop by the liquor store (and this was after a few beers at work) and pick up a pint of vodka. Down it in the car in the garage before I walked in the house and then proceeded to drink at least a six pack more. Remember every day! But I quit cold turkey. I've got a very strong personality (no kidding) and no one was going to tell me what I couldn't do. Only I'm in charge of that...and I did it. Now you may think that seeing I'm able to drink "socially" today that proves that I'm not an alcoholic. Well let me tell you, my wife was out of town last week so I had no one to "report" to. Yeah I'm an alcoholic but currently only Friday night and Saturday. And during Bills games? I don't drink on Sundays. Work is waaaay too important for me to drink when I have to work the next day. BTW, what do you consider yourself? An alcoholic, not an alcoholic, formerly an alcoholic but no longer because you can now drink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Long story short my drinking career has reached massive levels and I couldn't handle it anymore. Started going to AA. Anyone have advice on how to stay sober? Please no wise cracks. Anything would help. Thanks. First of all - congratulations on admitting the problem. I had the misfortune of living with an alcoholic for 3-4 years. Her personality would change radically after 2-3 drinks and I spent the better part of those years fighting at nights, getting inadequate sleep etc. It was very very tough but even tougher for her to admit she had a problem. She went to rehab twice but relapsed. Then I threatened divorce and after that she had two thoroughly embarassing situations she got herself into. I pulled her parents into the picture (to that point they were oblivious to the situation). Somehow, something clicked inside her after those sequence of events. She quit (did not got to AA as it had not worked for her in the past), took up regular intense workouts and started mending things with me. We also changed our circle of friends. She did start again in extreme moderation but in these past two years we have not had a single incident. She drinks 3-4 beers a week now and alcohol is just not an important part of her life any more. She likes to say that nothing external will work until (1) one admits his/her problem and (2) Makes up her mind to solve the problem. She thinks her internal resolve is so strong that external influences don't matter any more. I know this won't work for everyone but is just a very very personal example. I know other people would have given up on her but as tough as those years were, I am happy we pulled out of them. Examples i can cite: - A distant cousin became an alcoholic at about age 45 and by age 52 he was dead of liver cirrhosis (spelling?) - a friend (a diabetic) was addicted and got into a serious accident a few years back. Quit completely but relapsed after 6 years. Last year he relapsed again. In July he went on a 2 week drinking spree where he just sat home and drank. One Sunday he was admitted to the ICU because he could not move or function. His sodium and sugar balance was so badly affected that it affected his brain. Doctors now say that he may have permanently lost some motor functions. All in all, quit or go into extreme moderation. Your life is valuable to you and to your loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 It is my belief that you were a very hard drinker, but not an alcoholic. You can't scare an alcoholic straight. It's in the hard wiring - we'll drink anyway. That's why it's genetic, too - it's got a lot to do with brain chemistry. And, will power will not do it, either. It's just too powerful - you can have a mountain of evidence why not to drink (or drug, etc) like you did, and the brain shuts that off, and you still do it. For the record, going to meetings and talking to my sponsor absolutely does not suck. As somebody said above, some people who aren't even alchoholics join so they are in the group. Meetings can sometimes to be boring, but if you go to the right ones, they're usually good for some real good laughs, and you almost always come away glad you went. As for my sponsor. He's actually one of my best friends. I actually don't call him enough. Maybe once a week, but I know he'd be there if I really needed him.........But, whenever we do talk, we never even talk about alcohol - it's always about concerts, games, chicks, etc............He stopped over yesterday for about 20 minutes to pick up his tickets for the phish show and a few other concerts, and all we did for 20 minutes was laugh our heads off. Yeah, that does not suck! And, I had the same preconceived notions that it all sucked, too. I believe the same things it too... Yet, my father being an alcoholic finally cleaned himself up when my mother came down with ovarian cancer and then died 6 years later in 1999. Believe it or not, he didn't drink the whole 1970's when his doctors told him simply: "That he couldn't." Then he had a new doctor in the early 1980's when he went away from the VA and to my mother's health insurance doctor that she had. You know what he told my father not knowing his past: "You can drink socially, I see no problem in that." WTF?? Then the problems began all over agin until 1993 when my mother got cancer... He quit smoking and drinking cold turkey! Hasn't had drop since! What I am saying is, it is all how you channel too... I may have the tendency... Yet, I rarely drink and never go over-board, knowing in the back of my mind I may be pre-disposed. I DO CHANNEL IT IMO in more OCD behavior, which I guess is the lesser of two evils?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Now why would I possibly take that the wrong way? True...there's really only one way to take that. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 BTW, what do you consider yourself? An alcoholic, not an alcoholic, formerly an alcoholic but no longer because you can now drink? I consider myself a patient alcoholic. Friday comes around very quickly. Day after tomorrow already. !@#$ yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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