Anyone else concerned about the DT position?

[ans4e64]

Coaching doesn't make a difference? One of the most important elements of coaching is to treat different players differently to get the most out of them. The good coaches are masters at this, being hard on some guys and coddling others. It's very possible that the D Line coach sucked, especially considering that Jauron is the last guy who wants to fire anyone, but he did.

 

I'm not saying McCargo isn't going to suck this year, but it's easily imaginable that a different coach could get a lot more out of a player, or this particular player.

 

I never said, "coaching doesn't make a difference." Of course it does. Different coaches can get different things out of players, like skills and abilities, watching film, and different techniques. However, McCargo was never lacking in those categories, his problem was being lazy and unmotivated. All I'm saying is that I think the motivation comes more from within than from a coach. If McCargo decides from within to get motivated to want to play all out, then this coach is going to be right there to show him the right way. But, it comes from McCargo first, that's what I'm saying.

[MRW]

I never said, "coaching doesn't make a difference." Of course it does. Different coaches can get different things out of players, like skills and abilities, watching film, and different techniques. However, McCargo was never lacking in those categories, his problem was being lazy and unmotivated. All I'm saying is that I think the motivation comes more from within than from a coach. If McCargo decides from within to get motivated to want to play all out, then this coach is going to be right there to show him the right way. But, it comes from McCargo first, that's what I'm saying.

But it's certainly conceivable that there are people who might be motivated under good circumstances and quick to give up under bad circumstances, isn't it? I'm not saying it's an admirable trait, but it is possible (but not likely) that McCargo is one of those guys. Maybe if he gets coddled a bit he'll avoid "complete bust" status, even if he never turns into the guy the Bills hoped they were getting.

[ans4e64]

But it's certainly conceivable that there are people who might be motivated under good circumstances and quick to give up under bad circumstances, isn't it? I'm not saying it's an admirable trait, but it is possible (but not likely) that McCargo is one of those guys. Maybe if he gets coddled a bit he'll avoid "complete bust" status, even if he never turns into the guy the Bills hoped they were getting.

 

Of course. I'm just giving my opinion, and I'm leaning more towards McCargo as the problem then the coach being the problem. I'm sure the coach had something to do with it, I just think McCargo has more to do with it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Of course. I'm just giving my opinion, and I'm leaning more towards McCargo as the problem then the coach being the problem. I'm sure the coach had something to do with it, I just think McCargo has more to do with it.

 

I agree with that. In all likelihood, McCargo doesn't have enough inner drive to excel in the NFL. But there are a lot of instances over the years that certain coaches get more out of players, and there surely are spiteful coaches whose my-way-or-the-highway approach simply doesn't work on certain guys. There is also very little indication that Kollar was a good defensive line coach for the Bills overall.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It's very possible that the D Line coach sucked, especially considering that Jauron is the last guy who wants to fire anyone, but he did.

 

Really? I thought he took a promotion and went to Houston.

[papazoid]

Marcus Stroud is a stud....commands double teams.

 

Kyle Williams is average.....high motor.

 

Spencer Johnson is average.....better than most folks think.

 

John McCargo is a bust.....easily blocked by one guy.....turns his back often.....will NOT be on our roster by end of year.

 

YES WE ARE THIN AT DT......must add a player this year....is my top priority for next years draft.

[Kelly the Dog]

Really? I thought he took a promotion and went to Houston.

 

I thought they let him go because they didnt want him. That's what Chris Brown said when it was announced.

 

I don't know the full details but the Bills didn't fire him, you're right. Letting a guy go is the same thing IMO. I do know that the Texans gave him the faux title of Assistant Head Coach but I didn't read anywhere that the Bills didn't want him to leave. i could have missed it.

[stuckincincy]

I thought they let him go because they didnt want him. That's what Chris Brown said when it was announced.

 

I don't know the full details but the Bills didn't fire him, you're right. Letting a guy go is the same thing IMO. I do know that the Texans gave him the faux title of Assistant Head Coach but I didn't read anywhere that the Bills didn't want him to leave. i could have missed it.

 

Assistant Head Coach is anything but a faux title.

 

When you name an individual as such, other teams cannot try to lure them away while under contract - same as a HC, under pain of tampering charges.

 

Which is why ST coach Bobby April is an Assistant HC, and CIN's OL coach Paul Alexander is same.

[Kelly the Dog]

Assistant Head Coach is anything but a faux title.

 

When you name an individual as such, other teams cannot try to lure them away while under contract - same as a HC, under pain of tampering charges.

 

Which is why ST coach Bobby April is an Assistant HC, and CIN's OL coach Paul Alexander is same.

 

So other teams won't take them even though they don't assist the head coach in any different ways than they did before? In other words, a faux title?

[michaelfromgermany]

Very concerned. If Jax would take a 3 and a 5 in the 10 draft (same as they took for Stroud) for Henderson, I'd be all for that.

 

 

i would do this also in a second ! I am all over it. We would have a TOP3 DT-Tandem. This would make our whole D better.

Is Glenn Dorsey really an the Trading Block ?

I think JAX will not trade Henderson. The last rumors are 2 weeks old....

[Lurker]

Assistant Head Coach is anything but a faux title.

 

When you name an individual as such, other teams cannot try to lure them away while under contract - same as a HC, under pain of tampering charges.

 

Which is why ST coach Bobby April is an Assistant HC, and CIN's OL coach Paul Alexander is same.

I thought the assistant HC title was used in instances where guys are making lateral coaching moves...which the NFL prohibits while contracts are still in effect. I suspect it allowed Kollar to go to Houston without him actually being fired by the Bills. Win-win, since he wasn't technically sacked and the Bills are off the hook on any contract $ that may have been owed.

[ax4782]

I would be concerned, but then I realize it's tough to get much worse against the run. They ranked in the 20s last year I believe.

 

We were 14th against the run. Better than that when Schobel wasn't hurt and Kelsay wasn't getting faked out on EVERY play.

[ax4782]

Really? I thought he took a promotion and went to Houston.

 

Yes, because Houston has a great track record in acquiring top notch coaches.

[BillsVet]

I thought they let him go because they didnt want him. That's what Chris Brown said when it was announced.

 

I don't know the full details but the Bills didn't fire him, you're right. Letting a guy go is the same thing IMO. I do know that the Texans gave him the faux title of Assistant Head Coach but I didn't read anywhere that the Bills didn't want him to leave. i could have missed it.

 

IIRC, DJ and the front office didn't want to let Kollar go at all. But there's no sense in holding onto a disgruntled position coach who thinks he has a better situation to go to. Kollar had been in Buffalo for three seasons and I'm sure he thought Houston would present a better situation for him.

 

It's wrong to speculate why he wanted to leave, but Houston is an up and coming team.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It's wrong to speculate why he wanted to leave, but Houston is an up and coming team.

Why is it wrong?

 

I speculate that the position in Houston was a promotion, probably more money, had more young talent to work with, and represented more job security.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why is it wrong?

 

I speculate that the position in Houston was a promotion, probably more money, had more young talent to work with, and represented more job security.

 

Either that or he burned too many bridges and was an utter failure here.

 

FWIW, I actually agree with your speculation, especially the last two points.

[BillsVet]

Why is it wrong?

 

I speculate that the position in Houston was a promotion, probably more money, had more young talent to work with, and represented more job security.

 

Because I'm too negative for not believing that a coach would want to leave for precisely those reasons. I'm trying to be kinder and gentler in my approach.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

It seems like a little bit of both. The Bills apparently did want to keep him at first but didn't put up a fight.

Meanwhile, Jauron must find a replacement for Kollar, who spent the past three seasons directing the defensive line.

 

Kollar was under contract with the Bills, and they did not have to let him out of his deal. However, Jauron’s approach with assistant coaches is if you don’t want to stay, he generally doesn’t want to keep you. The Bills initially declined permission for the Texans to talk to Kollar, according to a league source, but then relented. The Texans presumably will be giving Kollar a pay raise, since he’s adding the title of assistant head coach, which he did not have in Buffalo.

 

Kollar spoke to reporters at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., about the move.

 

“Coach Jauron had said when we first got there that he wouldn’t hold anybody back if it was a move that you really wanted to make, and it was nice of him to give me that opportunity,” Kollar said. “They had to square it with the GM, Russ Brandon, and Ralph Wilson, and it went for quite a while. It wasn’t like it was a one-day deal. The Texans had been working on it for over a week and it finally came to be the other day.”

 

Asked why he wanted to leave for Houston, Kollar said: “I just thought it was a great opportunity to come down to be with an offense li ke they’ve got here. Hopefully — it’s always the same thing — you always want to get to the playoffs and hopefully end up making it to the Super Bowl, and I thought this would be a great opportunity.”

 

Kollar, 56, has 20 years of coaching experience in the NFL and has a strong reputation around the league. Before coming to Buffalo, he had long stints with the St. Louis Rams (five years) and Atlanta Falcons (11 years).

 

“Bill is an outstanding defensive line coach and we wish him the very best,” Jauron said in a statement released by the Bills.

 

The player who developed best under Kollar the past three years was defensive tackle Kyle Williams, had a strong season in 2008. Kollar has had more success in recent years with players who could be considered overachievers than with first-round picks. Bills defensive tackle John McCargo did not progress and never really connected with Kollar. When Kollar was in St. Louis, first-rounder Ryan Pickett flourished but first-rounders Jimmy Kennedy and Damione Lewis did not.

 

The Texans want Kollar to install a more attacking style with their four-man line. That’s how Kollar has coached for many years. Houston played more of a read-and-react style the past several seasons.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/555575.html

[Orton's Arm]

Henderson is not the solution either - he's 30. I would be very wary of banking our hopes on two DTs who are 30 and above. Since Kyle Williams is the only draft pick successfully groomed to fit into this role (assuming that McCargo really is a wash, and no amount of coaching will improve him), it is time to address this position seriously next draft.

 

For this season, if the Jags are willing to trade Henderson for a 3/4rd pick, that might not be a bad idea - one less pick that the FO will end up spending on a DB next draft! This way we have some insurance for this season and can build a system that the youngsters can come in and learn..

I agree that the guys manning the middle of the DL shouldn't be a couple of players who are on the wrong side of 30. Which is why I think a third might be a little high for Henderson.

 

There was no way were were going to fill all our holes in one draft. Our best bet is to simply live with the holes we still have, and to address them in the 2010 draft. We need to be thinking about DTs, probably an OT, an OLB, and, possibly, a pass catching threat. That last is contingent on Steve Johnson and on our recently drafted TE. We also need to re-sign McGee, so that this front office doesn't blow yet another first rounder on a DB.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

DT concerns have been halted due to the drafting of Maybin and adulation of same, as the Difference Maker.

 

Words to the contrary must be dismissed as akin to a farm animal grunting displeasure about his rations for the day. Get with the program, Labatt, and blaspheme no more.

 

 

Where do these persecution complexes come from? There isn't one issue on this board that doesn't have a substantial number of people on both sides of it. That some people disagree with you (maybe even vociferously) doesn't mean the debate has been quashed.

 

In this thread alone, five people posted before you agreeing with the original poster's worry about DT. Do a poll and I'll bet you find lots of people would like to shore up that spot. How have these concerns been halted? Who is this imaginary mob that is defining the "program"?