Tim Graham defends the Patriots claim to

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/31/Sports/S...p_Broncos.shtml

Tim a more relevant argument would be how they cheated the salary cap the years they won the superbowl, or how the every steeler and his mother was juiced up in the 70's (and possibly even today)

[TimGraham]

Lol I know I'm ripping on my own team by doing this but, if its the North American continent we're talking about there are tons of Pats fans in Nicaragua

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02142008/news/...gua/photo01.jpg

 

I thought that was funny as well.

 

 

Patriots become Managua’s new favorite sports team

 

By Tim Graham, Palm Beach Post | Sunday, February 3, 2008, 10:53 PM

 

 

Don’t feel blue, Patriots fans. Your team is about to become the second and third worlds’ most popular team.

 

Scores of folks in Nicaragua and Romania soon will be decked out in Patriots gear, making them the greatest sports stars since Alexis Arguello and Nadia Comaneci.

 

That’s right, all of those T-shirts and hats labeling the Patriots champions soon will be sent around the world to clothe the poor.

 

So the Patriots don’t get to move into Mercury Morris’ neighborhood, but they are welcome on skid row.

 

Rather than destroy it, the NFL since 1994 has donated the officially licensed apparel of the losing Super Bowl team to other countries — because there’s no way league officials would want to see their obsolete merchandise walking the streets of New York.

 

This is an admirable project the NFL joins with World Vision.

 

The losing Super Bowl team’s apparel is immediately shipped each year to the World Vision Gifts-in-Kind Distribution Center in Pittsburgh, where it’s then sorted and sent around the world to children and families who desperately need it.

 

A World Vision press release stated Reebok, Dick’s Sporting Goods and The Sports Authority last year contributed about $2.5 million in T-shirts, sweatshirts, hats and other clothing from teams that advanced in the playoffs but didn’t either win their conference or the championship.

 

On a related note, there has been no word on what the Patriots intend to do with the “19-0” and “19-0 The Perfect Season” trademarks they applied for.

 

But the New York Post stands to make a few bucks off the “18-1” trademark they applied for in response to what the paper perceived as Patriots arrogance.

[TimGraham]

Tim a more relevant argument would be how they cheated the salary cap the years they won the superbowl, or how the every steeler and his mother was juiced up in the 70's (and possibly even today)

 

I'm not one to refute a whiner by countering with more whines.

 

I just mentioned the Broncos because I think it's equally ridiculous.

[The Dean]

I'm not one to refute a whiner by countering with more whines.

 

 

Unless it involves the Broncos? Oh, that's right, they weren't winners, last year. I guess they are fair game, then.

 

[TimGraham]

Unless it involves the Broncos? Oh, that's right, they weren't winners, last year. I guess they are fair game, then.

 

 

I edited above to clarify.

 

My point is, teams cheat. It's common. Baseball (scuffing the ball, stealing signals, corking bats), basketball (traveling, tugging on jerseys, flopping), hockey (curved sticks, oversized goalie pads) ...

 

To whine about it is unbecoming.

 

Where's the petition to get Gaylord Perry kicked out of the Hall of Fame?

[The Dean]

I edited above.

 

 

[TimGraham]

 

I edited above again. I have to cut that out.

[McD]

I didn't mention cheating in my America's Team story. So the only place I'm implying it is in your mind.

 

And, obviously, they weren't better at cheating. They got caught.

 

I'm not denying the Patriots broke the rules. But it didn't make them champions.

 

I never said you mentioned it in your AT story, but you mentioned it in your posts here many times. You said what they did was illegal (CHEATING), and therefore I mentioned that they were just better cheaters than anyone else. Yeah they got caught, but before that they seemed to use the info they garnered from the illegal activities better than everyone else.

[Mr. WEO]

Why would I need to make excuses for the Patriots?

 

Isn't it possible that I have come to an objective conclusion without being influenced by the team I root for?

NO!!! Not here.

 

 

Tim---you've totally exposed yourself as a Pats fan--it simply cannot be otherwise. Busted! You've fallen right into VOR's trap.

 

In order for things to be right in his "mind", anyone who says things such as you have must be a Pats fan---to even consider the alternative (that, of course, you are actually a Bills fan) makes his world crumble like a house of cards. It's the pope vs. Galileo.

 

By even mentioning what you have, you are "defending" the Pats.

 

And so on.....

[TimGraham]

I never said you mentioned it in your AT story, but you mentioned it in your posts here many times. You said what they did was illegal (CHEATING), and therefore I mentioned that they were just better cheaters than anyone else. Yeah they got caught, but before that they seemed to use the info they garnered from the illegal activities better than everyone else.

 

Perhaps when they played a team a second time. But I think that then falls at least partially on the opposing coach. You're supposed to change your defensive signals from game to game.

 

When the Patriots beat the Steelers in the 2001 AFC title game, they hadn't played them before under Belichick.

[Mr. WEO]

Perhaps when they played a team a second time. But I think that then falls at least partially on the opposing coach. You're supposed to change your defensive signals from game to game.

 

When the Patriots beat the Steelers in the 2001 AFC title game, they hadn't played them before under Belichick.

Wellington Mara, on this very topic, said as much about 30 years ago--to paraphrase "you don't need new rules, you need new signals."

[C.Biscuit97]

I didn't mention cheating in my America's Team story. So the only place I'm implying it is in your mind.

 

And, obviously, they weren't better at cheating. They got caught.

 

I'm not denying the Patriots broke the rules. But it didn't make them champions.

 

 

I respect your writing but I completely disagree with this. You can't make this statement with a 100% certainty. The Rams were a far superior team and the Pats* using illegal taping barely beat them by a last second field goal. Who knows how many other games were affected by their cheating? IMO, their titles are all tainted. It's interesting that the Pats* haven't won any titles since their illegal taping was discovered.

 

The Pats* are America's team like Lindsay Lohan is America's sweetheart

[Dan]

I edited above to clarify.

 

My point is, teams cheat. It's common. Baseball (scuffing the ball, stealing signals, corking bats), basketball (traveling, tugging on jerseys, flopping), hockey (curved sticks, oversized goalie pads) ...

 

To whine about it is unbecoming.

 

Where's the petition to get Gaylord Perry kicked out of the Hall of Fame?

My biggest problem with the whole spygate thing was the was the NFL handled it. There was a very cursory investigation, complete disposal of all evidence, and utter dismissal of the entire situation. IMO, questions like: How many other teams actually do it? How beneficial was/is it? How extensive was the Pats* use of these cameras/tapes? What other methods of cheating were/are going on (stealing audio)? They taped games and possibly practices, but to what end? Who viewed the tapes? What did they do with the information? How did it cost the team? Just to name a few.

 

Again IMO, the NFL did a great job in covering this up and completely silencing everyone on it. I guess if you're preserving the integrity of the league then they can call it job well done. But, the bottom line for myself is that we have very little information on the whole situation to draw many informed conclusions. I've repeatedly heard "all teams cheat" and "it didn't give them any competitive advantage". OK... fine. But, I've never seen any proof of other teams cheating nor have a seen any investigative reporting on exactly how they used this information and what they did or did not gain from it.

 

If I may ponder a small bit, but why would anyone spend money and time for multiple years, breaking known NFL rules, and not get anything in return?

[TimGraham]

I respect your writing but I completely disagree with this. You can't make this statement with a 100% certainty. The Rams were a far superior team and the Pats* using illegal taping barely beat them by a last second field goal. Who knows how many other games were affected by their cheating? IMO, their titles are all tainted. It's interesting that the Pats* haven't won any titles since their illegal taping was discovered.

 

The Pats* are America's team like Lindsay Lohan is America's sweetheart

 

That far superior team beat the Patriots by a touchdown in the regular season. It was Tom Brady's eighth NFL start.

 

The Patriots had only 267 yards of total offense in the Super Bowl.

 

The Patriots' defense won the Super Bowl, holding the Rams to 17 points.

[TimGraham]

My biggest problem with the whole spygate thing was the was the NFL handled it. There was a very cursory investigation, complete disposal of all evidence, and utter dismissal of the entire situation. IMO, questions like: How many other teams actually do it? How beneficial was/is it? How extensive was the Pats* use of these cameras/tapes? What other methods of cheating were/are going on (stealing audio)? They taped games and possibly practices, but to what end? Who viewed the tapes? What did they do with the information? How did it cost the team? Just to name a few.

 

Again IMO, the NFL did a great job in covering this up and completely silencing everyone on it. I guess if you're preserving the integrity of the league then they can call it job well done. But, the bottom line for myself is that we have very little information on the whole situation to draw many informed conclusions. I've repeatedly heard "all teams cheat" and "it didn't give them any competitive advantage". OK... fine. But, I've never seen any proof of other teams cheating nor have a seen any investigative reporting on exactly how they used this information and what they did or did not gain from it.

 

If I may ponder a small bit, but why would anyone spend money and time for multiple years, breaking known NFL rules, and not get anything in return?

 

I agree. The NFL handled it poorly and left the appearance that something sinister transpired.

 

But when the opposing coaches (Cowher, Edwards, et al) and analysts (Jimmy Johnson, Mike Ditka) no longer employed by the NFL say it wasn't significant, I have to believe them. After all, they'd have the biggest beef.

[McD]

Perhaps when they played a team a second time. But I think that then falls at least partially on the opposing coach. You're supposed to change your defensive signals from game to game.

 

When the Patriots beat the Steelers in the 2001 AFC title game, they hadn't played them before under Belichick.

 

I see you've mentioned a few times that "whining" about any of this illgal activity (cheating) by the Pats is "unbecoming". All I can say there is that's a typical statement from a fan of the accused. Why is it "whining" if the other 31 franchises, and their fans, got jobbed by 1 franchise and its "deep pocketed, evidently influential owner"?

 

The whole Spygate scandal is a joke. Why did all of the evidence just get tossed? I mean do us a favor and answer unbiased on this (I can hear you chuckling how you got one over on everyone already).

 

Just so you know...I think the Pats have done a great job of running their team, collecting/developing talent etc, but the added scandals have, in fact, soured me on all of their accomplishments.

[McD]

That far superior team beat the Patriots by a touchdown in the regular season. It was Tom Brady's eighth NFL start.

 

The Patriots had only 267 yards of total offense in the Super Bowl.

 

The Patriots' defense won the Super Bowl, holding the Rams to 17 points.

 

Easy to do when you know what play the other team is going to run.....

[McD]

I agree. The NFL handled it poorly and left the appearance that something sinister transpired.

 

But when the opposing coaches (Cowher, Edwards, et al) and analysts (Jimmy Johnson, Mike Ditka) no longer employed by the NFL say it wasn't significant, I have to believe them. After all, they'd have the biggest beef.

 

I hear you...they are no longer CURRENTLY employed by the NFL, but speaking out against the NFL closes all doors in the future. C'mon Tim...we're not that simplistic.

[TimGraham]

I see you've mentioned a few times that "whining" about any of this illgal activity (cheating) by the Pats is "unbecoming". All I can say there is that's a typical statement from a fan of the accused. Why is it "whining" if the other 31 franchises, and their fans, got jobbed by 1 franchise and its "deep pocketed, evidently influential owner"?

 

The whole Spygate scandal is a joke. Why did all of the evidence just get tossed? I mean do us a favor and answer unbiased on this (I can hear you chuckling how you got one over on everyone already).

 

Just so you know...I think the Pats have done a great job of running their team, collecting/developing talent etc, but the added scandals have, in fact, soured me on all of their accomplishments.

 

No, I'm not a fan of the accused. Never have been.

 

I have no attachment.

 

As an objective observer, I see people complaining about Spygate as whining.

[TimGraham]

Easy to do when you know what play the other team is going to run.....

 

Now I can see why you're so upset. You don't deal in facts.

 

How can stealing the Rams' defensive signals tell you what plays the Rams are running?

 

Do you even know what rules the Patriots broke? I can only assume you don't.