Mark Vader Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 a VERY interesting twist to this story is this:http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/...ller/index.html apparently, Dr Tiller has been a regular topic (target) on Bill O'Reily's show for a couple years now. Wow, what a journalist this Gabriel Winant is. He uses this murder of a doctor as an excuse to bash Bill O'Reilly. Because that's what journalism is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Actually as a Catholic I'm against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and the health of the mother. You gotta go to hell if you make that choice. However it is still the woman's choice. I just don't think the government has any involvement in the choice that the woman makes. So...I'm anti-abortion (in the go to hell do not pass go sense.) and pro life (in keep the government out of my uterus sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Wow, what a journalist this Gabriel Winant is. He uses this murder of a doctor as an excuse to bash Bill O'Reilly. Because that's what journalism is all about. ...and now youre bashing Mr Winant. see what a horrible distraction this bashing becomes, we're not discussing the real topic at hand here. just scoffing at others and pointing fingers. (see reason #43897 of What is Wrong With America) i dont care or agree or disagree with Winant. It's irrelevant. So dont bother bringing it up. again, the point i found interesting was that Dr. Tiller was a "high profile" abortion doctor. that changes the story a bit. it doesnt matter who made him high profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Tigre Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Actually as a Catholic I'm against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and the health of the mother. You gotta go to hell if you make that choice. However it is still the woman's choice. I just don't think the government has any involvement in the choice that the woman makes. So...I'm anti-abortion (in the go to hell do not pass go sense.) and pro life (in keep the government out of my uterus sense). I'm also Catholic,and I'm really not sure where I stand,politically,on this issue. Is it a sin for a woman who's been raped to take a morning after pill hours after the attack? That's a tough question,but I lean towards no. How about the rare cases where a womans life is really threatened by carrying a baby full term? Should the life of the fetus be more important than the life of the mother? What if that woman is your daughter. How would you feel about it then? I just don't know. With all the variables involved in this issue,the older I get the more I question why the government should play any role in such a private and painful decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Actually as a Catholic I'm against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and the health of the mother. You gotta go to hell if you make that choice. However it is still the woman's choice. I just don't think the government has any involvement in the choice that the woman makes. So...I'm anti-abortion (in the go to hell do not pass go sense.) and pro life (in keep the government out of my uterus sense). See, I believe marriage is that cut and dry. This isn't to most people. If all life is sacred, then many believe the government should step in and protect the lives of the unborn, just as they would protect you or I with legislation. Why should you be able to "kill" someone just because they're fully dependent on you? By that logic, one can off grandma because she's not wanted? The flip side is to admit that unborn life holds a lesser place? Or perhaps it's more of a question of a parent deciding what to do for their child and making a very, very difficult medical decision? Akin to "go ahead with the transplant or not?" As a Catholic, though, do you believe in penance and absolution of sin? Isn't that a "get out of hell free" card for women that have had abortions? I'm a Catholic myself, do don't take the "Get out of hell free card" comment as an attack. Personally, I have no idea what the hell should be done about it. Quite honestly, I see it either way. It's probably better for it to be legal, though. For reasons outside of the religious circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 It's not suprising this happened. Church going, religious folk are responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity in the history of planet earth. Things done in the name of "God". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Actually as a Catholic I'm against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and the health of the mother. You gotta go to hell if you make that choice. However it is still the woman's choice. I just don't think the government has any involvement in the choice that the woman makes. So...I'm anti-abortion (in the go to hell do not pass go sense.) and pro life (in keep the government out of my uterus sense). I, too, am staunchly against abortion. I've never understood the "woman's right to choose" argument...is it a woman's right to murder her baby 1 minute after it is born? Of course not, so why is it legal to kill it 5 months before it's born? Anybody who believes life begins at birth didn't pay very good attention in biology class. The morning after pill, and other things like that? Well, that's a gray area for me. I guess I consider those just another form of contraception, like a condom. Unfortunately, hell is probably not a real place, so who knows if baby murderers ever do have to face justice? By the way, I'm not condoning the murder of Tiller...not one bit...but the "good doctor" was complicit in thousands of murders during his life. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 It's not suprising this happened. Church going, religious folk are responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity in the history of planet earth. Things done in the name of "God". I'm not Captain Christianity by any stretch of the imagination, but that's a gross generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 "Army of extremists"? Never said that. more than one extremist ---> extremists. OK--didn't realize you meant only 2 extremists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm not Captain Christianity by any stretch of the imagination, but that's a gross generalization. not really. he didnt specify Christianity. so if you want to look at most of the Wars, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, Terrorism etc in history, they can almost all be traced back to religion. Christianity just being a main player in that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm not Captain Christianity by any stretch of the imagination, but that's a gross generalization. Wacko Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 ...and now youre bashing Mr Winant. see what a horrible distraction this bashing becomes, we're not discussing the real topic at hand here. just scoffing at others and pointing fingers. (see reason #43897 of What is Wrong With America) i dont care or agree or disagree with Winant. It's irrelevant. So dont bother bringing it up. again, the point i found interesting was that Dr. Tiller was a "high profile" abortion doctor. that changes the story a bit. it doesnt matter who made him high profile. You make a good point, I did get off the discussion and made a snide remark about Winant, which is not the topic at hand. At the same time the article that Mr. Winant wrote had practically nothing to do with the topic of Dr. Tiller's murder. The column was all a hit piece on Bill O'Reilly, which is absolutely pointless. I see how you found it interesting that Tiller was a high profile doctor, but you probably could have gotten that information from a different article that was not a hit piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Wacko Texas Janet Reno was Christan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Janet Reno was Christan? Not bad, considering the source. I believe kota was referring to the Branch Davidians, of course. The Branch Davidians' origins are with the Seventh-day Adventist Church...a Christian church. I don't think anyone should confuse their beliefs with mainstream Christianity, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 not really. he didnt specify Christianity. so if you want to look at most of the Wars, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, Terrorism etc in history, they can almost all be traced back to religion. Christianity just being a main player in that group. Yeah, I agree. I think the South Park otter episode kind of sums it up, though. If it wasn't religion, it would be something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 It's not suprising this happened. Church going, religious folk are responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity in the history of planet earth. Things done in the name of "God". I just ended a séance with Stalin,Pol Pot,Hitler,and chairman Mao and they assured me their motives were not based on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Actually as a Catholic I'm against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and the health of the mother. You gotta go to hell if you make that choice. However it is still the woman's choice. I just don't think the government has any involvement in the choice that the woman makes. So...I'm anti-abortion (in the go to hell do not pass go sense.) and pro life (in keep the government out of my uterus sense). That seems to be a difficult distinction for most people to make. And damn it, I hate it when we agree. Quick, say something unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I always find it completely ironic that a person who is pro-life murders someone else. Brilliant. So this has occurred to you 4 times in the past 20 years. There are tens of millions of pro-lifers, and you're going to have a handful of wack-jobs. I wish it weren't so. You're going to have some husbands kill their wives. We're talking about men who took vows to love and cherish and all that. Do you find that ironic too? I mean, hundreds if not thousands of husbands have killed their wives in the past 20 years, so surely you've taken note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 First let me say that I'm against later term abortion. My point is so many anti-abortionists get so angry at the pro-choice people and yet they don't give a flying eff about the thousands of kids in orphanages in this country. They also don't give an eff about all the unadopted American babies. Why do anti-abortionists care about a few cells and flip off the children who have been born and are in desperate need of a home? When the orphanages are empty and all of the American born babies have been adopted then they can start arguing about whether a few cells is a human or not. I'm betting that guy couldn't give an eff about any of the homeless children. It's a valid point, but it's independent of the question of whether or not abortion is moral or immoral. I'm sure there were tens of thousands of Northerners who were opposed to slavery, but could care less about giving assistance to freed slaves. We should all be the best we can be, agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 why don't these extremists kill the mothers who have voluntarily elected to terminate their own pregnancies? I'd guess that they have more sympathy for them than the abortionists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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